Rachelcat Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 Do you use astro attributions for tarot majors? Do you use the Golden Dawn ones? It must have been 20 years ago when I decided I was going to come up with my own but then gave up and went with the GD flow, even though I know it’s certainly not perfect. The moon is not the Moon, you know. And Cancer for the Chariot really makes no sense even after all this time. Not to mention the famous Justice-Strength switch. I think they went wrong by trying so hard to keep the signs in order and then sticking in the planets and elements wherever. NOW I’m trying to come up with my own system again because I have an idea that cardinal virtues should go with with cardinal signs (and archangels). With that as my base, this is where I am so far. I’m keeping the GD idea of using 12 signs + 7 planets + 4 elements = 23, making one card do double duty. (Another maybe more sensible plan would be to use 12 signs + 10 planets for an even 22.) Plus I’m pedantically using GD card names (Fortitude, Universe) instead of RWS (Strength, World). From most certain to least certain: Cardinal virtues = cardinal signs, Archangel: Fortitude = Aries (cardinal fire), Gabriel Temperance = Cancer (cardinal water), Raphael Justice = Libra (cardinal air), Michael Universe (Prudence) = Capricorn (cardinal earth), Uriel, and Earth element Judgment = Fire, Gabriel here too Pairs of planets Moon = Moon Sun = Sun Empress = Venus Emperor = Mars Hierophant = Jupiter Priestess = Saturn Magician = Mercury (unpaired) The rest are sketchy Wheel = Taurus??? (This is my leftover.) Star = Gemini?? Chariot = Leo? Hermit = Virgo Tower = Sagittarius? Fool = Aquarius? Devil = Pisces? Lovers = Water Hanged One = Air (He’s up in the air, get it?) So in tarot order: 0. Fool, Aquarius 1. Magician, Mercury 2. Priestess, Saturn 3. Empress, Venus 4. Emperor, Mars 5. Hierophant, Jupiter 6. Lovers, Water 7. Chariot, Leo 8. Fortitude, Aries 9. Hermit, Virgo 10. Wheel, Taurus 11. Justice, Libra 12. Hanged One, Air 13. Death, Scorpio 14. Temperance, Cancer 15. Devil, Pisces 16. Tower, Sagittarius 17. Star, Gemini 18. Moon, Moon 19. Sun, Sun 20. Judgment, Fire 21. Universe, Capricorn and Earth element 7½ are the same as GD. (The half is Earth element as one of two for Universe.) And this is how I spend my Sundays . . . So what do you think? Please criticize or make suggestions! And/or post your own DIY attributions!
fire cat pickles Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) Nice list! I attempted doing this years ago and drove myself crazy. In the process I ran across a table that had various authors' attributions to the Major Arcana. It may be of interest to you. It's on the last page: THE CONTINENTAL TAROTS by ChristinePayne-Towler Edited January 12, 2022 by fire cat pickles
Rachelcat Posted January 12, 2022 Author Posted January 12, 2022 I've been fine-tuning it today, but it's actually looking pretty good to me now. Not so many question marks! Thanks for the info! Just what I want to see!
fire cat pickles Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) I thought it may be of good use. Interesting to see you're not the only one with the Air/Hanged Man Capricorn/World and connection. And I'm sure you haven't see this list before, at least if you had perhaps you don't remember it in detail. There must be something to your attributions, then... Edited January 12, 2022 by fire cat pickles
_R_ Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 There are (almost) as many systems of correspondences as there are authors. Van Rijnberk provides this list in his book (in French but not difficult to decipher): Providing a convincing rationale for a full set of correspondences, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. On that note, here is an article which examines these connections and which might be of interest.
Rachelcat Posted January 14, 2022 Author Posted January 14, 2022 @_R_, thanks for even more info! It's interesting to see what others have come up with. But then we don't always know WHY they chose what they did . . . @fire cat pickles, I don't know if there's something to it really, but it's making sense to me at least for now!
Rachelcat Posted January 14, 2022 Author Posted January 14, 2022 Hi, guys! I THOUGHT I posted the above reply earlier, but I guess I forgot to hit submit! I really appreciate the information, and I've been having fun comparing and contrasting. Especially in the morning when my mind is fresh!
_R_ Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 7:33 PM, Rachelcat said: @_R_, thanks for even more info! It's interesting to see what others have come up with. You're welcome. On 1/14/2022 at 7:33 PM, Rachelcat said: But then we don't always know WHY they chose what they did . . Absolutely. Hence the importance of reading through and considering these things for oneself.
Misterei Posted October 28, 2022 Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) On 1/10/2022 at 1:44 PM, Rachelcat said: Do you use astro attributions for tarot majors? Do you use the Golden Dawn ones? [snip snip] 7½ are the same as GD. (The half is Earth element as one of two for Universe.) And this is how I spend my Sundays . . . So what do you think? Please criticize or make suggestions! And/or post your own DIY attributions! It's easy to drive yourself crazy with this stuff as another posted mentioned. I take a FLUID approach. If you want dedicated Zodiac and Planetary Trumps then the Minchiate deck is there. Meanwhile no tarot system will work 100% without "breaking" the deck. Look what happened when AE Waite made The Moon into Pisces. wtf??? Also, because I'm a Vedic Astrologer I put alot of Jyotish into my Tarot practice. Anastasia's Fluid Approach (Based on RWS / GD traditions and Vedic Astrology) Magician as Mercury and sometimes as Rahu (Caput Draconis / North Node) Priestess as Moon (sometimes) Other times Priestess is Pisces. Indian and Chinese people celebrate Lunar New Year. Indian is first new moon in Pisces. So the Lunar symbolism of Priestess as Pisces works for me as symbols of the Lunar New Year. Not to mention, Jupiter (rules Pisces) is Guru to the Gods. To me this fits Priestess' role as an advisor or guide through the mystic realms. I really hate the Moon as Pisces. Priestess as Pisces just fits better for me. Emperess as Venus is Goddess Laxmi. Perfect correlation Emperor sometimes as Aries but sometimes as Mars. As Rachelcat mentions ... there is a polarity here. Polarities in first 4 cards the Vedic way: Mercury Moon polarity symbolizes the Mind (Magican Priestess) Venus Mars polarity sybolizes sexual passions (Empress Emperor) I just leave Hierophant, Lovers, Chariot, Strength, Hermit, Wheel, Justice, Death, Temperance, Devil, Star alone. I often take Moon as Moon's Trump and Sun as Sun's Trump. Duuh. It just makes sense. I NEVER see the Moon as Pisces. Tower I take as Ketu's card more than Mars. Ketu (South Node / Caudus Draconis) is said to be a higher octave of Mars and it's a malefic disruptor ... like the Tower. Other cards also embody Ketu energy: Fool (the tarocchi and TdM beggar madman fool) and Hanged Man might also embody Ketu. Devil, Star and World (all Saturn cards) can embody Rahu which is said to be a higher octave of Saturn. I include Magician b/c Rahu is exalted in Gemini ... and also because Rahu loves tech and illusions ... just as the Magician does ... both the classy Magician of RWS and the montebank of TdM and Tarocchi. Ok ... this lengthy tome is fluid system for applying Astrology to Triunfi. Edited October 28, 2022 by Misterei
Rachelcat Posted October 29, 2022 Author Posted October 29, 2022 @Misterei, thanks for all your info. I don't know much (ok anything!) about jyotish, so this was a bit of an education. I like including the nodes. And I'm glad you saw what I did with the planets as pairs. But maybe the solution is as you said, if we want to use astrology with tarot, just use a Minchiate! Thanks again for including your background thinking!
Misterei Posted October 30, 2022 Posted October 30, 2022 I actually DO use astrology with Tarot ... especially with regard to timing questions. I often do hybrid astro-tarot readings for clients and frequently find connections between the astro chart and the tarot reading. So i do use my "fluid system" on a regular basis. I'm just getting started with Minchiate. Definitely not ready to use it for clients. I'm not even sure I'll like using it for myself ... but I was fascinated with the idea of dedicated cards for planets and signs };>
Rachelcat Posted June 19, 2023 Author Posted June 19, 2023 I'm baaack! I've been working on my own astro attributions again this weekend. I've doubled down on the list I came up with above about a year and a half ago. And expanded it to to the pips and courts. Basically, I've pointed out the links between pip numbers and planet majors, based on the tree of life. (I've totally elided earth element with earth planet. I know they're different, but I use Universe for both.) And I decided on my courts: Princesses as fixed seasons, knights mutable, queens fixed, kings cardinal. And lined them up with the element and sign majors. AND associated courts with pip numbers based on the tree pillars: Princesses with 10 and 1; knights with 6 and 9; queens with 3, 5, and 8; and kings with 2, 4, and 7. Here's a recap of the majors, and I've attached my pips and courts table, current version. Majors Astro Attributions by Rachel 2023 0. Fool, Aquarius 1. Magician, Mercury 2. Priestess, Saturn 3. Empress, Venus 4. Emperor, Mars 5. Hierophant, Jupiter 6. Lovers, Water (joining related to blending of Temperance) 7. Chariot, Leo 8. Fortitude, Aries 9. Hermit, Virgo 10. Wheel, Taurus 11. Justice, Libra 12. Hanged One, Air (punishment related to Justice) 13. Death, Scorpio 14. Temperance, Cancer 15. Devil, Pisces 16. Tower, Sagittarius 17. Star, Gemini 18. Moon, Moon 19. Sun, Sun 20. Judgment, Fire (announces Judgment related to Fortitude) 21. Universe (Prudence), Capricorn, Earth Let me know what you think, including if you think I've completely lost the plot! Rachel’s New Astro Attributions Pips and Courts 6-19-23.pdf
Misterei Posted September 5, 2023 Posted September 5, 2023 On 6/19/2023 at 9:40 AM, Rachelcat said: Majors Astro Attributions by Rachel 2023 0. Fool, Aquarius 1. Magician, Mercury 2. Priestess, Saturn 3. Empress, Venus 4. Emperor, Mars 5. Hierophant, Jupiter 6. Lovers, Water (joining related to blending of Temperance) 7. Chariot, Leo 8. Fortitude, Aries 9. Hermit, Virgo 10. Wheel, Taurus 11. Justice, Libra 12. Hanged One, Air (punishment related to Justice) 13. Death, Scorpio 14. Temperance, Cancer 15. Devil, Pisces 16. Tower, Sagittarius 17. Star, Gemini 18. Moon, Moon 19. Sun, Sun 20. Judgment, Fire (announces Judgment related to Fortitude) 21. Universe (Prudence), Capricorn, Earth @Rachelcat This is interesting. I definitely changed some things when I started applying Vedic Astrology to Tarot. Totally WITH you that Sun is Sun and Moon is Moon. Moon as Pisces always seemed daft! I also take Emperor as Mars. If Empress is Venus ... they just kinda go together. OTOH I like Lovers as Gemini ... so I don't want to give-up that one.
Rachelcat Posted September 9, 2023 Author Posted September 9, 2023 Thanks for checking in! Yes, Lovers=Gemini does make sense. The whole two as one thing. And Emperor and Empress just make sense, don't they! I've (of course) gone on to make a whole card calendar with my new attributions, including my courts and minors. Calendars are kinda my thing. And you can get the full gist of all the card attributions from it too. It's attached for the pleasure of seeing where my madness takes me these days! Rachel's Tarot Calendar 7-13-23.pdf
Misterei Posted September 9, 2023 Posted September 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Rachelcat said: ... Yes, Lovers=Gemini does make sense. The whole two as one thing. And Emperor and Empress just make sense, don't they! Rachel's Tarot Calendar 7-13-23.pdf 75.08 kB · 0 downloads Also, in Vedic astrology Gemini is a couple. Not twins. So the Lovers card is a literal depiction of the Vedic symbol. I also like Emperor Mars / Empress Venus. Empress is Goddess Laxmi and she's associated with Venus in Jyotish.
Scandinavianhermit Posted December 31, 2023 Posted December 31, 2023 I regularly switch between two systems: BASED UPON LURIANIC KABBALISTIC LETTER-CORRESPONDENCES Aleph - Air - Staffbearer Bet - Moon - Popess Gimel - Mars - Empress Dalet - Sun - Emperor He - Aries - Pope Vav - Taurus - Lover Zayin - Gemini - Chariot Chet - Cancer - Justice Tet - Leo - Hermit Yod - Virgo - Fortune's Wheel Kaph - Venus - Fortitude Lamed - Libra - The Traitor Mem - Water - (unnamed) Nun - Scorpio - Temperance Samek - Sagittarius - Devil Ayin - Capricorn - House of God Pe - Mercury - Star Tsadde - Aquarius - Moon Qoph - Pisces - Sun Resh - Saturn - Angel/Judgment Shin - Fire - Fool Tav - Jupiter - World BASED UPON THE FRENCH 19TH CENTURY SYSTEM OF ESOTERICISM Aleph - Air - Staffbearer Bet - Moon - Popess Gimel - Venus - Empress Dalet - Jupiter - Emperor He - Aries - Pope Vav - Taurus - Lover Zayin - Gemini - Chariot Chet - Cancer - Justice Tet - Leo - Hermit Yod - Virgo - Fortune's Wheel Kaph - Mars - Fortitude Lamed - Libra - The Traitor Mem - Water - (unnamed) Nun - Scorpio - Temperance Samek - Sagittarius - Devil Ayin - Capricorn - House of God Pe - Mercury - Star Tsadde - Aquarius - Moon Qoph - Pisces - Sun Resh - Saturn - Angel/Judgment Shin - Fire - Fool Tav - Sun - World
Rachelcat Posted December 31, 2023 Author Posted December 31, 2023 Wow, thanks for all the information! But you're stronger than I switching between them! I tried to learn about the Hebrew alphabet, but never completely got into it. You're reminding me there's always something new to study! Thanks again!
Scandinavianhermit Posted December 31, 2023 Posted December 31, 2023 Thank you, Rachelcat! I think _R_'s message from January 2022 above is well worth remembering: There are many systems of letter-correspondence out there. Each of us has to stick to one of them. Mixing isn't a good idea.
_R_ Posted January 1, 2024 Posted January 1, 2024 By way of new year's wishes, here is another table of astrological correspondences, this time from A. Volguine's very rare booklet:
Rachelcat Posted January 2, 2024 Author Posted January 2, 2024 Thanks! And happy new year to you! Wow, these are kind of wild! Like sun, moon, or Taurus for World! I'll have to take a closer look, Oh, wait! I already have a favorite: the Unknown Planet! Love it!
Scandinavianhermit Posted January 3, 2024 Posted January 3, 2024 4 hours ago, Rachelcat said: Oh, wait! I already have a favorite: the Unknown Planet! Love it! That's what they called the Kuiper Belt before 1930. Then they believed they had found the hypothesised unknown planet (Pluto), but in 2005, when Eris was discovered, astronomers began to realise, that there was an entire belt (or, rather, several belts) of Transneptunian Objects, some of them dwarf planets, out there. The concept of an unknown planet had quite some appeal to astrologers too, particularly before 1930. In 1905 and very assured, the Theosophist Charubel declared the existence of the planets Ov-o and La Croix (and eleven 'transcendent suns', whatever that is) outside the orbit. Similarly, in 1922, the astrologer Maurice Wemyss was certain, that he knew the how many years it took the hypothetical planets Jason, Dido, Hercules and Pluto to orbit the sun. The Hamburg school invented four transneptunian planets (Cupido, Hades, Zeus & Kronos) in 1923, four additional ones (Apollon, Admetos, Poseidon & Vulkanus) in 1927. Modern Astrology published ephemeris for George Sutcliffe's hypothetical planets Isis and Osiris in 1906, and the Theosophist Geoffrey Hodson postulated the existence of the additional Morya and Lion in 1929. Unknown planets were big in astrology during that particular era.
Rachelcat Posted January 3, 2024 Author Posted January 3, 2024 Wow, so interesting! Astrology was wild and wooly back in the day! Thanks for the details! Most of these hypothetical planets I've never heard of.
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