Folk Cards of Destiny

[Tom]

I ordered this deck because it particularly appeals to me.  Has anyone here read with this deck.  I know that reading Oracles is about trusting your intuition.  The instruction booklet has only one spread.  Is there any reason that I can used techniques form Lenormand card reading to this deck?  Any ideas would be appreciated.  I know there are also playing card correlations that are marked on each card--after the basics I think it might be helpful for me to read up on playing card meaning.  In one video on YouTube the reader said that he likes to also use those to enhance his readings.

[akiva]

Welcome to the world of cartomancy! 😆

 

Any folk cartomantic style method would work with them perfectly well. Here are a couple of resources for reading them that might be useful:

moderatelyquicksilver

kraheck-liecker.de

 

If you read lenormand then things like grand tableau methods, lines of 5, boxes of 9 cards, all those kinds of things transfer over to these kinds of cards.

 

While I don't read with these specific cards, I do read with a piquet deck (32 cards hearts, diamonds, clubs and spades). They are very similar, so can help if you need more methods/info along your journey 😁

[Tom]

Thank you for the reference.  I'll definitely read that, also the advice.

 

I've only read Tarot in the past, but I've become attracted to Oracle Cards recently and somewhat spontaneously. 

[akiva]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

Thank you for the reference.  I'll definitely read that, also the advice.

 

I've only read Tarot in the past, but I've become attracted to Oracle Cards recently and somewhat spontaneously. 

What sort of oracles? Decks like the Folk Cards of Destiny differ quite dramatically from more modern oracle decks 😊

[Tom]

I received a deck of the Folk Cards of Destiny.  The cards are of high quality in a very sturdy box.  I have gone through the deck to start to build a relationship with it, watched Oracle reading videos, and books and articles.  I am disappointed that Lo Scarabeo has provided such a poor book with the deck.  It's almost microscopic print.  There is not description of each card or what the scenes in them are supposed to represent--I can only get that intuitively.  I will go through the cards one by one and write down my intuitive feelings about what they means.  The booklet only give brief meaning for each card.  I think I'm going to have to wing this one if I really want to learn it with the help of as much oracle card reading advice as I can find.  I started learning Lenormand, but I was strongly drawn to this particular deck and it's symbolism as I've stated above and for reasons I don't really understand.  I understand the meanings of general playing cards might come in useful.  Each card has the playing card correlation, like the six of hearts shows 6 hearts on the card--same with the other suits, leaves, acorn's, and bells.  Each correspond to playing card suits and tarot suits

 

What do you think would be the best way to learn these cards?  Do you feel I am heading in the right direction? 

[Doktor_Zeus]

Interesting. That's a traditional German-suited playing card deck. They go back to the 14th century. On a cursory search I could only find one site describing their use, and I'm not 100% certain that this is the same deck that you have - take a look and see if it matches!

 

https://judyreadscards.blogspot.com/2018/03/a-german-method-of-fortune-telling-with.html

 

Afraid I don't know much else about them beyond that, though.

[Tom]

Thank you Zeus, I'll check it out. Even if it's the the same deck I'm using I'm sure of it could be applied. 

[akiva]

They're called skat cards, you can use this name to Google around about them and find methods/resources. 

 

German suits have an equivalence to French suits: 

Leaves = Spades

Hearts = Hearts

Bells = Diamonds

Acorns = Clubs

 

In a lot of German traditions Clubs are the negative suit and Leaves are a positive suit. Though some do swap this round.

 

The two links I posted earlier and Zeus' link are really good resources for reading these cards. The kraheck link I shared doesn't just give you meanings it also shows you how to read the cards.

 

Here's the meanings from Kraheck I put into my notes: 

 

Hearts:

❤️ K - Male querent, for a woman their lover/husband/friend

❤️ Q - Female querent, for a man their lover/wife/friend

❤️ J - Child or dearest relative

❤️ 10 - Promises, wish fulfillment

❤️ 9 - Friendship

❤️ 8 - Visitors 

❤️ 7 - Great love, joy, happiness

❤️ Ace - The home (if upside down moving)

Bells:

🔔 K - A younger man

🔔 Q - A younger woman

🔔 J - A lucky card, brings good luck

🔔 10 - A lot of money, great values, inheritance 

🔔 9 - Gift

🔔 8 - Recognition, honour, praise, respect

🔔 7 - Good luck, success in endeavours 

🔔 Ace - A letter

Leaves:

🌿 K - Older man

🌿 Q - Older woman 

🌿 J - A message

🌿 10- Journey, long distance 

🌿 9 - Indefinitely 

🌿 8 - Over the small path (a short time)

🌿 7 - Profession, company, business, position

🌿 Ace - Office building, authority

Acorns:

🌰 K - A man no good can come from, envious person

🌰 Q - A woman no good can come from, envious person

🌰 J - Slander, envy and hatred

🌰 10 - Surprise or something unexpected (good or bad depends on cards around)

🌰 9 - Loss

🌰 8 - Illness

🌰 7 - Sorrow, tears, suffering 

🌰 Ace - Horror (shock?), house of morning. If with positive cards it's a positive shock.

 

Then an example line of three that they give:

🔔 Ace - 🌿 8 - 🌿 Q

"The querent will soon recieve a letter from an older woman." 

[Doktor_Zeus]

I kinda like these cards for some reason. I might have to see if I can make a deck.

[Doktor_Zeus]

Forgot to mention: 'Skat' is actually the name of a traditional card game played using a German-suited deck, not the cards themselves. It was invented a long time after the deck in the 1800's, and is a typical trick-taking game. The cards were used for fortune-telling long before that. Some card manufacturers also use the name 'Skat' to refer to a particular size of card deck, the cards being 59mm x 91mm approx, compared to a poker deck which is 63mm x 88mm (hardly any difference but still...)

 

Since Skat is one of very few games to use the German suits, or at least the only one to have recently been popular in America, the decks are often called 'Skat Decks' after it.

[Tom]

@akiva thank you for the information. The Folk Cards of Destiny have a little different structure than the SKAT deck. It has 36 card instead of 32.

 

Each suit has cards 1,2,6,7,8,9,10 and the court cards are Knaves and Kings. I do do you think using a 52 card deck to account for the differences would be helpful? 

 

I think that the pamphlet had only paying card definitions and aren't specific to the images on the cards. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Tom

[akiva]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

@akiva thank you for the information. The Folk Cards of Destiny have a little different structure than the SKAT deck. It has 36 card instead of 32.

 

Each suit has cards 1,2,6,7,8,9,10 and the court cards are Knaves and Kings. I do do you think using a 52 card deck to account for the differences would be helpful? 

Right, I didn't realise, so apologies Tom. I assumed it followed the 6-Ace pattern.

I've never found a resource that uses this kind of deck, so I will have a hunt around for you and see what I can dig up.

 

You could use the 2's as Queens/Ladies and remove the 6's and you'll have the deck of 32 ready to read with. Some traditions actually did this with the 8's in a full 52 deck to balance out the gender representation. 

 

What do you mean by "account for the differences"? Taking a set of queens out of a poker deck and putting them in? If so then go for it! All you can do is try and see if it works for you 😊

[Tom]

What I meant to set certain playing cards according to the pamphlet are supposed to represent Queens or women. So it's important for me to remember that. That's a possible definition for those cards when I really check into the book. Right now I'm just trying to intuitively link with what I see in the pictures and then I'll apply the definitions.

 

Thanks for your help. 

[akiva]

Oh right, now I'm with you!

 

I did find a potential  resource for you but we aren't allowed to link to other forums. If you vist "cultoftarotforum" you'll find a lovely thread in the "this weeks deck" titled "A week with the Folk Cards of Destiny" by Rachelcat (who is also on this forum). They decided to read off the images too, so hopefully that can provide some inspiration? 😁

[Doktor_Zeus]

I just checked the history of the deck. It was originally printed by a Jewish man called Bernard Dondorf, living in Germany. They printed a lot of playing card decks. The suits are traditional German, but the number and court cards differ from Skat decks commonly used today. The German deck did vary between regions before the unification of Germany in 1876. After this point, German decks started to become more uniform. Dondorf apparently did a lot of regional decks, including some fortune telling decks and some intended for tourists with decorative scenes of rural life on them, and was active at around the time of the unification.

 

What you've got there, I think, is what's known as the 'Saxon Pattern'. The Ace and 2 may in fact not be number cards at all, but the two 'Jacks' (Unter and Ober) whereas what you thought was a Jack is the Queen. Compare this:

 

 

Saxon pattern was a common set used in card games, but that doesn't mean it wasn't also used for fortune-telling, and Dondorf were known for oracle decks as well as playing decks - they were the German distributors of some of the better known Lenormand decks too.

 

With a bit more research I might be able to identify the names of the cards, but I couldn't immediately spot any definite guides to actually reading them.

[Tom]

I have been journaling about the deck since I got them.  This deck infused with masculine energy. I've been putting my intuitive meanings down and comparing to the guide book. As already discussed the guide book is essentially worthless.  These cards aren't read with reversals.  Sometimes my intuitive feelings about the cards go along with the booklet other times not.   I'm going with my intuition. 

 

It's my observation that all of the 10 of each suit depict women. I haven't scanned the 10 of Leaves yet but I included images of the other 3 suits.  

 

I'm reading t the ens as Queens in each suit. They all depict women with different traits. The deck is Northern German and in those decks court cards have different meanings. The Ober is the equivalent to a General--this card is considered card 0 (essentially an Ace). I read them as the beginning of the characteristics of each suit.  The Obers have the suit sign on the upper left side. The other man is an Uber with the suit symbol on the bottom and is the equivalent to a Sargent.  The Kings are of course are the supreme leaders. So reading 10s as Queens that gives us a full court. The 10s aren't the only cards to depict women in the deck.  Certain numbers are thematic.  All the 2s are animal cards for example. 

 

I just wanted to share some of my thoughts and progress. That's the way I'm reading these cards. Definitely only using the booklet as a last resort. For anyone else who may be interested in giving them a go. After I finish studying the Leaves suit I will start doing readings with them and see how it goes. 

 

The deck is definitely different than the one pictured above.  

Edited January 3, 2024 by Tom
Added information

[Sar]

I like these kind of deck.