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Thank you for sharing. I believe I asked her about it via email several years ago and I think she said that she wasn’t actively working on it. I’m glad to hear it’s not completely shelved, fingers crossed we will have it at some point!

It's not easy for native English speakers either 😄 His writing is complex and from the late Victorian era, it's really stuffy and formal. The language of books was like that then, really different to now. It's like the Dickens book of Tarot but it's not a good beginners guide at all I think. Strangely, the language gets easier as you go through it. I think it's such a useful resource and in case anyone doesn't know, it's public domain now and you can get it online here.... https://sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/index.htm There are books of it and some with illustrations alongside the text but don't pay too much for it, the text is public now for all. I said it's such a useful resource and you can find out his intentions, references and interpretation of each card, however, it doesn't give much clarity. If that makes sense. Because he writes in allusions, metaphors and sometimes has crazy ideas, it doesn't always make sense or give clear views of his thinking. Also he wanted to keep the Golden Dawn stuff secret, as he swore to and so you have to think, what is he not going further into here? It leaves you asking more questions really but you do learn a lot. The card meanings are sometimes really short and contradictory. I feel he didn't want to go to deep but maybe explain his thought process and symbolic correspondences, he gives us his vision but we have to work out more for ourselves. It's not an easy book to just get but I do use it as a reference and look it up to understand the foundational ideas of something. It works for me by going in and out of it when I want to. She did a Q and A for another website a few years ago and someone asked her about this book! She is still working on it 😞. She has been working on it for 20 years. It's coming sometime but feels like her legacy or life's work. No date of plans of yet. One day 🙂 I don't know of any books to help with the PKT specially, but in the same area.... Eden Gray ~ Complete Guide to Tarot - Whilst PKT was his vision when his system started, some people say this book and her others are the foundation of modern tarot reading. Rachel Pollack ~ 78 Degrees of Wisdom - It really covers the connections from tarot to other systems in an easy-to-understand way. Ultimate Guide to the Rider Waite Tarot by Evelin Burger and Johannes Fiebig - If you are interested in RWS, this is so great about the symbolism. It looks at what each part of the card images means, symbol by symbol. Llewellyn's Complete Book of Tarot by Anthony Louis - It really is an encyclopedia all about tarot. A little about everything. It has card interpretations and has different sources, what Waite said, what the Golden Dawn said. The different ideas are listed together and gives a broader view of each card from a reference standpoint. I like the different correspondences all listed together, to look up. None of them replace the PKT though, but are useful alongside 🙂

Yes, that is a rabbit hole that I have only dipped my toes into a few times. I’m not sure what I think of it. Instinctively though, I don’t believe it represents Waite at his best. It has never captivated me enough to pull me in. What do you think about it?

Many Thanks. These should do for a nice plunge: https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/pkt-secret-trad-1-study-group.242100/ https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/pkt-secret-trad-2-study-group.242573/ https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/grail-mystery-rediscovered-in-tarot.106756/ Lastly, the Trinick-Waite Tarot. Got to type it in your browser, material is scarce on that one. It was what Waite used in his self-founded order after splitting from the GD.

I think it is great that we are able to discuss the RWS deck from the angle of Waite and the PKT. That is seldom done anymore. Back on the AT forum, all of this was discussed in depth over a long period of time. I thoroughly enjoyed their RWS subforum, there were so many knowledgeable people there. I believe a lot of it can still be read in the archived sections of the forum. Mary K Greer was there too, under the name Teheuti. Ahh, here it is: https://www.tarotforum.net/forums/rider-waite-smith-tarot.58/ Good old days! 😊

Happens a lot in therapy too.

Sucks when the cards give this answer but you’re the one who gotta do the explaining to the querent…

Neither do I. There's more to a crop than the ground on which it grew. Those two sources are quiet helpful in finding the divergences. Waite, especially in his later years, is something quiet different from Mathers' Golden Dawn. The Pictorial Key is interesting for it marks a passage and he dared to (How could he!?) deviate - which earned him much spite. He was an interesting fella, no doubt.

I started looking through that page, and I will say that I don’t agree with a lot of their conclusions. Especially not with the talk about how Waite saw no occult significance in the minor arcana. This is incorrect, Waite saw the suit emblems as representations of the grail hallows and they were very sacred to him. He discusses this in his book on the Holy Grail. Mary K Greer also talks about this in her lecture, she agrees that there is absolutely a deeper significance in the minor arcana, and that there is a kind of mythological storytelling in several of the images. I can’t go in depth into her findings because I don’t want to give away her intellectual property. I do believe she might have written blog posts and possibly also old AT posts about this topic, so some of it could still be available for free. I agree that the divinatory meanings for the minor arcana given in the PKT do not align with Waites visions for the cards. I suspect there was a need for such an addition in order to please the buyers of that book, so he added generic Cartomancy meanings. That does not mean that the texts for the minors are useless. In fact, the Ace of Cups (the Grail itself) holds the key to understanding all the minors (the emphasis is mine): “The waters are beneath, and thereon are water-lilies; the hand issues from the cloud, holding in its palm the cup, from which four streams are pouring; a dove, bearing in its bill a cross-marked Host, descends to place the Wafer in the Cup; the dew of water is falling on all sides. It is an intimation of that which may lie behind the Lesser Arcana.”

Welcome @silly-sybil! Happy to have you here and I hope you’ll share your experience with Italian cartomancy with us!

That’s really sad to know! I had moments I was very active in it, due to playing cards being my favourite divination method other than tarot. Thank you @fire cat pickles, Rif and Kali for all these years keeping the cartomantic lantern burning bright. Hopefully, we will still gather in other places! Alas, I feel like spaces of written discussion are disappearing in favour or image and video-centred social networks. I mean, it’s easier to film yourself blabbing than to engage coherently in a written conversation with others. Personally, I do not use social web anymore, and still keep an old-fashioned blog out of sheer obstinacy (and the fact I love writing), but still… I get sad whenever a small piece of the old web fades away…

These two links just might be helpful, too: https://auntietarot.wordpress.com/2019/02/16/waites-key-to-the-tarot-part-1-2/ Written by "someone who dunnit", reliving the Golden Dawn, that is. Highly recommended. https://benebellwen.com/tarot-readings/public-domain-tarot-books/ Here, it is the "Book T" you'd want. Along with Wirths 1889 Deck, this is what fueld the rise to heigths of the GD and relatet readers, such as Waite, Crowley and Pixie herself.

What I can say is that Mary K Greer once did a very fascinating webinar that you might like. It gives a taste of the research she’s done on Waite and the RWS deck. It is apparently still available for purchase on the global spiritual studies site: https://globalspiritualstudies.com/sp/rws-minor-arcana/ I found it helpful in my understanding of how Waite viewed the Tarot, and especially the symbolism of the minor arcana.

thank you so much for replying! that is such a shame indeed, especially since Greer is such a knowledgeable author and, I'm sure, would have done a wonderful job. but! I'm going to try and study the PKT as well. I can already tell it will be challenging, but if you say it is worth it in the end... I'm defo more motivated! so thank you again!

I believe Mary K Greer was once working on such a book, but I do not think she is actively working on it anymore. This is such a shame because I agree with you, a guide to the PKT would be a very good thing indeed. I have studied it myself, on and off over the years, taking bite sized chunks and performing a lot of Google searches to help me with the quotes that Waite has woven into the book as clues to be further explored. It is challenging but I have found it a worthy pursuit, Waite was really a very brilliant guy.

hey everyone! I hope you're doing good! for the past few months I have tried to dive deeper into Waite's original meanings for the RWS Tarot. so, of course, I decided to start by reading the Pictorial Key to the Tarot... however, I soon ran into two obstacles. first things first, I am not a native English speaker – and Waite's writing style is pretty famous for being complex. so his book is pretty hard to decipher for me in the first place. secondly, I have no knowledge of esoteric subjects such as Kabbalah, astrology, and the like. these things make it really difficult for me to grasp the contents of the PKT. but I also don't want to give up, which is the reason why I have been re-reading the PKT more carefully, annotating and researching concepts/terms I'm not familiar with as I go. however, I was wondering: does anyone know if this has been done before? is a commented and/or simplified version of the PKT already available? if not, are there any books that can come in handy as I go about simplifying the PKT? thank you so much beforehand!

Oh, that's wonderful, another art historian! And studying in Italy! I remember when Giovanna Melandri said that being the Minister of Culture in Italy felt like being the Minister of Oil in Saudi Arabia 😄. Art historical knowledge gives you a very interesting angle on the cards. Welcome to the forum!

thank you both for replying! I'm definitely looking forward to posting some more content – perhaps I could start with taking a look at the drafts I have in my Google Drive. and I'm glad to know that I'm in good company! 🫶🏻

So sad to read. I have an account there but have not written much since my English is so poor.

Welcome back @Rachelcat!

Hi crew! Happy Monday! This week will be a new historical acquisition, Tarocchi Fini Montecchi Parma 1840 CA. And since we’re back to pretty standard tarot, I’ll use the 13 spreads created for 13 of the goddesses in Modern Goddess Oracle by Ethony (so that will be this week and next). But first an interview! What is your most important characteristic? Le Diable Uh oh! It is mischievous and will lead me astray! What is your strength? La Imperatrice It is beautiful and powerful in a beautiful way. Your weakness? Reine de Spé Another strong woman. It pretends to be intelligent but isn’t a good teacher. What can you teach me? 4 Denier, Tarocchi Fini It can teach me how to hold onto my stuff, and what fine tarot really is. How can I learn it? As de Covpe By being open to love and enjoyment. What will be the outcome of our work together? La Jvstice Our work together will be a good balance of serious and fun. I will give the deck its due as a good and useful deck. Ok! We’ll see!

Welcome back @Bodhiseed 😀

Thank you @DanielJUK!

It's worth experimenting with what works for you. Like do you take cards from the top of the deck, randomly from anywhere, make piles? One way is to fan the cards out and just pick the cards you are pulled towards. The best way is the way that is right for you 🙂

I've moved this to Tarot Talk & Technique as we have permission to put it in an area for all members to see 🤗