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Where to buy a Thoth large pack


brendanxx

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Aeon418
3 minutes ago, brendanxx said:

I see there's a book or series by Crowley called "The Best Of The Equinox" - is that a selection of The Equinox of the gods"?

 

No, that's something else. It sounds like a selection from Crowley's 10 volume publication, The Equinox. Despite the similarity between the names, it's not the same book as the Equinox of the Gods.

 

The only alternative I can think of in actual print format is the recent edition of Aleister Crowley's Four Books of Magick, edited by Stephen Skinner. The Equinox of the Gods is printed as part 4 of that work under the title, Genesis Libri AL. Perhaps the reasonably priced Kindle edition might be suitable, because paying over £30 for a huge hardback if you are daunted by esotericism might be a bit too much.

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Aeon418
1 hour ago, brendanxx said:

Thank you - much to think about.

 

No problem. But I would seriously consider getting Lon DuQuette's, Understanding the Thoth Tarot. While it might not have the biographical structuring you are looking for, it does contain an introductory section about various concepts and influences that went into the creation of the Thoth Tarot that will help you to understand how the deck works. It will also provide a basic foundation of knowledge should you wish to deepen your understanding at a later date.    

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Wyrdkiss
7 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

 

Apart from the reproduction the text of the Book of the Law, the Equinox of the Gods is probably one of the least esoteric books that Crowley ever wrote. It's mainly biographical. Check out the link in my previous post and skip straight to page 50, where the real meat of the book begins.

A very expensive and out of print book according to my perusal of sites.

In turn, how is Gems  from the Equinox? does it contain some of this material?

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Wyrdkiss
4 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

 

No problem. But I would seriously consider getting Lon DuQuette's, Understanding the Thoth Tarot. While it might not have the biographical structuring you are looking for, it does contain an introductory section about various concepts and influences that went into the creation of the Thoth Tarot that will help you to understand how the deck works. It will also provide a basic foundation of knowledge should you wish to deepen your understanding at a later date.    

Understanding the Thoth Tarot is seconded here. It is immensely helpful Brendanxx.

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brendanxx

Yes, that is so helpful,I'll read Understanding The tarot and let the cards have their effect and then, if they work for me, I'll explore further. i must admit it's a revelation to me how important Crowley's thinking is to so many people. Strange to think that I was born in Hastings and after many travels came back here and now live a few minutes away from The Stag Inn where I have been told Crowley used to drink in - but then I think a number of pubs have jumped on the bandwagon and claimed that honour. Its interesting that all these years later, in a radically different world, Crowley's presence is still felt.

 

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brendanxx

Started reading Understanding The Thoth Tarot - definitely a good choice for me to start off with!

 

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Aeon418
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Wyrdkiss said:

A very expensive and out of print book according to my perusal of sites.

 

Sadly, like a lot of Crowley's books, the O.T.O. has allowed them to go out of print and prices for used books have skyrocketed in recent years. Thankfully a lot of stuff is available on online these days, but this not a substitute for real books.

 

6 hours ago, Wyrdkiss said:

In turn, how is Gems  from the Equinox? does it contain some of this material?

 

Gems from the Equinox is a collection of material that was edited together by Israel Regardie in the 1970's. The contents were assembled from Crowley's 10 volume, bi-annual journal, "The Equinox." In its original format it contained magical and yoga instructions, short stories, poetry and plays. (All available online.) Regardie extracted the magick and yoga meditation instructions and printed them in one volume which he titled Gems from the Equinox.

 

"The Equinox of the Gods" is a much later work than the original "The Equinox" that Crowley wrote in the 1930's and is totally separate from the original 10 volume series called "The Equinox." Although, rather confusingly, this book and others was classified as part of the third volume of the Equinox (there is no volume 2), but none of these are included in Regardie's Gems from the Equinox. For example, on the title page of the Book of Thoth you will notice it is listed as "The Equinox Volume III no. V." You won't find that in Gems from the Equinox either.

Edited by Aeon418
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DanielJUK
On 5/8/2024 at 2:42 PM, Aeon418 said:

 

Do Aleister Crowley biographies really fit in that thread? In biographical books such as Aleister Crowley in England, there are multiple references to the Thoth Tarot, the writing of the Book of Thoth, and Crowley's relationship with Frieda Harris. But I suspect people who's interest is rooted mainly in the Thoth Tarot deck itself would be very disappointed by that book, even though it does zero in on the time period when the deck was created. There's just not enough focus on the Thoth Tarot to make it an essential part of a Thoth Tarot library. And this applies even more so to all the other Crowley bio's I have read. 

 

Although, given the title, I suspect this thread is in need of a emergency Crowley-ectomy.  

 

If you feel it's beneficial for learning Thoth and understanding Crowley's intentions, go for it. Share them there 🙂 

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Aeon418
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, brendanxx said:

Its interesting that all these years later, in a radically different world, Crowley's presence is still felt.

 

In some people's opinion Crowley's continuing and increasing relevance is evidence of his ability to channel the zeitgeist of our times. During his life it caused him nothing but grief. His official biographer, John Symonds, had an opportunity to set the record straight. But because he disliked his subject so much he instead chose to present a distorted caricature of Crowley to the world. But the legend of infamy invented by Symonds had the opposite effect. Instead of burying Crowley's reputation forever, it kept his name alive long enough to be embraced by the counter culture of the 1960's. The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Jim Morrison and the Doors, David Bowie, and Jimmy Paige of Led Zeppelin were all influenced by Crowley. This influence spread among their fans. Was Crowley prescient or just a lucky guesser when he wrote to Grady McMurtry that he thought 1965 would be a critical time in the development of the Child, by which he meant the Aeon of Horus. From that time onwards scholarship has improved and Crowley's ideas have begun to emerge as a more nuanced and balanced view of the man has been presented to a readership who more prepared than ever to look beyond the sensationalism that dogged Crowley during his life.

 

The Thoth Tarot itself has helped this along. To Crowley it was a visual summary of his spiritual worldview. Does it matter that most people are not interested in this and merely see the deck as a unique and beautiful Tarot deck? No. Instead it has helped the deck survive and become one of the most popular in the world. As time has gone by fans of the deck have become increasingly prepared to dig into the deep symbolic depths of the deck and have refused to be put off by the legend of infamy. Exposure to the concepts and ideas behind the deck have enriched many readers experience and has presented them with a gateway to something much more profound. But like all gateways it's an open door for those that feel drawn towards it.      

Edited by Aeon418
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gregory

What he said. The influence Crowley has had on all of us isn't going away any time soon.

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brendanxx

Well, to return to the topic I just received via Amazon EU the large pack of the cards. A little intrigued about the colour - all the ones I've seen have rather muted colours - nothing bright. And this pack is no exception. On the cover of the box it said "For this new edition the colours of the card images have been matched to the original paintings as faithfully as possible". Can anyone give me the history on this? In any case very pleased with the purchase - £27.90 - the same price as the smaller cards from Amazon that I sent back because too small.

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gregory

The history of this edition - Urania/Konigsfurt claimed to have rephotographed the original paintings for this reprint, but the result is in places washed out and the small cards obscure the detail somewhat, in my view..

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Aeon418
17 hours ago, brendanxx said:

 In any case very pleased with the purchase

 

I'm glad to hear your cards have arrived safely. 

 

With regard to the AGM URANIA printing of the deck, I'm afraid you have one over me there. I've never seen that one in the flesh. All the Thoth decks I'm currently using (one of each of the 3 sizes) are 1996 AGMULLER's. And I'm pretty sure that all my unopened packs are the same printing.

 

However, I do believe I have seen a few of the newer photographs of the cards. When the 2017 facsimile hardback of the Book of Thoth was published, being a complete mad man, I immediately grabbed a copy. Straightaway my eye was drawn to the Universe card printed on the dust jacket. It did not look quite like any of the renditions of the card that I am familiar with. I compared it with the covers of my other copies of the Book of Thoth and the card from my large Thoth deck. The images on the cover of my other Book's of Thoth appear to be so-called "greenies," and look a bit awful in my opinion. I know some people swear by them, but I'm not a fan of "greenies."

 

Compared to my AGMuller version of the card the image on the cover of the new hardback of the Book of Thoth did indeed seem to look lighter and more muted. It's hard to describe the difference, but it does look like the colour saturation on the AGMuller card is much higher and the overall image seems a little darker. While the image on the cover of the new book is lighter and appears to have a "matt finish" to it. But is this new photography closer to the actual paintings? If it is, complaints that the image looks "washed out" may be compared to people who like a lot of sugar or salt who then try to cut down. The higher colour saturation of the 1996 AGMuller's may have influenced what many people believe the cards should look like, and this may be where some of the complaints originate.

 

Within the new hardback there are also reproductions of the Hierophant, Lust, the Lovers, the Sun, and the Ace's of Swords and Disks. The Hierophant in particular looks different to the AGMuller card. The new photograph looks very flat and rather brown-ish compared to the more orangey version printed on the card. But again, is this what the original paintings really look like before some 90's era visual sugar addict at AGMuller turned the colour saturation dial all the way up to 11.         

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gregory

I have the old and the new (and two greenies). The new are VERY pale by comparison. I'd love to see the original paintings.... I suspect the older decks were deliberately saturated though. Lillie and I once started to write up a bid to be admitted to the Warburg to view them for research, but we never finished it.

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brendanxx

I just looked through the major arcana and found them very powerful and although the colours are somewhat muted I suspect that they've always been that way.. Anyway I'm attaching the section from the booklet that deals with the quality of reproduction - it all seems very pukka. Whilst I understand the temptation to saturate the cours more , there's something about the opriginbals that draws me in, makes me work a little harder at getting into what the cards mean.

thoth booklet.jpg

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Just asked Chatgpt about the AGM Urania pack and it told me this pack was considered one of the most accurate and is often referred to by Thoth entusiasts.

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I wouldn't believe anything a virtual assistant told me. Have you ever looked at the amazon review summaries by their AI bot ? Absolute garbage; they ALL boil down to "some people like it, some don't." The listings for the Urania pack say exactly that - that's what the bot will have picked up. It won't have seen posts here, for instance, where people who know their decks have commented. I have referred to it frequently. Sure it's very DETAILED and tidy, a bit washed out, and if I had to choose ONE, it is not the one I would choose. I'd run wit the original 1986 AGM one: the only for sure images I can find are on an auction site:

 

https://veescave.co.uk/shop/collectables/other-collectables/aleister-crowley-thoth-tarot-rare/

 

Don't get me wrong - the new one is painstakingly done and very good, but it hasn't (for me) the atmosphere. And I REALLY don't trust AI information, let alone take it seriously.

Edited by gregory
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No - and to be fair Andrew McGregor (Toronto) says the same about it; he loves it.

image.png.2b479ee63d13fb62fa12e506d32c4e8d.png

 

But ChatGP picks up EVERYTHING - if I went on amazon and said all the cards had a weird orange tint (they don't) I hasten to add) it would pick that up too...

 

Here are the amazon chat's "helpful" summary of the reviews of it:

image.png.a9aaf9a1fccaa3324b5b1d94a0414b4f.png

The actual reviews are NOTHING like that and go into great detail.

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I can understand the antipathy towards Chargpt, but I'm afraid that it is far more powerful than most people understand. It's already got capabilities far beyond the human brain. Anyway, answer to Aeon418, no, it doesn't mean you'r enot a Thoth enthusiast, it just means than many Thoth enthusiasts refer to it. Also it doesn't simply look at customer reviews on platforms like Amazon. I asked it how it garnered info on the veracity of ullustrations on the AGAM URANIA Thoth Tarot and it replied:

 

To determine the accuracy of the illustrations in the AGM Urania Thoth Tarot pack compared to the original illustrations, I would gather information from the following sources:

  1. Original Thoth Tarot Deck: Reference the original Thoth Tarot deck created by Aleister Crowley and painted by Lady Frieda Harris. These original cards are well-documented and many high-quality scans and reproductions are available.

  2. AGM Urania Publications: Review any official information provided by AGM Urania, the publisher of the specific Thoth Tarot deck in question. Publishers often provide details about the artwork, any modifications made, and their adherence to the original designs.

  3. Comparative Reviews: Look at detailed reviews and comparisons by tarot enthusiasts and experts. Many reviewers provide side-by-side comparisons of different editions of tarot decks, highlighting differences in color, design, and fidelity to the original artwork.

  4. Books and Scholarly Articles: Reference books and scholarly articles about the Thoth Tarot deck. Works like "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" by Lon Milo DuQuette often include discussions of various editions and their faithfulness to the original.

  5. Online Tarot Communities: Consult forums and communities dedicated to tarot, such as Aeclectic Tarot or the Tarot Subreddit, where collectors and readers often discuss and compare different editions of tarot decks.

By synthesizing information from these sources, I can provide an informed analysis of the accuracy of the illustrations in the AGM Urania Thoth Tarot pack compared to the original illustrations by Aleister Crowley and Lady Frieda Harris.

 

So, it's pretty mind boggling. It can access literally millions of pieces of information in a second.

 

I've found it particularly handy and  illuminating in comparing the symbolism of various Tarot packs - in particular the Waite and The Thoth imagery. It not only outlines  the differences but also explainhow they arise from the particular intentions of the authors.

 

What Chatgpt cannot do is to understand my particular connection to the cards - in the same way a guide book to Rome has really very little to do with the actual experience of visiting that city.

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It can have all kinds of mechanical power, but the fact remains that it is classic GIGO.

 

And NONE of those sources can actually determine the accuracy. And NONE of the decks is the original. The ONLY way to do that is to visit the actual artwork in the Warburg Institute. Something that is extremely hard to do; you have to have a "genuine" academic reason - and "I want to KNOW" is not enough. It is very difficult to justify a visit under their strictures. The closest you could get therefore would be for THEM to say how accurate they are,. I don't think anyone here has actually seen them.

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12 hours ago, brendanxx said:

So, it's pretty mind boggling. It can access literally millions of pieces of information in a second.

It can also hallucinate information and present it confidently as fact, when it's completely made up. So you'd still have to double check those sources and make sure what it's saying is 100% valid re: the accuracy of those images.

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