Does anyone here ever read WITHOUT including court cards in the shuffle?

[Chariot]

Every now and again, I remove all my court cards from my deck before doing a reading.  Sometimes I'm just NOT in the mood to wrestle with who/what any court card in the layout will refer to.

I know that's probably heresy—but I've found that the results I get are usually quite clear and accurate without them.  And much simpler to deal with.  Anybody else ever do—or try—this?

I'm not advocating this approach, by the way.  Just curious.

[Mister]

🤣

If you kick out the majors too, it is tremendously helpful in becoming aquainted with the minors, especially in TdM.

Majors only, Majors and Aces, Minors only, Courts and Aces - all of them have been employed by readers throughout the centuries.

 

Whether or not it is heresy actually depends on the kind of dogma you employ for yourself.

For me, it is not - my dogma ("off with useless baggage") goes along well with stripping packs.

[Ix Chel]

I always use the full deck.

[Misterei]

14 hours ago, Chariot said:

Every now and again, I remove all my court cards from my deck before doing a reading.  Sometimes I'm just NOT in the mood to wrestle with who/what any court card in the layout will refer to.

I know that's probably heresy—but I've found that the results I get are usually quite clear and accurate without them.  And much simpler to deal with.  Anybody else ever do—or try—this?

I look at Tarot as a 3-way marriage of 3 different decks: Pips, Courts, Trumps.

Normally, if I break the deck it's to separate majors and minors. But I can see why you break it to remove Courts. I personally have never done it ... but sometimes I read with ONLY the Courts b/c I want EVERYTHING to be be about "who"😇

Edited September 15, 2023 by Misterei

[Chariot]

4 hours ago, Misterei said:

... but sometimes I read with ONLY the Courts b/c I want EVERYTHING to be be about "who"😇

That's an idea I never thought of, and it's an appealing idea!  I've already started thinking of how to work with this....

Instead of choosing a card to represent somebody based on what I know or 'see' about them, why not use only the shuffled court cards to blindly 'draw' a card that represents them instead.

Even if the card that gets drawn feels like a mistake at the time, it would force me to explore what that person may be hiding, or is capable of (in a good or bad sense) that I'd never credited them with before.

Oh yes.  I can see this working as a separate tarot exercise altogether.  I'm going to try it out, as a way to understanding a person better. Thanks!

Edited September 15, 2023 by Chariot

[Misterei]

16 hours ago, Chariot said:

... Instead of choosing a card to represent somebody based on what I know or 'see' about them, why not use only the shuffled court cards to blindly 'draw' a card that represents them instead.

Even if the card that gets drawn feels like a mistake at the time, it would force me to explore what that person may be hiding, or is capable of (in a good or bad sense) that I'd never credited them with before.

I find people manifest different roles in different situations.

When I'm teaching Tarot ... I'm Queen of Cups. When I'm working obsessively on a writing project and don't stop to eat ... I'm Knight of Swords. When I stop working to eat a nutritious meal or do some yoga ... I'm Queen of Coins.

LOL right now I'm a little too Knight Swords and need more Queen Coins energy!

Edited September 15, 2023 by Misterei

[Wyrdkiss]

No, but I have one or two decks that are Majors-only, and with those I'll pull usually one card on occasion as a supplement. When I'm in the mood to use them.

Overall  I prefer the deck in its full scope of effect.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

On 9/14/2023 at 4:38 PM, Chariot said:

Every now and again, I remove all my court cards from my deck before doing a reading.  Sometimes I'm just NOT in the mood to wrestle with who/what any court card in the layout will refer to.

I know that's probably heresy—but I've found that the results I get are usually quite clear and accurate without them.  And much simpler to deal with.  Anybody else ever do—or try—this?

I'm not advocating this approach, by the way.  Just curious.

Oh my god yes!

 

So I am fairly new to tarot. Whenever I ask a question, I would always get confused when court cards come up in a question about the situation. I would never know how to read them in that context. 

 

Then recently I started removing the court cards and things really became clearer for me. I thought it was the wrong way until I read this and realised other people go through it too!

[Chariot]

51 minutes ago, Tan said:

Oh my god yes!

 

So I am fairly new to tarot. Whenever I ask a question, I would always get confused when court cards come up in a question about the situation. I would never know how to read them in that context. 

 

Then recently I started removing the court cards and things really became clearer for me. I thought it was the wrong way until I read this and realised other people go through it too!

I have to admit I don't actually do this very often.  However, some decks I do like using—including the standard RWS decks—just don't spark intuition in me, when it comes to the court cards.  I mean ...four male figures sitting on a throne, four female figures sitting on a throne, four young men on horses, etc.  Instead of just reacting to the picture itself, I have to start delving into what I 'know' (have learned) these figures symbolise ...and sometimes it's just a lot of work!

I find it easier when the deck designer has been more expressive about how the court cards are depicted.  For example, the personalities come across quite strongly in Ciro Marchetti's Grand Luxe Tarot, and Poppy Palin's The Everyday Enchantment Tarot, The Druidcraft Tarot and a few others.  I do have an intuitive reaction to the court card figures on these decks, so I don't ever remove them from readings. 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Chariot

[DanielJUK]

For me, it would give an incomplete reading, loads of important archetypes would be missing. I could write something without any adjectives but they are still an important part 😃.

 

But most importantly, how can you master them if you never use them or learn in readings?

 

It would be better I think to just read Majors, which is a whole European tradition with TdM, etc.

 

I don't really like to leave out any cards in my readings these days, each 78 card is important for the energy it represents 

[Akhilleus]

I always prefer to work with a full deck. 

[RunningWild]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:17 AM, Akhilleus said:

I always prefer to work with a full deck. 

I don’t know if you meant that to be cheeky but that’s how it struck me!  😅

 

I think that over time you get used to the court cards varying meanings.  Sometimes they’ll indicate a person or a personality aspect.  Sometimes with the pages, they can be young people, childish behavior, or a message just as sometimes the knights will be a young adult that encompasses those personality traits or a message arriving via the energy depicted in the cards.

 

It’s never the same.

 

I would keep the courts with the deck and make note of when they didn’t seem to fit.  Write the spread down along with the question being asked.  Over time you’ll come to see how it fits within the context of the reading.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by RunningWild

[Chariot]

I've been using court cards successfully for many years, and I rarely leave them out of a reading.  However, I did try leaving them out a couple of times recently—just to see if it made any difference—and the difference it made was actually beneficial!  The people/personalities concerned were actually implied by the other cards I got, and I didn't feel the readings lost anything by not having the 'game of thrones' in the mix.  The answers and advice I got came in a less complicated format.  I was surprised, and have added this to my bag of tricks, for when I'm in the mood.

I've seen people talk about using only the Major Arcana, in a reading or as an exercise, or using only pip cards on occasion.  I reckon leaving out court cards is in this same family of experimentation and focus.

I do love to experiment.  Some experiments have not worked well for me; others have.  This one has.  But I actually do nearly always use Court Cards, as per usual.  They have their things to say to us.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Chariot

[Raggydoll]

I think the key is why it is done. If we exclude cards because we struggle to understand them, then that’s not something I’d recommend. I don’t believe I’ve come across anyone who performs majors only readings because they don’t understand the minors, it’s typically done for completely different reasons. So that’s what it comes down to for me, the why. 

[Akhilleus]

19 hours ago, RunningWild said:

I don’t know if you meant that to be cheeky but that’s how it struck me!  😅

 

Lol glad someone caught that even when I replaced the verb. 😁

[AlbaTross]

Court Cards are definitely a major deficit for me even now.  I really suck at remembering their meanings, which is odd as I got most of the number cards down no problem.  However, no, I have not removed Court Cards from my decks before doing any readings.  If anything, perhaps I need to look up some Court Card only spreads to actually spend more time with them, not less.  

[MichaelH]

I've not done this, but have sometimes done readings with court cards only, or majors only, or minors only. I used to find the court cards a bit perplexing in a reading but have done a fair bit of studying on them so am now finding them easier. I usually take them as an aspect of myself that I am expressing or need to express more, though sometimes they can more obviously refer to someone else in my life. I also like sometimes to think about which court card is the person in front of me. Interestingly I know almost no Wands people 🙂

[Barleywine]

I create a lot of spreads, and sometime I will craft one for purely mundane situations that uses only the Minor Arcana (no courts or trumps). I seldom work solely with the Major Arcana (my current belief is that they are mainly about background themes and environments, not about "big deal" events since I just haven't seen that in practice), and never with just the court cards unless I'm doing a specific "significator" selection that relies on gaze.

Edited January 21 by Barleywine

[Siri5]

I always use the full deck but I’m quite intrigued by this, I can see it might have benefits for the clarity of a readying. Will be following closely to learn more! 

[ilweran]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:52 PM, Siri5 said:

I always use the full deck but I’m quite intrigued by this, I can see it might have benefits for the clarity of a readying. Will be following closely to learn more! 

 

Same here, tempted to give it a try - and maybe to try courts only as well. And to split into minors, majors and courts.

[Lunarissa]

When I started to learn a few years ago, I only used Major Arcana because Minor Arcana didn't speak to me at all and I couldn't remember a thing about what they represented (for context, I used a Tarot de Marseille deck, and without knowledge about what the pips and the numbers stood for, it was complicated for me). Now that I've gone back to learning, this time with a Rider Waite deck, I enjoy studying the Minor Arcana too. There is something about their "everydayness" and relative straightforwardness in comparison to Major Arcana that I really appreciate.

[Misterei]

On 2/5/2024 at 10:22 AM, Lunarissa said:

... I only used Major Arcana ... I used a Tarot de Marseille deck,

Many TdM readers use only the Majors.  It's a traditional style of reading. But, yes, the RWS illustrations DO make the Pips easier ... and I must say i LIKE the Courts' symbolism in RWS.

 

But on the original topic ... I might read with ONLY courts ... but it's pretty rare to never that I would remove the Courts ... it would have to be a really specialized circumstance and custom spread for me to do this.

[CornishMoonlight]

I’ve never felt comfortable separating my deck.  Always felt like it’s one entity and should be kept whole to get a complete and accurate reading.  That said I like the idea that someone above wrote, that they see it as 3 different decks - pips, courts and majors.   Definitely food for thought..