Do you put your cards back in order after a reading?

[Raggydoll]

1 minute ago, Barleywine said:

I'm just the opposite. I have a constitutional aversion to remote reading (and have a rant or two about it on my blog), unless the client pulls their own cards and tells me what they got. I believe tarot works by "subconscious induction" through handling the cards, and since I don't intentionally practice psychism on my sitters, I don't want the cards responding to my own inner impressions of the situation. I do have some spreads that don't use reversals, and when I do those I just turn any reversed cards upright as I go.

This is very interesting because I have definitely come to the understanding that my readings are psychic (I figured that out when I noticed that I could do readings without any tools at all). So for me it doesn’t really matter if the other person is present or not. I either tune into the querent (after asking them if I may connect with them) or I channel information from, well.. for lack of a better description I like to say “from spirit” or from the akashic records?! I feel like my vocabulary is so incredibly limited and inadequate in that area (as is my understanding of the true nature of the process too). But I really appreciate hearing everyone else’s beliefs and experiences! 

[Saturn Celeste]

9 minutes ago, Barleywine said:

I don't intentionally practice psychism on my sitters

Oh I could discuss this with you all day!!  That is a very interesting thought!  But I think intentional is the keyword here.  When I read for others (I never read for myself) I take the intent part of the shuffling very seriously.  I like to have it quiet.  Then I lay the cards out.  I have trust in my cards, I think it comes along with the love for my cards.  When I read the cards in front of me, I take them at their message and convey that to my client.  I also mingle astrology into the reading when applicable.  Now when I am reading I will "know" I need to add a few things that apply to their situation also.  So that much be the psychism you're speaking of.  I do not claim to be psychic, but I do claim to be intuitive.  Is this any different from doing an intuitive reading for someone?  I feel intuition and psychic abilities are very close, indeed.  It is the nature of tarot cards and the way we perceive the messages of the cards that allow for our own special abilities to come forward in readings.  I'm old school, I studied the meanings a lot when I was learning but once the meanings have been interpreted there is still more inside me that I feel necessary to tell my clients.  Whether it's intentional or not, it has become a part of my technique.  I am an Aquarian and feel the internet acts as a boost to my intuition, I feel the electric connection without the need for touch.  We should exchange readings one day! 

[Saturn Celeste]

@Raggydoll, I hear you!  @Barleywine just so you know you're being sandwiched by 2 air signs!

[Raggydoll]

7 minutes ago, Saturn Celeste said:

@Raggydoll, I hear you!  @Barleywine just so you know you're being sandwiched by 2 air signs!

🤣🤣🤣🤣 (poor poor barleywine!) 

[Barleywine]

Ha ha! After 45 years of doing this stuff, I'm pretty thick-skinned. But what Cancer-Capricorn-Scorpio isn't? We have it all: marshmallow core. iron hide and gimlet eye!

Edited June 22, 2019 by Barleywine

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Saturn Celeste said:

Absolutely!  I can't stand leaving reversed cards in my decks!!  I am really particular about it.  I shuffle excessively then count out 21 cards and reverse them, then slip them into the middle of the deck and shuffle excessively again.  Then lay the cards out, but the entire time I'm setting my intention, repeating the sitter's question so the reversals in the deck are for that specific reading.  After the reading, all the reversals in the deck are turned upright and I'm ready for the next reading.  I think my decks are happy with the way I handle the reversals!

I really, REALLY like this.
I tend NOT to use reversals with anything but Italian Sibilla (and not Tarot!), though I'm certainly able to read them. But to be perfectly honest, I kind of hate reversals.
It's all attendance for me (and I'm a little shocked that @Barleywine, a dedicated Thothie,  is doing them, Crowley certainly didn't)

Good thread. There s much to be unpacked here.

 

[Barleywine]

Actually, I use both reversals and dignity since they serve different purposes. Reversal shows the angle of attack or mode of delivery, while dignity increases or decreases the potency without changing the meaning.

[FLizarraga]

I used to do that (responding to the OP, not the latest conversation), but it was EXHAUSTING... 

[Raggydoll]

2 hours ago, FLizarraga said:

I used to do that (responding to the OP, not the latest conversation), but it was EXHAUSTING... 

Totally. Just the thought of it drains me! I only do it when I need to double check that a deck is complete or when I’m using it for studies 

 

[Czenzi]

I keep my decks shuffled. Periodically, I have gone back through them and put them in order to “reset” them, but this is usually only for a day or two and I don’t do it often. I will also usually sage them at this point, but I also sage shuffled decks and keep selenite near them all the time. So, I feel like they are pretty “clean” generally and I only reorder the decks if I somehow feel they *really* need it. I have considered reordering the decks that I don’t use too much so that they can hibernate, but I am really not that organized a person and just haven’t ever really felt the drive to actually take the time.

 

I don’t read reversals often, so I don’t really worry about that. If I am reading reversals, I do make sure they are all upright at the end. When I use reversals, I generally will reverse about a quarter or a third the deck. I do this as I cut the deck. I take some of the cards off of the top of each cut pile, reverse them, reshuffle thoroughly and cut again without reversing. 

 

At at the end of a reading, I don’t riffle shuffle but I will often overhand shuffle them slightly. I only riffle shuffle at the very beginning. I like the overhand technique as I feel like the cards tell me when to “stop” better. My hand that receives the cards gets a little warmer and even tingles sometimes.

 

I really like the idea of putting a positive card at the bottom of the deck. I may start doing that too. ❤️

 

That pretty much my whole shuffling philosophy right there. I do try try to keep my cards “happy.” 🙂 Though I am sure I could do better. 

[Czenzi]

On 6/22/2019 at 8:24 AM, Saturn Celeste said:

Oh I could discuss this with you all day!!  That is a very interesting thought!  But I think intentional is the keyword here.  When I read for others (I never read for myself) I take the intent part of the shuffling very seriously.  I like to have it quiet.  Then I lay the cards out.  I have trust in my cards, I think it comes along with the love for my cards.  When I read the cards in front of me, I take them at their message and convey that to my client.  I also mingle astrology into the reading when applicable.  Now when I am reading I will "know" I need to add a few things that apply to their situation also.  So that much be the psychism you're speaking of.  I do not claim to be psychic, but I do claim to be intuitive.  Is this any different from doing an intuitive reading for someone?  I feel intuition and psychic abilities are very close, indeed.  It is the nature of tarot cards and the way we perceive the messages of the cards that allow for our own special abilities to come forward in readings.  I'm old school, I studied the meanings a lot when I was learning but once the meanings have been interpreted there is still more inside me that I feel necessary to tell my clients.  Whether it's intentional or not, it has become a part of my technique.  I am an Aquarian and feel the internet acts as a boost to my intuition, I feel the electric connection without the need for touch.  We should exchange readings one day! 

 

@Raggydoll, @Barleywine and you have interesting perspectives here. I am probably closest to yours. 

 

I actually think I read better if the client isn't there as I have no “cues” to pick up on other than the cards themselves. Maybe this because I learned online and have done most of my practice reads online for strangers. When I read in person for someone, I usually know the person and situation beyond the question itself, and I also know the person’s body language, voice, etc. I kind of think this serves as “interference” in a reading, especially if the querent is looking for a particular answer. I intuit *that,* not just the cards. I’m a Cancer. Picking up people’s emotions is what I do well, but it has drawbacks. Remote readings help filter that out for me a bit and helps me learn the cards better. 

 

That said, I’m don’t exactly consider this me being psychic in my reading, per se. It’s more just focusing on the cards and and on my intuition. I do think of the cards as a window onto things in the universe we don’t normally see, and I do see intuition as connected to psychism. But, I do not think I am particularly psychic, though my readings probably skew toward that more than some people.

 

This is just me though, and I’m still learning. I am sure my reading ability will get better and change this perspective a little over time. 

[Barleywine]

4 hours ago, Czenzi said:

 

@Raggydoll, @Barleywine and you have interesting perspectives here. I am probably closest to yours. 

 

I actually think I read better if the client isn't there as I have no “cues” to pick up on other than the cards themselves. Maybe this because I learned online and have done most of my practice reads online for strangers. When I read in person for someone, I usually know the person and situation beyond the question itself, and I also know the person’s body language, voice, etc. I kind of think this serves as “interference” in a reading, especially if the querent is looking for a particular answer. I intuit *that,* not just the cards. I’m a Cancer. Picking up people’s emotions is what I do well, but it has drawbacks. Remote readings help filter that out for me a bit and helps me learn the cards better. 

 

The idea of "cues" brings up the interesting subject of "cold reading." Back when I started, it simply meant not knowing anything about the querent or the topic of interest in advance: you went in "cold." Now it seems to mean trying to glean clues from the sitter's appearance and mannerisms, and then pass them off as prescient knowledge to make yourself look good. To be honest, when I read I barely look at the other person, who is usually sitting next to me rather than across the table. The only cues I seek are via confirmation of the things I say, which may take the reading in a new direction. I focus almost entirely on the cards. Here are some further thoughts on the subject:

 

https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/2017/08/21/cold-reading-then-and-now/

[fire cat pickles]

My idea of "cold" is the same as "canned", as in a meal. I look at it like a meal (or reading) that comes from a can. It's cold, unprepared, plopped out on a plate.  Pre-made. "Here's your crap-tastic dinner (reading). Enjoy!"

 

How does one do a reading for someone and not pick up on some clues or background information? I think we all do. Does that make us all "cold readers" if we do, or do not?

[Barleywine]

On 4/8/2019 at 10:51 AM, gregory said:

I don't as then I only have to shuffle extra hard next time.

I missed this before. As is often the case, gregory makes the most telling point with the fewest words. My goal is always to attain the most thorough randomization before the cards are aligned for the "story-telling." If I put all of them back in order, I would run into the "clumping" problem every time, where an "out-of-box" series shows up in the reading. I'm always suspicious of the validity of the pull when that happens.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Barleywine

[Barleywine]

26 minutes ago, fire cat pickles said:

My idea of "cold" is the same as "canned", as in a meal. I look at it like a meal (or reading) that comes from a can. It's cold, unprepared, plopped out on a plate.  Pre-made. "Here's your crap-tastic dinner (reading). Enjoy!"

 

How does one do a reading for someone and not pick up on some clues or background information? I think we all do. Does that make us all "cold readers" if we do, or do not?

Cold = canned. I like that! (I can almost here Monty Pythons Viking's singing "Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam!") But as Saturn Celeste said earlier in a different context, I think it's "intention" that matters. I don't make any assumptions about my sitters except perhaps those necessary to select a Significator if I'm using one. I do pay attention to how much prior experience they've had with readings so I can adjust my presentation and save some time with the preliminaries.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Barleywine

[ilweran]

Decks I don't use are in order, and usually the order they're in in their book/lwb. Or rhe order they came in if I'm not planning on using them at all.

 

Decks I do use I don't normally reorder unless there's a reason, I reordered my Greenwood yesterday after reading an old thread on AT about the influence of the Thoth as well as the RWS on it and wanted to compare the minors to both. Of course this is where the leaving them in order/ordering them according to their book causes problems as the Thoth and the RWS were in different orders for the suits and one went Ace-10 and the other went 10-Ace.

 

On the plus side, after all these months of almost exclusively using the Greenwood the Thoth seemed less strange than it used to and the RWS seemed more open to me for intuitive readings!

[Barleywine]

10 minutes ago, ilweran said:

Decks I don't use are in order, and usually the order they're in in their book/lwb. Or rhe order they came in if I'm not planning on using them at all.

 

Decks I do use I don't normally reorder unless there's a reason, I reordered my Greenwood yesterday after reading an old thread on AT about the influence of the Thoth as well as the RWS on it and wanted to compare the minors to both. Of course this is where the leaving them in order/ordering them according to their book causes problems as the Thoth and the RWS were in different orders for the suits and one went Ace-10 and the other went 10-Ace.

 

On the plus side, after all these months of almost exclusively using the Greenwood the Thoth seemed less strange than it used to and the RWS seemed more open to me for intuitive readings!

This brings up a good point. If I'm using a deck for study and not regular reading, I keep it in order simply for ease of reference. I try to have two copies of decks I like to both study and read with, one to keep in order and the other randomized (the Thoth and Voyager come to mind). There is also a sub-set of this idea. Some of my spreads require the trump, court and minor cards to be shuffled and pulled separately, so I keep the decks I use for that split into three divisions, but each one is left in random order.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Barleywine

[ilweran]

I printed Mi-shells Greenwood PDFs just onto A3 paper and cut them out for studying but I can't find them now - I think I gave them to my mum to study the art style when we were planning on redrawing the non-gendered Lovers card to get a better quality image. Not got round to that yet, may have to print some more. Of course with most decks we don't have that luxury.

[Czenzi]

10 hours ago, Barleywine said:

The idea of "cues" brings up the interesting subject of "cold reading." Back when I started, it simply meant not knowing anything about the querent or the topic of interest in advance: you went in "cold." Now it seems to mean trying to glean clues from the sitter's appearance and mannerisms, and then pass them off as prescient knowledge to make yourself look good. To be honest, when I read I barely look at the other person, who is usually sitting next to me rather than across the table. The only cues I seek are via confirmation of the things I say, which may take the reading in a new direction. I focus almost entirely on the cards. Here are some further thoughts on the subject:

 

https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/2017/08/21/cold-reading-then-and-now/

Cold reading is an interesting kettle of fish. I think there is probably a whole spectrum there. Surely it can be a cold reading technique and can even be used fraudulently. However, I don’t think it’s fair to say all cues lead to “cold reading.” Some cues are natural to pick up on, we all read body language. And, sometimes it is *not* color reading but getting an empathic feeling and then relying on that, which is still psychic/intuitive reading, just of a different type. Thing is, the latter two may not be bad in a reading, but I am really trying to learn to read the cards. I already can pick up things pretty easily empathically. The cards, however, are another story . . . And that’s what I want to isolate and learn. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Czenzi

[katrinka]

I agree. Cold reading can involve much more than just picking up on cues. There's a whole set of techniques designed to deliberately fool the client. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
 

If you notice that your client's clothes and shoes are shabby and infer that they may be having financial issues, that's fine.. It might not be the case, they might have a messy job to do that day like painting or cleaning the attic, but it's definitely something to explore further. We notice the same things in non-reading situations. I don't think card reading ethics should be any different from regular ethics.

If you mislead them as to how you're getting the information (deceased relatives, angels, etc.), it's another matter.

Edited July 3, 2019 by katrinka

[katrinka]

11 hours ago, Barleywine said:

I missed this before. As is often the case, gregory makes the most telling point with the fewest words. My goal is always to attain the most thorough randomization before the cards are aligned for the "story-telling." If I put all of them back in order, I would run into the "clumping" problem every time, where an "out-of-box" series shows up in the reading. I'm always suspicious of the validity of the pull when that happens.

Yes.
I have re-ordererd a deck maybe three or four times in my life, when it was "misbehavinng"badly. (Giving me hyperdramatic, "ROCKS FALL, EVERYONE DIES!!!1!" type answers for the most innocuous questions. I can accept "This won't play out the way we would like". But at a certain point, it becomes obvious that the cards are yanking my chain.)  For the most part, I don't "reset", cleanse, sage or leave my cards on the windowsill. I just don't find it to be necessary. YMMV, etc.

Edited July 3, 2019 by katrinka

[FLizarraga]

On 7/2/2019 at 11:17 PM, Raggydoll said:

Totally. Just the thought of it drains me! I only do it when I need to double check that a deck is complete or when I’m using it for studies 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 6:41 AM, Barleywine said:

This brings up a good point. If I'm using a deck for study and not regular reading, I keep it in order simply for ease of reference.  I try to have two copies of decks I like to both study and read with, one to keep in order and the other randomized

This as well. Those are the only decks I keep ordered. In some cases, I also try to keep at least two copies, one of which stays unshuffled for reference.

[Guest]

Honestly, I don't feel like cards hold as much energy as people may estimate. If anything, I think it's more the energy attachment we have to our cards that give them "negative vibes" or energy overload. I'm more likely to ground and cleanse myself than my cards.

I don't really have a cleansing ritual for my cards, but I've never felt like I needed one.

 

At the end of the day, though, it's doing whatever you feel like works for you.

[Barleywine]

2 hours ago, Anesiadora said:

Honestly, I don't feel like cards hold as much energy as people may estimate. If anything, I think it's more the energy attachment we have to our cards that give them "negative vibes" or energy overload.

I agree. Our energy passes through them but doesn't linger. We "charge" them and then we "tap" them, after which they go back to being inert bits of cardboard. They're magical tools, nothing more or less.

[Raggydoll]

2 hours ago, Barleywine said:

I agree. Our energy passes through them but doesn't linger. We "charge" them and then we "tap" them, after which they go back to being inert bits of cardboard. They're magical tools, nothing more or less.

I think most people agree with that, unless they have a spiritual understanding that goes beyond it. For animists, shamans and spirit workers it is usually way more complex. I see my cards both as tools that help me tap into my gifts, as well as being infused with their own energies (best described as “tree spirit” from the cardboard used). And I do believe that they can be utilized as magical vessels for spirits. And the way they can be used in chaos magic or sympathetic magic also adds to this complexity. But that’s far beyond the topic of this thread, so I’ll try to rein myself in ☺️ It was just a very interesting discussion that I think deserves its own spot.