Jump to content

Are Crystals Alive?


Canid

Recommended Posts

43 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

I've been watching this thread, but not daring to post until now. So here's my take as a geologist and biologist... but not a materialist! 😊

 

I suspect a lot of people are talking at cross-purposes, because it depends entirely on what you mean by 'alive'. Definitions of life nowadays aren't based so much on lists of characters (growth, reproduction, etc.), but more usually on things like whether it undergoes evolution by natural selection (a surprisingly good definition, although it arguably includes languages!), or whether it maintains some form of homeostasis (i.e. maintains its own internal environment). So, while crystals fulfill some of the traditional aspects of the definition, they fail the modern understanding. When it comes to our biological definitions of life, therefore... they're clearly not alive. It's not a matter of opinion; it's just how we define life. We're not going to declare the discovery of extraterrestrial life whenever we find a crystal. :classic_wink:

   

However... there can of course be other ways of looking at this question, if we accept that we're talking about something else. The presence of some sort of spirit or soul in an object is a very different question, but of course is the basis of numerous animistic beliefs. I don't use the term 'energy' here, because it also has precise definitions, and anything that isn't at absolute zero by definition contains energy in the atomic bonds (and possibly even at absolute zero, given zero-point energy...). 'Energy' on its own means completely different things to different people, especially in forums like this... so what about 'spirit'?

    This is where there is no scientific definition, because there's acceptance that it exists. We probably all have different understandings of what the word means, related in some way to a non-physical part of our identity. Here's where there is scope for lots of variety. In various forms of animism, spirit (whether conscious or not) exists in everything; in which case, crystals (and raindrops, and hydrogen atoms, and black holes...) would be 'animate' in the sense of having some form of spirit that is bound within their margins. The question then becomes, I guess, whether crystals are more 'animate' than other inorganic things..?

   In that case, it's worth remembering what crystals are: just regularly ordered, homogeneous mineral structures. Mud is made of microscopic crystals. All rocks and minerals are made of crystals, except for a few exceptions like coal, opal and obsidian, which aren't regularly structured; native metals are (mostly) also not technically crystalline, but other than those, the entire solid surface of the surface is either organic or crystalline. Sometimes, they're both: sugar forms crystals too, of course. 

    You can probably see where I'm going with this... :biggrin:  To me, there's nothing special about crystals. That's not to say that they're not wonderful things, or even that they're not 'animate' (in the spirit sense)... but I simply don't see any reason to focus on these above clouds, or mud, or rocks, or molecules. We're all part of one geosphere, and the cyclicity of existence applies just as much to crystals as to anything else. Rocks are formed, eroded, altered, reformed... and crystals of today are just the latest manifestation of the atoms that make them up. I think we lose touch with the whole if we focus on (what has always been) an attractive detail, and which is now also a mass-marketed fashion. 

 

 I also find the mass marketing of crystals extremely distasteful, and I'm completely with Raggydoll and Marigold here! For me, buying polished stones for their 'spirit' when we have no idea who suffered in the sordid details of mining, extraction and processing of the rocks, let alone the wholesale quarrying of the landscape, environmental pollution, and so on... well, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I've worked a bit in Morocco, and the scale of some of the industry is extraordinary... and occasionally soul-destroying. Much, much better is to spend time really getting to know your local world, and all the aspects within it. If you find a stone or a crystal that calls to you, and helps to focus your mind, then wonderful... but don't assign to it powers that other people tell you it should have, and always remember what it is, and where it fits into the great cycles of the world. The world itself is an interwoven tapestry of all things, living and non-living, 'animate' or otherwise; it's the whole, and the interrelationships that matter, and no one part is more important than others.  

 

Just my thoughts; I hope no-one is offended if they disagree! :smiley:

 

 

 

I’m glad you chimed in! And I agree that crystals or stones aren’t any more special than soil or grass or wind - those all have spirit to me. But I do feel that the communication that is possible with these different entities will differ based on their very nature. So rocks are in my opinion good because they typically don’t move around like air does and they don’t constantly get mowed like grass does. So in that sense I find them great to work with. I also find that they are more of ‘record keepers’ than for example flowers. But soil and trees are great record keepers too. Again, these are just my experiences and current understandings, I don’t intend to present them as universal truths 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Marigold said:

I was aware of this and it's why I stopped buying crystals many years ago before the current fad.

4 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I still use crystals though, but I try to limit my consumption and be mindful of where I source them. I have used a lot of crystal beads for jewelry in the past but I am beginning to experiment with also using seed-beads, wooden beads and other alternatives alongside the crystals. And I like the contrasts you get with different materials 🙂 

I tend to trawl my local charity shops. Reduce, reuse, recycle and all that.

3 hours ago, Wanderer said:

Much, much better is to spend time really getting to know your local world, and all the aspects within it. If you find a stone or a crystal that calls to you, and helps to focus your mind, then wonderful... but don't assign to it powers that other people tell you it should have, and always remember what it is, and where it fits into the great cycles of the world. The world itself is an interwoven tapestry of all things, living and non-living, 'animate' or otherwise; it's the whole, and the interrelationships that matter, and no one part is more important than others. 

My thoughts exactly. And seemingly my little boy takes after me and we always come home with my pockets full of feathers, twigs, leaves, pebbles and other treasures - some of them are even his 😅

 

( @Raggydoll yes I should be working again! I just prefer it here 😁)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, ilweran said:

I was aware of this and it's why I stopped buying crystals many years ago before the current fad.

I tend to trawl my local charity shops. Reduce, reuse, recycle and all that.

That’s great! We basically never have crystals in our charity shops. I wish we did!!

3 minutes ago, ilweran said:

My thoughts exactly. And seemingly my little boy takes after me and we always come home with my pockets full of feathers, twigs, leaves, pebbles and other treasures - some of them are even his 😅

 

( @Raggydoll yes I should be working again! I just prefer it here 😁)

😘❤️❤️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got some really good ones near me - off the top of my head I've found a couple of lapis chip necklaces, a long labradorite necklace, rose quartz hearts bracelet, malachite and garnet necklaces, lots of little bracelets (amethyst, peridot, malachite etc.) a fair bit of tigerseye, all gets turned into something new.

 

They occasionally have chunks of various rocks or eggs and other shapes, some very nice, but I'm mainly interested in the jewellery. And there are some lovely rocks down on the beach, I have some I keep meaning to wirewrap but haven't got round to it yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, ilweran said:

My thoughts exactly. And seemingly my little boy takes after me and we always come home with my pockets full of feathers, twigs, leaves, pebbles and other treasures - some of them are even his 😅

 

Wonderful! Didn't we all start out like that? 😄

 

2 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I’m glad you chimed in! And I agree that crystals or stones aren’t any more special than soil or grass or wind - those all have spirit to me. But I do feel that the communication that is possible with these different entities will differ based on their very nature. So rocks are in my opinion good because they typically don’t move around like air does and they don’t constantly get mowed like grass does. So in that sense I find them great to work with. I also find that they are more of ‘record keepers’ than for example flowers. But soil and trees are great record keepers too. Again, these are just my experiences and current understandings, I don’t intend to present them as universal truths 🙂

Yes, that's an interesting aspect, too! I know what you're saying about 'record-keeping'; the apparent permanence of crystals seems to make them more able to sustain something within them, compared with the transience of the rain or wind, which is always reforming itself. However... do they just retain 'memory' of different things, and in different ways? Right now, there is a molecule in your lungs that was once breathed by Julius Caesar... and the nature of the grass now is dictated by what it has experienced, whether mowing or growing, grazing or whatever. But then, isn't that true of us all?

    I think something that is critical, and very confusing, is the appearance of boundaries. A rock seems to have a 'self': it has edges, and is separated from other rocks. Except, of course, that until recently it wasn't: it was part of a continuum of rocky existence, which has since been separated from it. I often wonder whether the real strength of 'spirit' in a thing is dependent mostly on its connections, whether present or past. (I'm still pondering my staff, and some of the roots--connections-- are absolutely demanding to be retained...). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Wanderer said:

Wonderful! Didn't we all start out like that? 😄

One would hope so. Many people seem to grow out if it though but I never have 😄

 

I've been told I have the nicest desk in my office. There's origami flowers and boxes, pebbles, stones, feathers, twigs, pine cones, a chestnut, 'dragons egg' crystal, a couple of soapstone boxes and I have a few handmade by me things hanging on my notice board along with some of my photos.  I'm surrounded by like minded people though, luckily!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting topic.

I often have a crystal of some sort around my neck, for various purposes.

As for their aliveness, I see something in them, an energy in a way.

Though for me that energy is created when I encounter the crystal and interact with it.

I'm not really sure that the energy would be there without me the observer.

Sort of like the question if a tree falls in the forest, but no one is there to witness it.

Does it then make a sound?

Does the crystal do anything without me?

 

This of course opens a Pandora's box of philosophy and such.

From the stance of philosophy we often find that there is always an opposing view,

and that it isn't obvious outside of our own point of view who is actually objectively right.

If anyone could even be said to claim that title at all.

Empiricism, Materialism, Rationalism, Realism, Phenomenology etc etc

All have their own take on what is up with the crystal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to add to this first, but I will go through all the posts a little bit later.  Got about halfway through the first page.  I think everything is conscious.  I've really started to understand the concept of us being energy beings first, physical beings second.  There was a documentary I saw once that was explaining ancient beliefs and they described the elements as being the solidified wavelengths or bands of God's emotions (and when I say God I mean THE ALL MIND or...  just try not to be thrown off by that word I don't mean some separate being in the sky, I mean the original mind from which our minds are tiny sparks) but yeah the idea was that like, God was this immense and infinite energy that contained tons of rays etc, and then as though shone through a prism, the energy separates into wavelengths, the wavelengths became solid, and the elements evolved.  

 

If this is true, you could say the crystals hold the original emotions of Source, and they have proven they have memory.  If someone says they don't contain memory, you can literally just show them that crystals are how computers store memory.  This is a fact.  Crystals hold memory.  So then the question becomes.... are they aware of us?  Are they aware of anything?  I know that sometimes when I'm in the right state of mind and I stare into some of my crystals, there is a strong sense of returned awareness.  But that of course proves nothing, but most of these spiritual and shamanistic beliefs can't be proven, they can however be experienced.  It's really crazy when you think about it, it seems as if it is this way by design.  WHen it comes to the deepest and most transcendental truths on this planet, anyone who goes looking for them can experience them and prove them true for themselves, but there is never anything to bring back and show the village, he/she just becomes the wide eyed crazy person babbling on about talking trees and everyone thinks they're crazy, except in those rare societies where they see a shaman or an oracle instead.  


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/26/2020 at 8:54 AM, devin said:

---post deleted for reasons pertaining to the preservation of personal dignity---

LOL.
Now I'm curious...😈
No, don't tell me. I probably don't want to know, lol!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, katrinka said:

LOL.
Now I'm curious...😈
No, don't tell me. I probably don't want to know, lol!

My advice, don't get your hopes up.

 

I copied in a post I made on another forum a few years ago talking about how animism has had a recent revival in intellectual and philosophical circles through the theory of panpsychism. Basically, panpsychism has been put forward as a solution to the problem of how you get consciousness from dead matter. It positions consciousness as a basic property of existence with even particles having a very simple 'perspective' or interior life from which they react. As things get more complicated (a particle turns into an atom, turns into a molecule, etc.) the individual 'intelligences' come together to form a higher intelligence that is more than the sum of its parts. Now, if 'complexity' is a requirement of intelligence, I can't help but wonder if it's not at all possible that very complex systems like forests, oceans, stars, etc. might not have their own forms of consciousness. And since we all occasionally seem to make contact with the minds of others through dreams, intuitions and the like, I wonder if it might not be possible to interact in some way with non-human consciousnesses. But, under this scheme, crystals would have a problem as they are not complex, but rather simple affairs.

 

But since what I initially posted was copied in and part of a much longer conversation, it came across as confusing, slightly unbalanced, and egotistical. So I decided to save my self and others the indignity.

 

See, I should have left it hanging!

Edited by devin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, devin said:

My advice, don't get your hopes up.

 

I copied in a post I made on another forum a few years ago talking about how animism has had a recent revival in intellectual and philosophical circles through the theory of panpsychism. Basically, panpsychism has been put forward as a solution to the problem of how you get consciousness from dead matter. It positions consciousness as a basic property of existence with even particles having a very simple 'perspective' or interior life from which they react. As things get more complicated (a particle turns into an atom, turns into a molecule, etc.) the individual 'intelligences' come together to form a higher intelligence that is more than the sum of its parts. Now, if 'complexity' is a requirement of intelligence, I can't help but wonder if it's not at all possible that very complex systems like forests, oceans, stars, etc. might no have their of consciousness. And since we all occasionally seem to make contact with the minds of others through dreams, intuitions and the like, I wonder if it might not be possible to interact in some way with non-human consciousnesses. But, under this scheme, crystals would have a problem as they are not complex, but rather simple affairs.

 

But since what I initially posted was copied in and part of a much longer conversation, it came across as confusing, slightly unbalanced, and egotistical. So I decided to save my self and others the indignity.

 

See, I should have left it hanging!

FINALLY I can say what I've been wanting to say!!  I was already subscribed to this thread when you posted it, so I got an E-mail as soon as you did, that means I was able to read the e-mail even after you had edited this post, so I know what you wrote.  I found it very interesting, and didn't understand what you were uncomfortable about at all I really enjoyed the post.  I mean yeah it was pretty deep and a little hard to understand but um... I think most anything written on the topic of "can crystals feel or sense anything" is gonna be a little out there haha  But I kept holding my tongue cause I didn't wanna draw attention to it if you didn't want that and I didn't wanna seem like I was pressuring you to post it.  

 

Thanks for poking at it Katrinka it was driving me nuts not being able to say that lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Symph said:

FINALLY I can say what I've been wanting to say!!  I was already subscribed to this thread when you posted it, so I got an E-mail as soon as you did, that means I was able to read the e-mail even after you had edited this post, so I know what you wrote.  I found it very interesting, and didn't understand what you were uncomfortable about at all I really enjoyed the post.  I mean yeah it was pretty deep and a little hard to understand but um... I think most anything written on the topic of "can crystals feel or sense anything" is gonna be a little out there haha  But I kept holding my tongue cause I didn't wanna draw attention to it if you didn't want that and I didn't wanna seem like I was pressuring you to post it.  

 

Thanks for poking at it Katrinka it was driving me nuts not being able to say that lol

I always did like you. But seriously, thanks for being so considerate! This is such an interesting thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, devin said:

I always did like you. But seriously, thanks for being so considerate! This is such an interesting thread.

D'aweee thanks 🥰  And yeah these types of threads always fascinate me when they're not whooshing straight over my head hahahaha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.