Duality in the majors

[akiva]

Hopefully I've posted this in the right place!

 

Greetings fellow forumites! 👋 I was wondering if you could help me with something... 

 

So a while back I read how you can split the 21 majors into 3 sets of 7 to represent the body, mind and spirit, but it didnt quite sit right with me. The majors seem focused on the dualism of our reality, as it is present in a fair amount of cards.

For instance the horses in The Chariot, the falling people in The Tower or the jugs being emptied in The Star. It got me thinking that rather than using 3 sets of 7, why not use 2 sets of 10?

You end up with these stark opposites appearing when you do so. Some are really obvious, such as Magician (willpower/impulse) and Strength (self control/resistance), or The Empress (fertility/production) and Death (end/decay). Even with The Chariot (conquest, going out and seeking the result) and The Star (being content with what you have, or waiting to gain something patiently).

 

The first one that really hit me in the face when meditating on this (almost ironically) was Justice and The Moon. As the imagery on the moon shows the phrase "entre chief et loup" or "between a dog and a wolf" which references that time of night where things are indistinguishable from each other. So error, misjudgment, lies. Then with Justice you have truth, correctness and a sense of precision or 'rightness'.

 

Also you get the same opposition with The Fool (lack, wanting, stepping into the majors) and The World (fullness, completion, stepping out of the majors), who both kind of get pushed out if we line up the majors like this. It's like they hover outside of the sets of 10 as a start point and an end goal...

 

But there are a few that I find hard to reconcile, such as The Papesse/The hanged man, The Emperor/Temperance and The Lovers/The Tower how would you see these?

 

In fact, how would you see any of the pairings made this way? Do you even use something like this with the majors? Do you prefer the 3×7? Or maybe you have a whole different idea? I'd love to hear! 😊

[Arania]

It is both. 3 and 7 to me are meaningful numbers for a lot of reasons, to me it means - past, present, future -  dark, twilight, light - illusion, seeming, truth - our world, gateways, other worlds - etc

 

And there is often more than one "dualism" too. Depending on the specific set of cards of course. The Fool goes with the world, yes.  But I would not pair the Magician with Strength. The Magician is the partner of the High Priest to me, as the Emperor goes with the Empress. The Hierophant goes with the Lovers because the law and rule and logic, in a way, is the opposite to the emotionality and passion of the Lovers. The Chariot goes with Strength, because one is about control, the other about trust. I could go on, also about why I think some card positions are off and why the removed cards need to go back and why in my own tarots I do it all different again 🙂

 

The Moon, I can never get over people seeing it as deceit and lies, because it is anything but. It is where dualisms merge and reality takes on a new meaning, it is secrets, discovery, covering up old failures etc. It can be illusion but under the light of the moon there can be no lies. For me, anyway.

 

 

 

[akiva]

That's an interesting way to see the duality in the majors @Arania. I never thought to view them like that! I need to think about the 3x7 more, it just feels weird having a row end with The Chariot card 😅

 

Is Strength 8 in your decks? In most of mine Strength is 11, and I pair it with The Magician because both share the number 1 (I kind of see numbers after 10 as just higher frequencies of the numbers 1-9)

 

It seems when viewed as pairs in order, like The Empress and The Emperor for example, they're working together and compliment each other almost like a marriage, but when viewed in a 10×2 fashion, they're working against each other? I can't think of a better way to phrase it...

For example you have an old man in The Hermit and young twins in The Sun (TdM) or a young child on a horse (RWS), both share the number 9. It's like as above so below, or looking in a mirror with the reflection reversed?

 

Ontop of that, there's also a duality involved with reducing the Majors down, for example The Devil as 1+5=6 and The Lovers as 6. So much to think about 😂 I'd love to know if this was deliberately done, or was just an accident!

 

32 minutes ago, Arania said:

also about why I think some card positions are off and why the removed cards need to go back and why in my own tarots I do it all different again 🙂

If you feel like sharing, please do! I'd love to hear your theories on this 😊

[Aeon418]

1 hour ago, Arania said:

But I would not pair the Magician with Strength.

 

In a Tarot tableau created by Aleister Crowley called Liber Tau, the Tarot Major's are aligned in 3 rows of 7 cards. In this arrangement the Magus, Strength, and the Devil make up the second column of illusion.

 

The Magus or Magician is the Ultimate illusion of Duality. He points above and below, when in actual fact there is no separation. He is the trickster-mind that obscures the unity of non-dual awareness.

 

Strength (or Lust in the Thoth deck) is the illusion of Force. As in the first law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed into different forms, symbolised by the woman opening or closing the lions mouth. Or even riding the lion, which infers direction and motion.

 

And finally the Devil is the illusion of Form. Outer appearances may not be what they seem. Materialism seen as an incomplete perception of the world.

[akiva]

20 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

The Magus or Magician is the Ultimate illusion of Duality. He points above and below, when in actual fact there is no separation. He is the trickster-mind that obscures the unity of non-dual awareness.

 

Viewing The Magician as a trickster... it makes so much sense! I forget that meaning sometimes, but he is the slight of hand street performer after all. It's almost like The Magician is the ego, which acts as a lens through which we perceive separation and difference (the illusion).

 

Did Crowley view the majors as a map of illusionary reality? Kind of like a map out of a cave? I have to admit I've not read much about how he viewed tarot...

 

This has given me a lot to think about with regards to the 3x7 layout, thank you 😊

[Arania]

Yeah Crowley, I don't do Crowley for lots of reasons.

 

To me the Magician is not a trickster, but the first step upon the True Path, when all the tools are a help and not a hindrance. He is about to realize his power, same as the High Priest is not yet beyond light and dark.

 

2 hours ago, akiva said:

but when viewed in a 10×2 fashion, they're working against each other

Yeah, that makes sense, too. So many ways to look at it, and easy enough to switch views depending on what you need from the cards at any given moment.

 

2 hours ago, akiva said:

Is Strength 8 in your decks?

Yes, but I have no probs with decks doing it differently, for me the images really matter, the positions are a secondary.

 

2 hours ago, akiva said:

I'd love to know if this was deliberately done, or was just an accident!

Deliberate. Forgot where I read that though.

 

2 hours ago, akiva said:

If you feel like sharing, please do!

When I have more time and a brain that's not preoccupied with village development stuff I will 🙂

[akiva]

28 minutes ago, Arania said:

When I have more time and a brain that's not preoccupied with village development stuff I will 🙂

Of course, take your time, there's no rush 😊 village development sounds really interesting! 

[Aeon418]

1 hour ago, akiva said:

Did Crowley view the majors as a map of illusionary reality? Kind of like a map out of a cave?

 

Yes and no. From one perspective the Tarot can be viewed as a kind of linear path or a stereotypical Fool's Journey. But the "there and back again" path that the Fool treads is the illusion of the Magus who points above and below and creates the necessary appearance of duality that allows the Fool to experience his own innate potential and possibilities. Nothing can ever happen in Absolute Unified Reality until the Magus weaves his spell, separating this from that. His performance is only deceitful trickery and illusion to the extent that the Fool is unable to see through it and participate in the game in a fully awake and aware manner. Having realised the map is a fake and the cave doesn't even exist, it is still an incredibly fun game to play.

 

Getting back to the 7x3 arrangement. Paul Foster Case adapted Crowley's original scheme. But he went in a different but equally valid direction. Instead of starting with the Fool, Case began his sequence with the Magus. This left the Fool as the odd card out. But the Fool is the original potential out of which everything else manifests. It is the complementary flip side of the coin to Crowley's arrangement that saw the Universe card as the fulfilment of all the other cards. It's like two sides of one coin.

 

As an interpretative key Case suggested that the top row of cards represented potencies, potentials, or powers. The middle row represents natural laws, agencies, or transformative conditions through which the top row manifests. The bottom row represents the outcome or final forms. Of course you can use this three layered interpretation on any 7x3 arrangement, including Crowley's.      

[akiva]

33 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

His performance is only deceitful trickery and illusion to the extent that the Fool is unable to see through it and participate in the game in a fully awake and aware manner. Having realised the map is a fake and the cave doesn't even exist, it is still an incredibly fun game to play.

So we being the fool need to realise the cave is only the magus' illusion? It's kind of like non-participation in the illusion no? The false idea that there's only A and B when there's in fact many other choices? I'm probably miles off 🤣

 

36 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

But the Fool is the original potential out of which everything else manifests. It is the complementary flip side of the coin to Crowley's arrangement that saw the Universe card as the fulfilment of all the other cards. It's like two sides of one coin.

This is how I see this pair of cards. Though more from the perspective of The Fool being the The Fool because they want whereas The World no longer needs. Kind of like how suffering is in the mind/perspective based, so too is need. One craves something, the other is fine without it.

 

41 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

As an interpretative key Case suggested that the top row of cards represented potencies, potentials, or powers. The middle row represents natural laws, agencies, or transformative conditions through which the top row manifests. The bottom row represents the outcome or final forms. Of course you can use this three layered interpretation on any 7x3 arrangement, including Crowley's.   

I can make sense of the logic behind his interpretation of the 3x7. Which of Crowley's books do you recommend I should read for his ideas behind this schema? 

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this, it's very informative 😊

[Aeon418]

8 minutes ago, akiva said:

So we being the fool need to realise the cave is only the magus' illusion? It's kind of like non-participation in the illusion no? The false idea that there's only A and B when there's in fact many other choices? I'm probably miles off 🤣

 

You're not just the Fool, you're Magus too and every other card in the deck.

 

Non-participation is a renunciate path that is closer to classical forms of Buddhism. Crowley's path goes in the exact opposite direction. Instead of transcending reality by a progressive retreat from life, Crowley proposed a radically open hearted acceptance of reality as it is. The increasing depth of this acceptance eventually dissolves the boundaries between A and B. This is illustrated in the Thoth Tarot via the persistent theme of the union of opposites.

 

With regard to the 3x7 Tarot tableau found in Liber Tau, I'm not sure if I could recommend any of Crowley's books. The 3x7 pattern is presented almost without comment by Crowley. It was intended as food for meditation and not intellectual analysis. James Eshelman does touch on it briefly in his Liber Theta. https://www.thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf See page 29 of the pdf or page 11 of the actual text.

 

Outside his B.O.T.A. course material, Paul Foster Case discusses his version of the 3x7 scheme in the book, "Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages." It's only about 2 and half pages long though. I'm not sure if it's available for free online anywhere.

[akiva]

45 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

Non-participation is a renunciate path that is closer to classical forms of Buddhism. Crowley's path goes in the exact opposite direction. Instead of transcending reality by a progressive retreat from life, Crowley proposed a radically open hearted acceptance of reality as it is. The increasing depth of this acceptance eventually dissolves the boundaries between A and B. This is illustrated in the Thoth Tarot via the persistent theme of the union of opposites.

I like Crowley's idea of being open hearted and acceptance. It reminds me of a guy I read (and can no longer remember where or who) who was in contact with his HGA and he was lamenting about the illusion and how we can't escape it, and his HGA in essence replied "So what? Make do with what you've got and live your life!"

 

47 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

With regard to the 3x7 Tarot tableau found in Liber Tau, I'm not sure if I could recommend any of Crowley's books. The 3x7 pattern is presented almost without comment by Crowley. It was intended as food for meditation and not intellectual analysis. James Eshelman does touch on it briefly in his Liber Theta. https://www.thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf See page 29 of the pdf or page 11 of the actual text.

 

Outside his B.O.T.A. course material, Paul Foster Case discusses his version of the 3x7 scheme in the book, "Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages." It's only about 2 and half pages long though. I'm not sure if it's available for free online anywhere

I was trying to remember if Foster was BOTA. I've read about him through Enochian books, as he kind of founded his school in opposition to their practices IIRC

 

It certainly is food for meditation. It's something I've been meditating on (the 2x10 schema) for a while now.

 

I'll have a hunt around for that book, and I'll dig into liberT, thanks again 😊

[Aeon418]

36 minutes ago, akiva said:

It certainly is food for meditation.

 

This is completely off-the-cuff and not particularly deep, so don't take it too seriously. 

 

In Liber Tau the right hand column is Aleph, Cheth, and Samekh. In the Thoth Tarot this corresponds to The Fool, The Chariot, and Art (aka Temperance). Using Paul Foster Case's three levels of interpretation (Potency - Medium - Result) suggests a few ideas related to the union of opposites.

 

1. The Fool, as a potency is representative of universal spirit, unlimited possibility and potential.

 

2. This enters into the medium of control, limitation and boundaries, symbolised by the Chariot of the individual life - incarnation.

 

3. Resulting in the perfect conditions to perform the Great Work of the Union of opposites in the context of a completely unique life. The union of the unique embodied individual and the Universal and Eternal is the ultimate work of Art.

 

The ripe fruit of this work will, in due time, produce the Wine of spiritual intoxication and transcendence that is carried back to the Eternal through the medium of the Chariot bearing the Grail. The voluntary surrender of the individual life to the universal life is the cause (karma) of the new potency - The Fool - seeking to manifest further possibilities out of the infinite. Rinse and repeat.

 

I can more or less see this same pattern repeating in the remaining six columns. If this is helpful I can have a go at them.      

[akiva]

Just to make sure we are on the same page, this is what we are looking at yes?

 

 

I managed to find Foster's book on archive. It seems that the first row power/potency operates through the law/agency of the card below, which then in turn modifies the conditons/effects of the card beneath that?

 

So if I understand this correctly then:

 

1. The Priestess as potency represents the knowledge of unity. The consciousness exposed to the great Truth.

 

2. The Hermit is this knowledge turning into wisdom? Knowledge applied to experience? Maybe the agency that The Priestess is working through is inspiration?

 

3. Which results in revelation from The Tower? Or the breaking down of established thought patterns? 

 

I'm probably getting this muddled, it's been a while since I've read about tarot this esoterically. 😂

 

1 hour ago, Aeon418 said:

I can more or less see this same pattern repeating in the remaining six columns. If this is helpful I can have a go at them.   

By all means if you want to go ahead 😁

[Aeon418]

1 hour ago, akiva said:

Just to make sure we are on the same page, this is what we are looking at yes?

 

Yep! 🙂 That's Crowley's Hebrew letter and Tarot card arrangement from Liber Tau. In this scheme all of the letters/cards are assumed to be contained by or are manifesting within the final card, The Universe. That's why the letter Tau and the Universe card are sitting at the bottom of the diagram on its own. It is not part of the middle column headed by the Empress. 

[akiva]

26 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

Yep! 🙂 That's Crowley's Hebrew letter and Tarot card arrangement from Liber Tau. In this scheme all of the letters/cards are assumed to be contained by or are manifesting within the final card, The Universe. That's why the letter Tau and the Universe card are sitting at the bottom of the diagram on its own. It is not part of the middle column headed by the Empress. 

Okay, got it, I'm going to lay my cards out and ponder over this using Foster's potency, agency, effect idea 😊

[Aeon418]

2 hours ago, akiva said:

1. The Priestess as potency represents the knowledge of unity. The consciousness exposed to the great Truth.

 

2. The Hermit is this knowledge turning into wisdom? Knowledge applied to experience? Maybe the agency that The Priestess is working through is inspiration?

 

3. Which results in revelation from The Tower? Or the breaking down of established thought patterns? 

 

I'm probably getting this muddled, it's been a while since I've read about tarot this esoterically. 😂

 

No, go with it. If this is what you are picking up at the moment it is beyond criticism. There is no right or wrong in this practice. The particular groupings of cards should ideally act as a conduit for associated ideas and inspirations to flow through into awareness. 

 

To me this particular card group suggests:

 

1. The Priestess as the continual tidal ebb and flow of universal consciousness into manifest existence.

 

2. The Hermit represents an individualized spark of this spiritual light, silently awaiting gestation like a secret seed in the darkness of matter.

 

3. The Tower is the individual person/ego within which the seed has suddenly germinated in a blinding flash of satori or kensho that destroys the old conception of themselves and the world in which they live. This sudden flash of enlightenment becomes a Lamp of Guidance (Hermit) through life, while simultaneously being the Wisdom that leads back to union with the Universal consciousness (Priestess).

 

This particular group of cards is significant to Crowley's Thelemic pantheon of Nuit, Hadit and Horus respectively. And the corresponding Hebrew letters total 93, which is the numerical value of Thelema and Agape.        

Edited October 4, 2023 by Aeon418
Typo

[akiva]

49 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

To me this particular card group suggests:

 

1. The Priestess as the continual tidal ebb and flow of universal consciousness into manifest existence.

 

2. The Hermit represents an individualized spark of this spiritual light, silently awaiting gestation like a secret seed in the darkness of matter.

 

3. The Tower is the individual person/ego within which the seed has suddenly germinated in a blinding flash of satori or kensho that destroys the old conception of themselves and the world in which they live. This sudden flash of enlightenment becomes a Lamp of Guidance (Hermit) through life, while simultaneously being the Wisdom that leads back to union with the Universal consciousness (Priestess).

I love the way you put it, it's clear you've had a lot of practice with this 😉 the idea of The Tower being blinding flash is good. Like how in the instance the lightning connects, the circuit is complete!

[Aeon418]

1 hour ago, akiva said:

I love the way you put it, it's clear you've had a lot of practice with this 😉 the idea of The Tower being blinding flash is good. Like how in the instance the lightning connects, the circuit is complete!

 

The completion of a circuit is good analogy. Suddenly, in a flash, the direct and intimate connection between the Individual and the Universal is revealed and the current flows. Although the destruction of the Tower also implies a need for rebuilding afterwards that corresponds to the difficult and necessary post-enlightenment work that is required to integrate the new and expanded awareness into the "bricks and mortar" of everyday life. The corresponding planetary energy of Mars, while frequently explosive, is also capable of manifesting the strict discipline and focus of the spiritual warrior. The 'current' needs to be fully grounded if it is to become anything more than a "flash in the pan."    

[akiva]

7 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

The completion of a circuit is good analogy. Suddenly, in a flash, the direct and intimate connection between the Individual and the Universal is revealed and the current flows.

This makes me think of the Noblet TdM, where the flames/lightning reach up to the divine rather than down to the person. It just seems less "horrible incident" and more "reconnecting with source".

 

7 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

Although the destruction of the Tower also implies a need for rebuilding afterwards that corresponds to the difficult and necessary post-enlightenment work that is required to integrate the new and expanded awareness into the "bricks and mortar" of everyday life. The corresponding planetary energy of Mars, while frequently explosive, is also capable of manifesting the strict discipline and focus of the spiritual warrior. The 'current' needs to be fully grounded if it is to become anything more than a "flash in the pan."

I think I've had something like this in my life. After doing some crazy workings I nearly short circuited myself and it took over a year to rebuild again. I wasn't properly grounded in the moment. Though you live and learn 😂

 

I kind of see The Tower as Shiva the Destroyer making way for new modes of thinking/being/existing.

[Aeon418]

The Empress.

The Wheel.

The Emperor.

 

I've been contemplating and meditating on these cards since last night and it is like opening a dam and too much comes through. I find the central set of three cards to be intensely profound in the way they disclose and reveal the very nature of existence. Admittedly that's a very big claim. And I find it incredibly difficult to condense my swirling thoughts and insights into words without fear of loosing something important in the process. In fact as I type this post I am acutely aware of a distinct feeling of inadequacy. I simply can't say what I feel I want to say, but I have to say something nonetheless. It's quite bizarre! 🤪     

 

The Empress as the initial "potency" is simply the totality of everything exists or possibly can be, without separation of distinction. She is the entirety of existence as a unified continuum without breaks, parts, or separation. She is the "Divine Feminine" in the ultimate sense as the source of all things out of No-Thing. The Mahayana Buddhist tradition comes close with it's concept of Shunyata or emptiness. But confusingly, this must be thought of as a positive something rather than a mere absence of anything. This is starting to sound like a Zen koan. 😵

 

The Wheel as the "agency" is the medium through which the timeless and eternal No-Thing seeks to experience its own unlimited and boundless nature. By whirling and revolving a centre point appears out of the Void. Change through the medium of time and space becomes possible. Distinction and separation manifest as the matrix through which experience can be realised and manifested. The hand that spins this Wheel does so for sheer pleasure and amusement. Existence is pure joy!

 

The Emperor as the "outcome" is the manifest individual. A physical, finite being existing in time and space. He is the Universe looking back at itself in awe and amazement. Or at least he is in potential. So long as his own inherent divine nature is unrealized, he feels himself to be the victim of circumstance and an unwilled fate, constantly whirled around on the Wheel of Samsara like a puppet. But as he learns to manifest his own divine and Kingly True Nature, the constant change and impermanence that he fights against is increasingly seen as a medium through which that True Self can be expressed. This in turn transforms the Wheel from Samsara into Nirvana. The whole of existence, both the bitter and the sweet, is realized as the body of the Goddess herself, with him as the divine lover at her very centre. Every man and every woman is a star.           

Edited October 5, 2023 by Aeon418
Typo

[akiva]

24 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

In fact as I type this post I am acutely aware of a distinct feeling of inadequacy. I simply can't say what I feel I want to say, but I have to say something nonetheless. It's quite bizarre! 🤪

This is most likely due to the fact that what you're trying to communicate comes from the heart center, and sometimes trying to verbalise that is like trying to taste colours 😂

 

26 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

The Empress as the initial "potency" is simply the totality of everything exists or possibly can be, without separation of distinction. She is the entirety of existence as a unified continuum without breaks, parts, or separation. She is the "Divine Feminine" in the ultimate sense as the source of all things out of No-Thing. The Mahayana Buddhist tradition comes close with it's concept of Shunyata or emptiness. But confusingly, this must be thought of as a positive something rather than a mere absence of anything. This is starting to sound like a Zen koan. 😵

I love this, so would The Empress be the divine mother that gives birth to everything else? I say this because the number 3 represents the first initial shape (a triangle or womb). While only 2D it still lays the ground for the rest of reality to form from it.

 

Looking at the esoteric meanings in Liber Tau for The Empress I'm a bit confused as to what the luminous consciousness and speaking silence means 😅 could you share your insight?

 

37 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

The Wheel as the "agency" is the medium through which the timeless and eternal No-Thing seeks to experience its own unlimited and boundless nature. By whirling and revolving a centre point appears out of the Void. Change through the medium of time and space becomes possible. Distinction and separation manifest as the matrix through which experience can be realised and manifested. The the hand that spins this Wheel does so for sheer pleasure and amusement. Existence is pure joy!

I'm trying to wrap my head round this, but by the very nature of The wheel it spins my mind around a bit 😅 Is The Wheel the creative force that The Empress acts though?

 

1 hour ago, Aeon418 said:

The Emperor as the "outcome" is the manifest individual. A physical, finite being existing in time and space. He is the Universe looking back at itself in awe and amazement. Or at least he is in potential. So long as his own inherent divine nature is unrealized, he feels himself to be the victim of circumstance and an unwilled fate, constantly whirled around on the Wheel of Samsara like a puppet. But as he learns to manifest his own divine and Kingly True Nature, the constant change and impermanence that he fights against is increasingly seen as a medium through which that True Self can be expressed. This in turn transforms the Wheel from Samsara into Nirvana. The whole of existence, both the bitter and the sweet, is realized as the body of the Goddess herself, with him as the divine lover at her very centre. Every man and every woman is a star. 

So The Emperor is the solidification of what comes from the emptiness of The Empress? Form from the nothingness? Like when source created man for the first time?

 

I need to meditate on this triplet more. Specifically the wheel. I keep getting this idea in my head that's its like a centrifuge mixing raw elements into form...

[Aeon418]

6 hours ago, akiva said:

I love this, so would The Empress be the divine mother that gives birth to everything else? I say this because the number 3 represents the first initial shape (a triangle or womb). While only 2D it still lays the ground for the rest of reality to form from it.

 

I can't figure out how the MultiQuote feature works on this site (I must be getting old. 🙄), so I will have to break up my reply into a several parts.

 

I was a little surprised when you mentioned the triangle as the most basic geometrical form but still could not see how it connects to the Wheel. I suspect there must be a step missing in my explanation. That's my fault. Maybe it's because a lot of my thought is rooted in the symbolism of the Thoth Tarot. What may seem self-evident to me, probably isn't anything of the sort. 

 

If we run with your triangle symbolism we see an enclosed space that is pregnant with possibility. But even though it can be symbolically said to contain everything, nothing can actually happen. In a certain sense its unchanging nature makes it timeless and eternal. But what if we were to posit a masculine point within the very centre of the triangle and then rotate the triangle around that central point, thereby creating that other symbolically feminine glyph the circle or Wheel. Suddenly, and seemingly out of nothing, something has emerged. A change of state is occurring in time. And the very fundamental basis of duality has emerged through a spinning circle in constant motion and a static point in the centre. This lays the most basic framework of reality within which an individual being can emerge. A being whose root source is that timeless and eternal essence, while simultaneously being limited, finite, subject to constant change and therefore development and growth. An individual being who is now capable of manifesting the possibilities that were only latent potential in the original eternity outside of time and space. And, importantly, there is no need for a separate creator deity in this scheme because the created and the creator are ultimately one and the same. Or as Aleister Crowley said: "There is no god but man."

 

I apologise if this seems horribly abstract and unconnected to the Tarot cards in question. But I hope it conveys the basic mechanism whereby the timeless and eternal infinite (Atu III) becomes a finite being (Atu IV) out of (seemingly) nothing, through the agency of the Wheel (Atu X). In this scheme there is no notion of infantile explanations for existence such as expulsion from an imaginary heaven for an equally fatuous original sin. The only duty of existence, if it can even be called that, is to awaken to the Divine Purpose behind why you wanted to be here. Or as one tradition conceptualises it, "reverse the Wheel and re-enter the the Womb of the Mother."   

[DanielJUK]

I've moved this thread to the Esoteric section but it sort of fits on the edge of about 3 different areas so is a tricky one but I think will feel more at home here as we are discussing a different technique with the Majors 🙂

 

6 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

 

I can't figure out how the MultiQuote feature works on this site (I must be getting old. 🙄), so I will have to break up my reply into a several parts.

 

It may or may not be about getting old 🤣 but to be fair, it's not the easiest forum feature to learn to do it but so useful to know! Very useful for feedback 🙂 . Firstly write anything you want in the post first, it's very hard to write before a quote box afterwards, then quote the post (or multiple posts). Go through the text box and if you want to break it apart, just do Enter or Return at the end of the line of text you want in the box. You have to press it a few times and quickly together and the box will break apart. You can do this as many times as you want.

 

Sometimes it just doesn't work! We have no idea why! But it just won't work on some posts / some threads. The other way is to block select the text and the forum will pop up a box which says "quote selection", press it and it will appear in the input box. You can do this for different parts of text. It's easier to do both methods than to explain it in writing

[akiva]

So if I've understood your writing @Aeon418, (which by the way is fantastic, no need to apologise for the abstraction!) The Wheel as agency gives motion to the stillness of The Empress/triangle/womb, which as a result then solidifies with The Emperor?

 

Timelessness becomes time? Emptiness becomes form? Stillness becomes motion? 

The Wheel as agency, in it's most basic idea would be 'change'. Or conversion from one state into another... 

 

6 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

And, importantly, there is no need for a separate creator deity in this scheme because the created and the creator are ultimately one and the same. Or as Aleister Crowley said: "There is no god but man."

I agree with this, but while we are entwined together I also believe both (us and It) are seeking to understand reality.

Following as above and so below, humans are born trying to find/understand this higher power, while source itself is trying to understand itself and what it's made.

 

9 minutes ago, DanielJUK said:

I've moved this thread to the Esoteric section but it sort of fits on the edge of about 3 different areas so is a tricky one but I think will feel more at home here as we are discussing a different technique with the Majors 🙂

It was a tough one to place! 😅

[Aeon418]

4 hours ago, akiva said:

Timelessness becomes time? Emptiness becomes form? Stillness becomes motion? 

The Wheel as agency, in it's most basic idea would be 'change'. Or conversion from one state into another... 

 

In a nutshell, yes! You've got it! 🙂

 

If there is a potential problem, it's the Emperor. Or at least the negative qualities of the Emperor that tend towards defensiveness and aggression. This can seen in the way individuals habitually wall themselves off from life behind their egos and self identity. The forces of continual change, symbolised by the Wheel, are perceived as a threat that transforms life into conflict and turmoil. But as the Emperor learns to wear the Crown of his own innate divinity, he becomes more secure on the throne and learns to embrace Change. This gradually softens his defensive siege mentality and transforms life into an open and expansive dance with the source of all being - The Empress - in which one is eternally being born from moment to moment. Eternally Becoming.

 

Or at least that's what I get from this particular 3 card meditation. 😄