Jodorowsky's tarot book, and a modest proposal for beginners in TdM and other pip decks

[QLA]

I bought Alejandro Jodorowsky's tarot book, which concentrates on TdM, hoping for more insight into reading my Ancient Italian Tarot. It's not TdM but it does have unillustrated minors (pips). I was not much helped. Although the book has extensive chapters on the courts and numbered cards, the vast majority of example readings in the book were trumps-only. Which seemed to confirm what I've read about TdM readers in the past - in practice, the majority of them read trumps only.

 

So this is my proposal, which I'm framing as a modest and therefore at least somewhat satirical one. If you want to begin reading TdM or other historical decks, throw away everything that isn't a trump, or a court card, or maybe an ace. That's 42 cards which is plenty to start reading with. Professional authors of TdM books don't read using numbered cards, so why should you? Including courts and aces makes for a more well-rounded reading without overstretching your memorization needs.

 

I said this was a modest/satiricial proposal rather than a serious one because I'd never follow it myself, not with my beautiful soprafino deck. But I do wonder if it is a good idea for readers less bull-headed than me.

 

Thanks,

 

QLA

[Decan]

1 hour ago, QLA said:

Which seemed to confirm what I've read about TdM readers in the past - in practice, the majority of them read trumps only.

For all I know, yes, I think you're right, a large majority use the 22 only.

[katrinka]

I've heard that Continental readers often do that. Also that they read Majors and pips separately.
But Jodorowsky DOES explain reading pips - it's done with number and suit. Who needs sample readings?

I just blogged this last night. The second paragraph links to Kaph's playing card blog and gives some book suggestions as well.

https://fatekeepson.blogspot.com/2021/09/the-rare-triumphs-tarot.html

One that I neglected to mention is Caitlin Matthews Untold Tarot - there's some helpful stuff in that one, too.
And guess what? The Thoth is a pip deck. If you're already a Thothie, you can incorporate that. Pip decks give you leeway to use your preferred reading style,

I do like to read Majors only decks - my favorites are Wirth's decks and King Kahn's Black Power Tarot - but when I have a full 78 card deck with pips, I just shuffle the whole thing up. For me, it's just playing cards with Majors. 😉

 

[QLA]

8 hours ago, katrinka said:

The Thoth is a pip deck. If you're already a Thothie, you can incorporate that.

 

lol how did you know that?

[fire cat pickles]

I'm one of the crazies who incorporates decans into the TdM pips (at times). I just don't vocalize it when reading because there is no need. It just confuses people. It can be done.

[TheLoracular]

I just finished Alejandro Jodorowsky's tarot book myself earlier in the month.  Since then, I have been practicing 3 card Major only readings without establishing what each place would represent and it has been enjoyable.  Not more or less than other kinds of readings, but it definitely does have me paying a lot more attention to directionals (how the figures are facing) and the flow of one card to another.  

But having read Yoav Ben-Dov's book immediately before Jodorowsky and comparing both of their TdM decks, side by side, as I was going through Jodorwksy's, I can say I learned so much abut the TdM pip between the two authors that doing a 40 card (pips only) or 56 card (pips + court) deck would likewise be satisfying now.

It is kind of tempting to practice some of that next.  

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, QLA said:

lol how did you know that?

 

Very simple - look at the cards. The Minors feature one Cup, two Cups, three Cups, etc.. and the same with the other suits throughout the series. There's embellishments, but no RWS-style theatrical people acting out scenes. TdM has embellishments, too. Those are pip decks.

I do suggest familiarizing yourself with Crowley before using that one, or you'll end up looking silly like Angeles Arrien. But you can see the progression of number and suit in the deck. It's rooted in the same ideas as the others mentioned, under the heavy occult wash.

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, fire cat pickles said:

I'm one of the crazies who incorporates decans into the TdM pips (at times). I just don't vocalize it when reading because there is no need. It just confuses people. It can be done.

 

That's what I'm getting at, that leeway. You can incorporate your preferred astrological methods or anything else you find enhances the reading. And if you don't do any of that, you can start with a simplified and stripped-down method. You're learning the meanings of ten numbers and four suits. That's just 14 things to learn, and you're already reading pips. Once you get that down pat, it's natural to enhance the method with more techniques.

[QLA]

2 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

Very simple - look at the cards. The Minors feature one Cup, two Cups, three Cups, etc.. and the same with the other suits throughout the series. There's embellishments, but no RWS-style theatrical people acting out scenes. TdM has embellishments, too. Those are pip decks.

I do suggest familiarizing yourself with Crowley before using that one, or you'll end up looking silly like Angeles Arrien. But you can see the progression of number and suit in the deck. It's rooted in the same ideas as the others mentioned, under the heavy occult wash.

Sorry, I meant "how did you know I was a Thothie"? Because your comment seemed to imply that I was. And I am - recovering, anyway. But you may have been speaking in general terms. 🙂

[katrinka]

I've got my psychic on! 🔮
Just kidding. I had no idea.
But you do see what I mean, don't you?

[QLA]

2 minutes ago, katrinka said:

But you do see what I mean, don't you?

Up to a point, yes. I had been using Thoth for a very long time and I have the illustrations/keywords of the minors memorized. Mostly. So my method for reading soprafino minors was just to recall the corresponding Thoth card. That was less satisfactory than I had hoped because there are some cards I blank on but even more so because it's not really the experience of reading the soprafino. I'm always back-translating from Thoth.

 

Jodorowsky I found less satisfying on the pips than I had hoped because - well let's just say there are some texts the author doesn't stand behind and learning from them isn't advisable. Like learning meditation from Crowley's Book 4. I can find no evidence that Crowley was a much of a meditator and plenty of evidence that he wasn't, both external to the book (he considers meditation "the lesser mysteries") and internal to it (he skips/deemphasizes the paramount invocation to be gentle with yourself, which is at the heart of all other meditation advice I have read), as well as experiential (having tried it, Book 4 doesn't work well and is fairly painful). Given that Jodorowsky doesn't really seem to read with the pips from the evidence of the book, I think his advice on that front is probably not the best advice one can get. Someone could teach themselves to read pips based on that chapter, just like someone could learn to meditate based on Book 4, but I'm not sure it'd be advisable.

 

Those prejudices aside, I did find a couple of specific cards that really spoke out from the Minors chapter in Jodorowsky. One was the 8 of Swords, which is one I don't recall well from Thoth. He says it's about emptiness, Buddha-like emptiness. I like that. And it fits with the visual presentation from the card. I'm going to steal it and remember it til I die. So I don't want to be all negative on the book. I'm just not completely buying one chapter.

[katrinka]

15 minutes ago, QLA said:

Up to a point, yes. I had been using Thoth for a very long time and I have the illustrations/keywords of the minors memorized. Mostly. So my method for reading soprafino minors was just to recall the corresponding Thoth card. That was less satisfactory than I had hoped because there are some cards I blank on but even more so because it's not really the experience of reading the soprafino. I'm always back-translating from Thoth.

 

I'm not a fan of doing things like that, either. If you're going to read the Thoth, it makes sense to use the Thoth. I've even seen people use RWS meanings for TdM. It sounds like a major headache.
But again, the Tarot IS a deck of playing cards. When you have a very minimally adorned pip Tarot like the Soprafino - none of the Harris-Crowley expressiveness of flames, stale swamp water, etc., just the suit symbols, you can use a playing card method with only minor - if any - adjustments:

 

And here again is the link to the playing card guy. Start here, see how it fits, and if it works for you there's more complex stuff there as well.
https://artofcartomancy.blogspot.com/p/basic-cartomancy-skills.html

 

The bonus is that it works for most pip decks, as well as good old cheapo poker cards.

 

15 minutes ago, QLA said:

Jodorowsky I found less satisfying on the pips than I had hoped because - well let's just say there are some texts the author doesn't stand behind and learning from them isn't advisable.

 

I like Jodo, but he's a tricky old coot. Often not to be taken at face value. He's the El Topo guy, after all.

For me it's more about seeing what kind of weird ideas he comes up with. Sometimes they're brilliant. Other times they're just nerts. And sometimes I can't quite tell. Then I have to think.
Sitting at his feet like a disciple is not advisable. Doing that is asking to be trolled. 🤣

 

15 minutes ago, QLA said:

Like learning meditation from Crowley's Book 4. I can find no evidence that Crowley was a much of a meditator and plenty of evidence that he wasn't, both external to the book (he considers meditation "the lesser mysteries") and internal to it (he skips/deemphasizes the paramount invocation to be gentle with yourself, which is at the heart of all other meditation advice I have read), as well as experiential (having tried it, Book 4 doesn't work well and is fairly painful).

 

My beef with Crowley is that he was a major a-hole. The animal torture stories (even if he made those up, you KNOW there's always a few nitwit followers who will try to replicate that because their Glorious Idol said he did it.) And I've read that he'd have made nice with the Nazis if they'd let him start up a magical lodge in Germany.  He was brilliant and he's required reading. And he had a gloriously wicked sense of humor. He'd have been fun at parties. But the man had a severely malfunctioning moral compass. I'm always a little on guard when I read his stuff.
 

15 minutes ago, QLA said:

Given that Jodorowsky doesn't really seem to read with the pips from the evidence of the book, I think his advice on that front is probably not the best advice one can get. Someone could teach themselves to read pips based on that chapter, just like someone could learn to meditate based on Book 4, but I'm not sure it'd be advisable.

 

It's a start. Not an advanced treatise, but Jodo sketches a good bare bones path. The rest is up to the reader.
 

15 minutes ago, QLA said:

Those prejudices aside, I did find a couple of specific cards that really spoke out from the Minors chapter in Jodorowsky. One was the 8 of Swords, which is one I don't recall well from Thoth. He says it's about emptiness, Buddha-like emptiness. I like that. And it fits with the visual presentation from the card. I'm going to steal it and remember it til I die. So I don't want to be all negative on the book. I'm just not completely buying one chapter.

 

I've learned never, ever to completely buy anything, lol.
Suppose we made a hero of the man and did everything just like he says to? We'd only succeed at becoming Fake Jodos. Better to take a more well rounded approach. 😉

[devin]

Someone pointed out to me that Way of Tarot is better viewed as a workbook, a series of exercises, rather than as a reference. This is a helpful perspective, I think.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by devin

[katrinka]

On 9/28/2021 at 7:47 AM, devin said:

Someone pointed out to me that Way of Tarot is better viewed as a workbook, a series of exercises, rather than as a reference. This is a helpful perspective, I think.

 

I agree.
Books on reading cards tend to provide the most benefit if you can actually work through them anyway.
 

On 9/28/2021 at 7:47 AM, devin said:

 

 

Yep.
And then there is this old midnight movie favorite. It's going into the spoiler for...reasons. But it's a Tarot movie, essentially.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by katrinka

[devin]

26 minutes ago, katrinka said:

And then there is this old midnight movie favorite. It's going into the spoiler for...reasons. But it's a Tarot movie, essentially.

 

And great for the kids!

[gregory]

I have to see this..... Adds to birthday list.