W. B. Yeats and the 78 degrees of wisdom

[BrightEye]

I’m hoping that some of you might be able to help me find a particular reference. I have been looking into W. B. Yeats, particularly his esoteric work, including the Tarot. I could swear I read somewhere that he coined the phrase “the seventy-eight degrees of wisdom”, which we know better as the title of Rachel Pollack’s book. I have been looking through my papers to find the reference again, particularly an essay by Kathleen Raine where I thought I’d read it, but alas it’s not there. I have tried googling it, also to no avail. Perhaps I’m misremembering this after all, but maybe we have Yeats aficionados here who might help clear this up one way or the other? Thank you in advance!

[gregory]

I have an English graduate Irish Yeats aficionado on the premises, but sadly he can't come up with it either. We don't own many of his esoteric books, though. I am asking a retired prof of English from Cambridge...

[BrightEye]

10 hours ago, gregory said:

I have an English graduate Irish Yeats aficionado on the premises, but sadly he can't come up with it either. We don't own many of his esoteric books, though. I am asking a retired prof of English from Cambridge...

Thank you, gregory! If all else fails, I’ll ask my Yeats specialist colleagues, though they gave me funny looks last time I talked to them about it… Yeats scholarship seems to be quite divided on the topic of Tarot and his esoteric work!

Edited December 11, 2023 by BrightEye

[_R_]

Offhand, I don't recall that Yeats used this expression, but I may be mistaken. 

 

However, the Vision papers of his wife's automatic writings contain the following phrase, concerning Tarot: 

 

Quote

"Ascent of soul in twenty-two degrees of spiritual life"

 

Yeats' occult interests are now largely becoming accepted, incidentally, and scholarship has moved on somewhat - the inclusion of his occult paraphernalia and notebooks in the major Yeats exhibition in Dublin is ample proof of this. 

 

Kathleen Raine further developed her article into a booklet of the same name, and there's also June Leavitt's more recent book too.

 

As an aside, I compiled Arland Ussher's Tarot writings into one blog post (apart from his book). He was the chief informant for Raine's book.

 

[BrightEye]

52 minutes ago, _R_ said:

Offhand, I don't recall that Yeats used this expression, but I may be mistaken. 

 

However, the Vision papers of his wife's automatic writings contain the following phrase, concerning Tarot: 

 

 

Yeats' occult interests are now largely becoming accepted, incidentally, and scholarship has moved on somewhat - the inclusion of his occult paraphernalia and notebooks in the major Yeats exhibition in Dublin is ample proof of this. 

 

Kathleen Raine further developed her article into a booklet of the same name, and there's also June Leavitt's more recent book too.

 

As an aside, I compiled Arland Ussher's Tarot writings into one blog post (apart from his book). He was the chief informant for Raine's book.

 

This is great! Thank you. I’ll check out your blog. When you say the Vision papers, do you mean the manuscripts as opposed to the published versions of A Vision? 

 

[gregory]

Sadly he says:

Quote

I sold all my Yeats-and-magic books when I retired, but he was close to A E Waite when he was busy redesigning the Tarot and could well have coined the phrase then or picked it up in Golden Dawn chat. But I have no evidence or knowledge beyond that, I’m afraid.

 

 

Is that exhibition about him still in the National Library ? The staff there seemed to know a lot, and there was a whole display on his esoteric stuff. It seems to be still running - it was VERY good.

[BrightEye]

@gregoryYes, the exhibition is still there in the National Library. My interest in Yeats and the Tarot is new, so I will have revisit the exhibition. And thank for reaching out to your friend at Cambridge. Much appreciated!

[_R_]

The exhibition is running until 2024 apparently. Unfortunately I can no longer find the link to the online virtual tour, although they periodically run online guided visits via Zoom, as I recall.

 

4 hours ago, BrightEye said:

When you say the Vision papers, do you mean the manuscripts as opposed to the published versions of A Vision? 

 

That phrase is found on page 280 of volume 1 of the 3 volumes of Yeats' automatic writing experiments, the title is: "Yeats's "Vision" Papers: The Automatic Script - 5 November, 1917 to 23 September, 1918."

Edited December 11, 2023 by _R_

[BrightEye]

3 hours ago, _R_ said:

 

That phrase is found on page 280 of volume 1 of the 3 volumes of Yeats' automatic writing experiments, the title is: "Yeats's "Vision" Papers: The Automatic Script - 5 November, 1917 to 23 September, 1918."

Thank you! 
 

The Yeats exhibition is on until summer 2025 according to the NLI website. I work in Dublin, so I’ll go see it soon.

[_R_]

8 minutes ago, BrightEye said:

Thank you! 
 

The Yeats exhibition is on until summer 2025 according to the NLI website. I work in Dublin, so I’ll go see it soon.

You're welcome.

 

Do indeed go visit, it's well worth it (and greetings from Gaillimh!)

[gregory]

WOW- way to go you !

 

20 hours ago, _R_ said:

The exhibition is running until 2024 apparently. Unfortunately I can no longer find the link to the online virtual tour, although they periodically run online guided visits via Zoom, as I recall

 

Yes - I was looking for that too. Annoying. It was great. (not as good as in person, but still, a great thing.)

[BrightEye]

Apparently, it was Charles Williams who used the phrase 'seventy-eight degrees of wisdom', according to Rachel Pollack anyway. I just this very minute came across the reference, by mere accident. I assume it's in Williams's novel The Greater Trumps. I will check. Sorry for wasting people's time, though I did enjoy our conversation about Yeats.

[gregory]

You haven't, and now you know you need to go to the Yeats exhibition. 🙂

[gregory]

ACTUALLY (I had to look) Williams refers to 78 degrees of KNOWLEDGE. Page 153.

 

 ......the strange medley of the sign-bearing images, and the symbols wore no accepted or traditional aspect; their familiarity was foreign, they had been before the building of churches and sects, aboriginal, infinite; but, from wherever they came, he who had made them, and the papyrus paintings with them, up to seventy-eight degrees of knowledge, had cased and hidden them, and sent them out on everlasting wanderings without as they kept among themselves the everlasting dance within. But at that making and hiding the Tarot cards had lain in due mysterious order on and about the golden base of the Tarot images, each subtly vibrating to the movements of its mightier golden original, as that in turn moved in correspondence to the movement of that full and separate centre of the created dance which it microcosmically symbolized. There was to be a time, the legends said, when one should arise who should understand the mystery of the cards and the images, and by due subjection in victory and victory in subjection should come to a secret beyond all, which secret — it had always been supposed by those few who had looked on the shapes, and few they had been even over the centuries — had itself to do with the rigid figure of the Fool. 

[BrightEye]

@gregory Thank you for having a look and for quoting the relevant passage! Exactly what I need for my argument. - If I were lazy (which, of course, I'm not), I would ask for bibliographical detail and be done with it... Seriously, though, I must reread the novel. You've obviously read it. What do you think of it? On first reading, I liked the image of the game board or whatever it was - with all the majors as little moving figurines if I remember rightly. The only other novel I've read by Williams so far is The Place of the Lion, which I loved. There's something about Williams I really like but can't quite put my finger on. 

 

(Coming back to Yeats: I read the Red Hanrahan stories yesterday. I recommend if you haven't read them yet. Also, the longer essay by Kathleen Raine, featuring Yeats's and George Yeats's personal decks -- so interesting for Tarot anoraks!) 

[gregory]

I read it. I have to say it was AWFULLY hard work or seemed so at the time, but I did enjoy it, with breaks for other books. I would go get the biblio details for you, but it's behind the Christmas tree just now.

 

However - there are copies in the internet archive library; I can give you biblio details of those.

 

One was published by Regent College Publishing, Vancouver, in 2003 - where it is on p.177, and the other  was published by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company in Grand Rapids, in 1976, where it is on page 153. That one calls itself a reprinting of the 1954 edition by Faber and Faber.

 

Oh wait - I can JUST reach it, and now I have needles in my hair....  - but I do draw your attention go that FAB internet archive library; I LOVE it,.,

 

My copy is the Faber and Faber edition of 1954, as cited above;the quote is in Chapter Eleven: Joanna.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by gregory

[BrightEye]

@gregory Thanks! and yes, the internet archive is excellent. I don't know what I'd do without it. -- And I believe all Williams's books were reissued in the Faber Finds series. 

 

 

[BrightEye]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:22 PM, BrightEye said:

 

The Yeats exhibition is on until summer 2025 according to the NLI website. I work in Dublin, so I’ll go see it soon.

Update: BrightEye's been to see the Yeats exhibition at the NLI in Dublin. It's excellent! I recommend, and I shall go again. I particularly liked the little alcove with the film about his esoteric beliefs. The telly is set in a little puppet theatre that is pasted all over with Tarot cards and images/texts by William Blake. That puppet theatre would look good in my study!

[gregory]

I LOVED that bit too. I need to go again now ! I wish one could download the presentation - I'd love to have it to look at all the time.

[BrightEye]

5 hours ago, gregory said:

I wish one could download the presentation - I'd love to have it to look at all the time.

You mean the short film on Yeats's esoteric beliefs that's shown in the little box theatre? Or the entire exhibition? For the latter, have a look here https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=VLxzTFw1tZj

[gregory]

The short film.

 

But thank you for the visual tour - I bookmarked it ages ago, but then the link went dead !

 

OH HEY ! BUT - armed with the exact title -it came up as part of this. Trawl through... Towards the end... I'm saving it now - I REALLY don't want the whole video - then I need to find a way to save that part !

 

 

Oh triple and quadruple wow. Armed, as I say, with the name of the video, I found there is a DVD of the four films. The Life and Works of William Butler Yeats - The Four Films DVD

Armed with THAT I found a copy on ebay - and it was even CHEAP !

 

Bless you BrightEye - I had given up looking a couple of years ago, but with your visual tour, I got the exact name of the movie and then .... !

 

 

Edited June 19, 2024 by gregory

[BrightEye]

@gregory I'm glad it all worked out so well! Now you have to reread WBY's esoteric writings. BTW, are you familiar with Kathleen Raine's Yeats, the Tarot and the Golden Dawn? We mention this in the earlier posts in this thread. It's in the Internet Archive.

 

Arland Ussher, also mentioned further up here, is next on my reading list. The NLI Reading Room is such a great space by the way. I went there recently to read Basil Rákóczi's The Painted Caravan. I never used to need the NLI for my work until now. What I've missed! And totally OT: there's a Lego replica of the Library in the foyer now. It opens out like some of the other Lego models (e.g. the Titanic). You can see the reading rooms, the stair cases, even the magnificent fireplaces in the side rooms. And me (yes, indeed, a little Lego figurine that resembles me).

[gregory]

On 6/20/2024 at 8:36 AM, BrightEye said:

@gregory I'm glad it all worked out so well! Now you have to reread WBY's esoteric writings. BTW, are you familiar with Kathleen Raine's Yeats, the Tarot and the Golden Dawn? We mention this in the earlier posts in this thread. It's in the Internet Archive.

 

I'm pretty sure we own a copy... Himself is heavily into Yeats. We also own an old vinyl of Yeats reading his own stuff - I think they are the recordings used in those cips.

 

On 6/20/2024 at 8:36 AM, BrightEye said:

 

Arland Ussher, also mentioned further up here, is next on my reading list. The NLI Reading Room is such a great space by the way. I went there recently to read Basil Rákóczi's The Painted Caravan.

 

I'm lucky - I own that too.

 

On 6/20/2024 at 8:36 AM, BrightEye said:

I never used to need the NLI for my work until now. What I've missed! And totally OT: there's a Lego replica of the Library in the foyer now. It opens out like some of the other Lego models (e.g. the Titanic). You can see the reading rooms, the stair cases, even the magnificent fireplaces in the side rooms. And me (yes, indeed, a little Lego figurine that resembles me).

 

Not the fortune teller one ?  

Edited June 23, 2024 by gregory

[BrightEye]

13 hours ago, gregory said:

 

I'm lucky - I own that too.

 

 

The Painted Caravan? Envy! It's s delightful book. At the very end he says: "The writer of this book admits himself to be an addict of the Tarot cards [...]. He cannot resist a reading of his cards by every seer woman he meets. Nor does he fail to buy every pack of fortunetelling cards that has new variations in the symbols." I think we can both relate... 

 

On the Lego model: yes, if you look closely, there's a little figure in a black hoodie - that's me. Like any self-respecting scholar, I have a pack of cards in my pocket (the figure is behind a shelf so you can't see the pockets).

 

 

Edited June 21, 2024 by BrightEye

[gregory]

Can you see it on line ?

 

Not this one then ?