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Emilija

If You're a Witch/Wiccan, do You Believe In Angels?

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I just have a question for the practicing Pagans, Witches, Wiccans, etc. on this forum. I'm only seeking opinions, not looking to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

 

Do you believe in Angels in the craft? Do you work with angels?

 

I'm asking because some authors like Silver Ravenwolf and Fiona Horne have mentioned working with angels even though they are, or so I thought, and Abrahamic belief.

 

What are your thoughts?

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You can absolutely work with angels no matter what your faith is. I feel like if angels have been present in almost every faith in all times of history, only that they are sometimes named differently. I also know several people that work with archangels without being Christian or catholic. Benebell Wen is a great example of someone who paves her own path without losing respect for her family traditions or her cultural background. I have found much inspiration and encouragement from listening to her speak about spiritual topics on YouTube.  Personally I believe there is a source that is beyond gender. Then there are male and female aspects/expressions of that source; like for me the moon and the earth are female while the sun is male. But there are also corresponding male and female energies within us all too (we are a reflection of source but we are also of source. This means that we - and all of creation - is divine and has a spirit, in the way I see it) I perceive creation in a shamanistic and animistic way where there are theee worlds. In the lower world there are ancestral energies, power animals and echoes of the past, while in the upper world you have spirits, angels, deities etc. Then there is a middle world where I believe nature spirits live. (This is a very simplified version of my personal take on this. Just wanted to show you an example of how angels can fit in even in this sort of viewpoint!) I don’t pray to angels myself but I have communicated with them on behalf of other people and I hold great respect for the angelic sphere. 

 

 

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This is something I've struggled with a bit - because I brought up with a particular view of angels I have trouble seeing them outside that framework.

But in the same way that I can accept the spirit nature of trees, places, animals and so on, I can accept the presence of angels as "beings of light"

However, quite where they fit in my understanding of the levels of creation I'm not yet sure. So I can acknowledge them, but don't yet work with them - but perhaps that's my limitation?

I liked Raggydoll's interpretation too, thank you

 

 

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22 minutes ago, PathWalker said:

This is something I've struggled with a bit - because I brought up with a particular view of angels I have trouble seeing them outside that framework.

But in the same way that I can accept the spirit nature of trees, places, animals and so on, I can accept the presence of angels as "beings of light"

However, quite where they fit in my understanding of the levels of creation I'm not yet sure. So I can acknowledge them, but don't yet work with them - but perhaps that's my limitation?

I liked Raggydoll's interpretation too, thank you

 

 

'Beings of light' is such a wonderful description! That is very much how I view them too. They were never in human form (like most spirits were), but they are expressions as well as extensions of the light. I also believe they have a specific function, as mediators and messengers, but also as a sort of umbilical chord between the different parts of creation - particularly the ones that truly need it (mainly we humans that have advanced so far that we struggle to connect with source, and with our own divine identities). So it is like angels came into being as a result of Creation modifying itself. I think of creation as a web, so I believe that the web is flexible and is undergoing constant changes (I see every being is a co-creator, whether it is knowingly and intentional, or not..). I also believe that it is possible to access every part of the web, at any given moment - if you only know how to go about it and if your mind is in the right state to take it in and process it (there will be limitations as to how much we can take in or comprehend, of course. But it is something that we can work on and get better at. That is what I believe). But that is way beyond the topic of angels and more to do with "akashic records" and the like. So I won't wander off too far :love:  

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@Emilija you started such a great spiritual debate which has made me think. @PathWalker and @Raggydoll your replies were so beautiful and share my problems as well ❤️

 

I see Angels as a concept as relating to the Catholic Church where believing in Angels is important and they are named after the Saints. I was brought up as Church of England and so I have never learnt this structure or concept, I don't fully understand Saints and their names and different roles / functions and Angels but all I know as a concept is they are spiritual beings that help us.

 

Since I have been into divination, I have become much more open minded spirituality because I talk to and read for, people with different beliefs than mine a lot. So I listen to what they tell me about their beliefs and some believe in Angels. I think taking this into my own spirituality which is now Pagan / Wiccan, my belief is they are spiritual helper and protector beings on this earth, many religions and spiritual beliefs have them but don't call them Angels which for me is specifically Catholic dogma. I think a lot of different beliefs call them different names but they are the same thing, spiritual beings.

 

If you were strictly Pagan / Wiccan I think you would not follow the concept of Angels, you would probably see them as nature spirits on earth, tree spirits, anything like that. But my belief is open to whatever is out there and whilst I don't believe or fully understand the Angels as Saints concept, I think there are those beings around.

 

On my spiritual journey, I welcome in concepts and ideas from other religions, I take what I need for me and so I don't want to restrict myself to one system. I am open to it even if I don't fully take it all in yet. I think you can make your spirituality however you want because it's personal to you 🙂

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Wow. Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. The reason that I am asking is because I've been drawn to Wicca/Witchcraft, and I struggle to leave behind some things in my Muslim faith that have been real for me. A big part of my spiritual experiences has been protection by angels.  Like DJUK said, if I were to adopt a strict Wiccan framework, I probably wouldn't work with angels. But seeing angels in different cultures is something that I have I have to do some more research on. I have a book on angels and at first glance, they have angels in other cultures and religions, like Hinduism and Buddhism. Maybe I should give it a look over. I always thought of angels being an Abrahamic concept, but the Old Testament has some strong Babylonian and Persian influences, as well.

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This is indeed a very interesting and great topic. Thank you @Emilija for starting it! Coming from a very catholic up-bringing I too have a special connection with angels. And I agree with a lot what @Raggydoll says. Thanks for putting it so beautiful together. I too believe Angels have not lived/incarnated on earth but they are energy and they are too connected with source and created by source. We can talk to them like we can talk to any other spirit. They are here to help and guide us. But there are of course many other spirits we can call up on. I also like very much what @DanielJUK says. I tend to pick and choose what fits and works for me. And angels will always have a special place for me.

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Thank you @joy for sharing ❤️

 

I wanted to ask because you grew up with those beliefs, are Angels the Saints or different? and they were never on this earth is that right? so different to say ghosts which died and did once live on the earth? I think I get it all. You ask a specific Angel for help for a specific thing I thing? It's a fascinating topic ❤️

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3 hours ago, Emilija said:

Like DJUK said, if I were to adopt a strict Wiccan framework, I probably wouldn't work with angels.

The Archangles are assigned to the four directions in much Wiccan practice and are seen as guardians of the magical space created when casting a circle. You wouldn’t need to abandon them if you don’t want to. 

 

@DanielJUK, I was brought up Catholic but now follow a Druid path. The saints are an example of the early syncretism of the Christian Faith when it ran alongside pagan beliefs. I think the early saints are a form of ancestor worship translated through the lens of ‘one god’ who can work miracles. 

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On 5/14/2019 at 2:44 PM, DanielJUK said:

Thank you @joy for sharing ❤️

 

I wanted to ask because you grew up with those beliefs, are Angels the Saints or different? and they were never on this earth is that right? so different to say ghosts which died and did once live on the earth? I think I get it all. You ask a specific Angel for help for a specific thing I thing? It's a fascinating topic ❤️

In the Catholic church they are not Saints but they are messengers. The Pope canonizes Saints. Yeah that is true! Do not fully know how it works but anyone can really become a Saint, you need to have a case and The Pope will either accept or not.
Angels are the messengers. They work closely with God and bring his message to you.
Yes I believe Angels have never been on this earth, but that is my belief I am not sure how the Catholic Church deals with that. Well the Catholic Church does not believe in re-incarnation.
To me The Catholic Church has nothing to do with religion but it is a huge institution....
Catholics pray to both Angels and Saints. There are Saints for almost anything.

Does that help? It is about all I can think of without digging deeper.

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On 5/14/2019 at 3:07 AM, PathWalker said:

This is something I've struggled with a bit - because I brought up with a particular view of angels I have trouble seeing them outside that framework.

But in the same way that I can accept the spirit nature of trees, places, animals and so on, I can accept the presence of angels as "beings of light"

However, quite where they fit in my understanding of the levels of creation I'm not yet sure. So I can acknowledge them, but don't yet work with them - but perhaps that's my limitation?

I liked Raggydoll's interpretation too, thank you

 

 

 

I think you’ve summed up my feelings about it PathWalker. It’s hard to see outside a particular framework. I could see your point of seeing them as beings the same way you see spirits in nature.

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On 5/14/2019 at 8:27 AM, Emilija said:

 if I were to adopt a strict Wiccan framework, I probably wouldn't work with angels. 

a strict framework is the death of free thought and action. Worrying about rules someone one else made limits the scope of your life. 

When we let go of  one religion we often rush to another to fill in the space. 

When you design your own spirituality you may take what you want from everything, add your own necessities, and fly free. 

The idea of angels makes me fall down laughing but I talk to trees and greet and say goodby to my house all the time. 🙂

Set your own path, you will be so much happier and more fulfilled and confident in your own decisions. 

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thank you so much for sharing your personal takes on it @joy and @Flaxen you have helped me understand the concept :heart:

 

Thanks Joy that really helped to understand they are messengers and you can pray to God, Saints or Angels for what you need.

That is so interesting Flaxen about Angels and how they relate to Wiccan ancient Gods and Goddesses. I have seen that a lot with many religions where things are taken into their religious system from past systems. That does happen a lot in the UK with Wicca / Druidry from ancient traditions. My Parents were recently in Mexico City where the Virgin of Guadalupe is so important and it's thought she was taken from Aztec culture, originally called Tonantzin who was the Aztec Mother Goddess. She was taken into Catholicism but the colonising Spanish to help people leave their ancient religion 🙂 thanks for that info ❤️

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@DanielJUK you are most welcome. Interesting what you mention about the Virgin of Guadalupe. Unfortunately Catholics in their quest to convert people to the Catholic faith did a lot like what they did with Virgin of Guadalupe. I really would love to see the books in the Pope's vault....

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On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 6:30 AM, DanielJUK said:

My Parents were recently in Mexico City where the Virgin of Guadalupe is so important and it's thought she was taken from Aztec culture, originally called Tonantzin who was the Aztec Mother Goddess. She was taken into Catholicism but the colonising Spanish to help people leave their ancient religion 🙂 thanks for that info ❤️

That's so interesting DJUK, I didn't know that. I'm going to tell you guys a secret: I have a Guadalupe statue on my altar. I bought her from a metaphysical shop because I was so drawn to her. I learned something new<3

Edited by Emilija

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On 5/21/2019 at 3:27 PM, joy said:

@DanielJUK you are most welcome. Interesting what you mention about the Virgin of Guadalupe. Unfortunately Catholics in their quest to convert people to the Catholic faith did a lot like what they did with Virgin of Guadalupe. I really would love to see the books in the Pope's vault....

I’m thinking that the vault probably contains whatever books were rescued from the library of Alexandria. There are most likely several works there that could greatly impact mankind. 

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9 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I’m thinking that the vault probably contains whatever books were rescued from the library of Alexandria. There are most likely several works there that could greatly impact mankind. 

Right and who knows what else is in there! I find it very upsetting that always only one man is allowed to read them. Wondering if I should try to get a cleaning job? Surely someone other than the Pope has to clean it?

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Hm... this is quite a question. The way I see it, the abrahamic edifice is built upon Egyptian, Sumerian, Babylonian (especially the angels and demons bit), Canaanite, basically from the levant and its environs, myths and stories. So, given this angels and demons don't belong to the catholic church exclusively (heresy!) they are part of it as the Catholic Church picked up from its surroundings as it built its foundations. So, as a witch, a spiritist, and a magician (I feel iffy about categories, this is the best I could do) it is totally ok to work with angels. In caribbean folk traditions of spiritism, the archangels are seriously worked with and blended with other spirits of the mighty dead, et al. And, from the other side, I do not think most angels themselves have qualms with categorizations and who can pray to them and who cannot, in general

 

that's my two cents. 

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2 hours ago, joy said:

Right and who knows what else is in there! I find it very upsetting that always only one man is allowed to read them. Wondering if I should try to get a cleaning job? Surely someone other than the Pope has to clean it?

Haha! I believe they have specialists that make sure to preserve the books under the right conditions. Don’t think any regular cleaners would be allowed there, but I could be wrong 😉 If we are to believe in Dan Browns description then the vault is separated into sections with a high tech system that strictly regulates the levels of oxygen, humidity etc. Maybe you can apply to work there as a specialist that monitors the system? 😊

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2 hours ago, 40knows said:

Hm... this is quite a question. The way I see it, the abrahamic edifice is built upon Egyptian, Sumerian, Babylonian (especially the angels and demons bit), Canaanite, basically from the levant and its environs, myths and stories. So, given this angels and demons don't belong to the catholic church exclusively (heresy!) they are part of it as the Catholic Church picked up from its surroundings as it built its foundations. So, as a witch, a spiritist, and a magician (I feel iffy about categories, this is the best I could do) it is totally ok to work with angels. In caribbean folk traditions of spiritism, the archangels are seriously worked with and blended with other spirits of the mighty dead, et al. And, from the other side, I do not think most angels themselves have qualms with categorizations and who can pray to them and who cannot, in general

 

that's my two cents. 

Well said. I totally agree!

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Hmmm, as a witch for most of my life, I have always worked with angels. I used to follow a Wiccan path but found it too restrictive. I am now more of a trad/eclectic witch.

 

I practice hoodoo magic a lot and, saints and or/angels are called on quite often. I also work with Psalms often. It was a strange concept for me to grasp to begin with, but I have learned they definitely have their place in Witchcraft.

Edited by EtherealMoonRose

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