Of Trolls, Giants and Tomtes: The John Bauer Tarot

[Mi-Shell]

I am doing my daily 3 card draws with this deck and I noticed, that I do have a much richer and deeper connection to the cards that I can connect to a specific fairy tale/ story.

they are "fleshed out" so to speak with a lot of nuances and prompts.

I have not finished my book, so more cards will feel more familiar like this. 

But I am also wondering, what/ how I will then feel about the other cards, where I do not know the background of the image?

Many do just not jive with RWS meanings and the LWB sometimes - like in the above post- make it more perplexing.

[gregory]

On 1/2/2021 at 9:21 PM, Mi-Shell said:

The cards that normally do have a bit of a realistic "bite" to them, Death for example are almost unrecognizable:

 

 

Meaning:

Reverence for the experience

The unknown is closer than you think

Transformation from one side to the other

 

What do you guys think?

♥

 

I think that's a lovely death card. Release of the soul through the door and out among the stars (the two girls could even be holding urns with ashes from a crematorium....  )

 

1 hour ago, Mi-Shell said:

I am doing my daily 3 card draws with this deck and I noticed, that I do have a much richer and deeper connection to the cards that I can connect to a specific fairy tale/ story.

they are "fleshed out" so to speak with a lot of nuances and prompts.

I have not finished my book, so more cards will feel more familiar like this. 

But I am also wondering, what/ how I will then feel about the other cards, where I do not know the background of the image?

Many do just not jive with RWS meanings and the LWB sometimes - like in the above post- make it more perplexing.

 

Read them from the images. You don't have to stick with stuff from books. Why do you need "background" - the images can speak for themselves.

Edited January 14, 2021 by gregory

[Mi-Shell]

 

These 2 Images are both excellent fits for the cards they represent.

 

The story is called "The Trolls and the youngest Tomte"

On the 10 of coins we see the wise Tjarfa Jorikson  age 500 years, tell exiting stories to his youngest - 100 year old grandson Tjovik . one of the stories is, how he, as a young boy on X- mas eve went up Foxhall Mountain to see the nasty and stupid Trolls, that live there.

See, x-mas eve is the one night a year, when the door into the mountain is open and one can sneak inside and watch the 2 Trolls,, Skimpa and Jompa, count their gold coins....

Well, what an adventure it would be, to go up there and see that, thought Tjovik - and promptly went.....

The story is loooong and convoluted, but of cause the little Tomte succeeded and managed to watch the trolls count their riches. 

That is, what the 4 of Coins is all about.

Too bad, on the card we do not see the little Tomte, but the full image shows him like John Bauer drew it:

 

To conclude the story; the little Tjovik was promptly discovered, almost got locked into the chest, but managed to escape just in time.... 

Now he will have a tale to tell to his grandkids 400 years from now ♥

 

 

 

 

[Mi-Shell]

9 minutes ago, gregory said:

 

Read them from the images. You don't have to stick with stuff from books. Why do you need "background" - the images can speak for themselves.

Hi gregory!♥

This is not about me reading Tarot!

I do not need anything for that.

But this thread

 is mainly about me discovering the stories and legends embedded in the artwork of deck and sharing my findings here.

[gregory]

Sure - but the stories don't have to match what we expect from previous knowledge of the cards. You did say: 

 

Quote

But I am also wondering, what/ how I will then feel about the other cards, where I do not know the background of the image?

 

And really - you don't need to know the story. It makes no difference if it's Princess Cottongrass as HP. It's the image that counts. If you don't think the image works for the card - that's one thing, but it really has nothing to do with whether it's Cottongrass, just that the IMAGE doesn't fit for you.

Nice to KNOW it's her - but not necessary.

[Mi-Shell]

And yet, I discovered, that dreamy little Cottongrass is not a good fit for the HP.........

 

..... comes back to the old saying that one can not un-know, what one knows........

 

Soooo will I just read the generic meaning of the RWS or other system HP?

Or will I think, "well, Cottongrass, your advice may not be the right one to listen to......"

Or, will the story of Cottongrass and the metaphors within give me the advice, to, contrary to her, not to sit around but get with the program?

 

..... all much more interesting to me then just look at the image and read into it and thereby my own intuition.

That very intuition is deepening, by having known Cottongrass and remembering - who knows, may influence another HP image in a future reading.......

 

... And not to mention all the fun I am having with the images, the stories and - talking to you!♥

 

[Moomintroll]

Hi, I apologize first my poor english😐.

I had to join the forum because that fairy tale made me think.

I don’t own that deck, perhaps I should🙂

Could it be so that the little princess is not meant to be the high priestess, she and her story only describes things that are high priestess like, an aspect of it?

Could it even be a shadow side of the high priestess archetype?

I think that the pool is maybe more like the high priestess. It is reflective, deep and mysterous. And dangerous. There might be a warning.

The picture reminds me of Narcissus. And if you know astrology it is like Neptune.

One could end up falling into the spell of the deeps, its enchanting beauty and magic, so that one is in danger of losing oneself. Losing oneself perhaps in something that is unreal and illusory?

Maybe this happens because of those traumatic experiences she has endured?

Could it be that in some packs the artwork is only about some experience or lesson with that archetype, not the archetype itself?

And it is our task to find out what that lesson is.

If we take this approach we could gain wonderful new ways to understand how the archetype might present itself in different contexts.

So one should begin to think how the archetype is in work in that situation. Maybe in a way that is not so obvious at first sight.

[Mi-Shell]

Hi @Moomintroll!

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you for posting your thoughts here♥

The idea, that the deep pool in the forest is the HP is very intriguing!

It could be the book of the unconscious wisdom we see so many HPs hold.

 

The falling into the spell of the deep  reminds me of the Moon card and the Moon aspect within the HP!

Thank you for pointing that out!

♥ 🙂

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Mi-Shell
NOT I could be but rather IT could be.... spelling mistake not picked up by my pooooter.... :(

[Moomintroll]

Hi, Mi-Shell!

Many thanks of this interesting post about this deck!

Yes, it’s true that it remainds a lot of the Moon card.

But one could also see in the card a person who is searching for self knowledge and exploring her unconscious. One could ignore the background story and read it positively. The water is like the high priestesse’s veil through which the person is seeking wisdom.

I have recently begun to think and see these archetypes of tarot more like an energy, one perhaps shouldn’t remain stuck in certain traditional images. It’s refreshing to see different angles in them.

I think also that it is enriching to study these kind of cards purely as images, and art, without strict background stories, I think that John Bauer would be happy about this, that one is able to see many layers in his art and enjoying its beauty and wisdom.

I 

 

[Wyrdkiss]

4 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

 

I have recently begun to think and see these archetypes of tarot more like an energy, one perhaps shouldn’t remain stuck in certain traditional images. It’s refreshing to see different angles in them.

I think also that it is enriching to study these kind of cards purely as images, and art, without strict background stories, I think that John Bauer would be happy about this, that one is able to see many layers in his art and enjoying its beauty and wisdom.

 

 

I fully agree with the above @Moomintroll. I couldn't of said it better.

Thank you @Mi-Shell for this post. You just rekindled  a love from my childhood.  I haven't thought of this artist in ages, and did not know there was a deck.

[gregory]

5 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

I have recently begun to think and see these archetypes of tarot more like an energy, one perhaps shouldn’t remain stuck in certain traditional images. It’s refreshing to see different angles in them.

I think also that it is enriching to study these kind of cards purely as images, and art, without strict background stories, I think that John Bauer would be happy about this, that one is able to see many layers in his art and enjoying its beauty and wisdom.

 

I couldn't agree more. And it's wonderful to see a   Moomin  here. Welcome !

[Moomintroll]

Thank you Gregory and Wyrdkiss🙂!!!

Maybe it is not allowed here to talk about astrology, but I was curious about this John Bauer and checked his astrological chart and found out that he had gemini (sun) and cancer (mercurius and venus). And his leo mars in in tight contact with neptune. And the fact that he and his family sadly drowned in an ship wreck.

This felt such a coincidence because I am gemini, cancer ascendent and my leo mars squares neptune, maybe this was the reason I was so triggered.

Hard mars neptune aspect could be problematic, because neptune is so watery and mars is fire, it may be quite difficult to be firm, stand up for oneself and keep boundaries and be focused. There may be energy leaks and escapism.

But there is also much sensitivity, imagination, spirituality and idealism. And artistic ability.

I was also thinking about his anima, the time he lived and womens role back then when many of them had to give up their power in order to fit in to the system.

Maybe this reflects the way he expresses those delicate feminine energies.

I think that he was very visionary the way how his paintings were so symbolically deep.

[Mi-Shell]

 

Ace of Wands

Here we are looking at the beginning of a quest:

Daga has decided to leave the beautiful castle of the wealthy prince to go look for her missing brother Dag. No sudden wealth, no sweet love, no sinister threads in the forest can deter her from trying to find out, what happened to him.

She is still dressed in her beautiful white gown, carries the crown offered to her and a few pieces of jewellery, the prince gave her.

We also see, that danger lurks in the dark forest, nasty trolls are already closing in. But there is also Magic afoot: The faithful tomte from her humble farm cottage is following her to watch out.

We also see a Fly Agaric/ Magic Mushroom in the foreground at the foot of the Tree.

The action-packed adventure begins.

[Mi-Shell]

 

Emperor – or not so much?

Here we are privy to how brave Daga is.

For weeks she has hiked through the forest, traded in her gown and the jewellery for information about her brother's whereabouts and has finally come to the abode of the Flying Troll of the Mountain, a sinister specimen, if there ever was one....

He has entombed her brother into a granite boulder and is now threatening to do the very same to her, iffff she not right away gives him a golden crown!

But to his utmost consternation, Daga whips out just such a crown from her travel bag and holds it under his sniffling nose.

So this nasty troll has no choice other than to let her and her brother go free.

 

To me, Daga is the Emperor here!

The bug eyed bugger on the throne certainly is not!

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Mi-Shell

[Thuisheks]

Hi @Mi-Shell 

I just recently bought this deck and I want just want to thank you for making the cards clearer. And researching the original stories with the images. I really appreciate your effort. 

Did you find that massive mistake in the Emperor's description? "He wears a dark beard and wears chainmail."

Chainmail? 

[gregory]

The lower part of his garments could well be chain mail, actually.

[Raggydoll]

47 minutes ago, gregory said:

The lower part of his garments could well be chain mail, actually.

You’re right. There’s a famous old Sami legend about the troll Stalo (the word probably originated from the old Norse for steel) who kidnaps reindeer and eats Sami people. According to the legend, Stalo wears dark metal clothes. John Bauer actually illustrated this saga, so it’s highly likely he used that same associations in his other works.
 

Here’s the original Stalo illustration 🙂

 

[Mi-Shell]

10 hours ago, Thuisheks said:

Hi @Mi-Shell 

I just recently bought this deck and I want just want to thank you for making the cards clearer. And researching the original stories with the images. I really appreciate your effort. 

Did you find that massive mistake in the Emperor's description? "He wears a dark beard and wears chainmail."

Chainmail? 

Hi @Thuisheks!

Welcome to TTM!💚

How nice to see you exploring the John Bauer Tarot! 

Yes, I also noticed the thing with the chain mail!

I had a lot of fun exploring the stories, lore and legends that gave rise to  images for this deck.

My thoughts now fill a whole booklet.

However, I saw it as prudent to not post any further musings here... 

But if you have thoughts - or questions - we could look at it together ♥ 

[gregory]

Why does anyone think they notice something "with the chain mail" ? He has a huge beard and the clothing does look like chain mail - and in the book that is very clear. MiShell - you have the book too - take a look, page 50 - in my copy anyway. That is chain mail - no question.

 

I've been steeped in those stories with his illustrations for YEARS. I used to read them to my daughters. His pictures are the best out there.

Edited January 23, 2022 by gregory

[Mi-Shell]

Hi gregory!♥

In my private notes to the Emperor I made a - kind of "off-coloured remark" about the brute, wearing a chain mail skirt to protect his..... 

On the card that is kind of difficult to see, because the image is very small but on the pic - in my book on page 150 it is better to see and it makes sense, when we are looking at good old Stalo. 

His arms however are rather bare and adorned with quite some bling.....

[Raggydoll]

7 hours ago, Mi-Shell said:

 

His arms however are rather bare and adorned with quite some bling.....

Most trolls are depicted that way here. They love gold and adorn themselves and their caves richly. And they are only half clothed because they are primal creatures - basically rock keepers 🙂

[Raggydoll]

As an aside, I think that sometimes, trolls are misunderstood 😄. They are a source of powerful magic. Our Swedish word for magic is Trolldom and to do magic is ‘Trolla’. The word “häxa” (witch) is not native to us. Our old word for that is ‘troll packa/trollkärring’ (troll hag). So trolls are intrinsically connected to magic here. 

[Thuisheks]

I feel really stupid, but because of your comments I googled 'chainmail'... and now I will just bend my head in shame and go cry in a corner. 

 

I will probably be laughing about this in a couple of days. 

[Raggydoll]

2 minutes ago, Thuisheks said:

I feel really stupid, but because of your comments I googled 'chainmail'... and now I will just bend my head in shame and go cry in a corner. 

 

I will probably be laughing about this in a couple of days. 

😁 Skip the crying and the shame, just have a good giggle and then return to hang out with us 😊

[gregory]

10 hours ago, Mi-Shell said:

Hi gregory!♥

In my private notes to the Emperor I made a - kind of "off-coloured remark" about the brute, wearing a chain mail skirt to protect his..... 

On the card that is kind of difficult to see, because the image is very small but on the pic - in my book on page 150 it is better to see and it makes sense, when we are looking at good old Stalo. 

His arms however are rather bare and adorned with quite some bling.....

 

MOST people (and trolls) wearing chain mail make sure to protect their genitals. It's the kind of thing chain mail is for - to protect. I'm not sure why protecting genitals would be of particular significance. It is also protecting his legs and thighs - and his chest, but that's under his beard. I don't see anything sexual here if that's what you are getting at. Just excess of power. Are you suggesting he's a sex offender or something ? I'm sure he isn't. Just a big scary troll. (I wouldn't see him as "good old" anything.... Just an unpleasant power-mad troll.)

 

2 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

Most trolls are depicted that way here. They love gold and adorn themselves and their caves richly. And they are only half clothed because they are primal creatures - basically rock keepers 🙂

 

Exactly this. I have read SO many books of Scandinavian folk takes - with images by others from their culture - which is very different from most. And many of them depict trolls pretty much like this

 

 

2 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

As an aside, I think that sometimes, trolls are misunderstood 😄. They are a source of powerful magic. Our Swedish word for magic is Trolldom and to do magic is ‘Trolla’. The word “häxa” (witch) is not native to us. Our old word for that is ‘troll packa/trollkärring’ (troll hag). So trolls are intrinsically connected to magic here. 

 

VERY much this. Think of the images by Kay Nielsen, which reflect this.

 

31 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

😁 Skip the crying and the shame, just have a good giggle and then return to hang out with us 😊

 

Yeah - don't worry about it. I am now trying to think what you THOUGHT you meant ! We're laughing too - but not at you !

Edited January 24, 2022 by gregory