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How Many Here Consider Themselves Witches or....


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aquarhapsody

I call myself a Witch, and see myself as such, but don't really tell many people IRL seeing as I live in an very conservative anti-witch, anti-spiritual, anti-tarot, anti-anything different state in the middle of the Bible Belt. My family would probably disown me if they knew I had a spiritual practice that used candles and invoked spirits of the natural world. 

 

I don't like the term Wiccan as I don't really have a "goddess/god" element in my practice, nor do I use a lot of the traditional invocations or celebrate the Sabbats and Esbats. I think Wiccans are a more organized group than what I consider myself.

 

I practice spellcraft, it's become a part of my life just as tarot has. I don't see myself as a witch BECAUSE of Tarot I see myself as a witch who USES tarot in her workings, in her daily life, and as a means of helping others when I can. 

I came into this space out of a period of great failure, great self-imprisonment, doubt, and disempowerment. 

This label of "witch" not only is sort of a declaration of discovering and finding power through my spiritual practice, but also one of feeling a connection with those who, in the past, were shunned by those who were around them; friends, family, church leaders. I think for someone living a double life like me and others, it's something we take pride in being able to state as a positive.

 

To me, the label witch isn't really something I scoff at or question; most people I have met in person who use it really sort of understand the weight and the meaning it holds in the South, and that is also partially why they use it. They don't "look like witches" and have a myriad of backgrounds, from African-American hoodoo roots, to white Baptist upbringings, to traditional Jewish upbringings. 

 

I do understand the fact that it's become a bit of an aesthetic to be "witchy", and while that can be annoying, I know people who are genuine about their practice and just like that aesthetic, fashion and room-wise.

 

I mean, I have cornered the 90's sweater/grunge aesthetic and I definitely was only 7 when the 90s ended haha

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On 2/19/2020 at 7:05 AM, xTheHermitx said:

And it always seems like the people yelling the loudest about the Bible or dogmatic elements of a religion have the last amount of knowledge of the karmic elements of the same religion

So true. 

On 2/20/2020 at 6:11 AM, xTheHermitx said:

oh absolutely...I may be biased because I am one, but I feel like most of the metalheads I know are way more "moral" than the mainstream people I know. And way more honest. Same with punx . A lot of the mainstreamers I deal with are scheming, selfish, uninformed, shallow and super judgmental... 

I was inclined to disagree with this. But then I remembered that from my late teens I started going almost exclusively to metal/goth clubs because they had better vibes (if not music, imo) and waaay less fights (almost none, actually) than the usual places. Man, I tell ya, those mainstream clubs were bedlam when I was a kid!

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On 2/23/2020 at 9:57 PM, xTheHermitx said:

that is reality....reality is good and evil. Reality is pleasant and violent. I think the bigger issue is ignoring one element b/c it is uncomfortable. If you ignore evil, then your life will be out of balance, and to me, Balance is the supreme power. When things are out of balance, then bad things happen.

 

Also, some of Slayer's lyrics were just schtick..like Kiss, or 50 Cent or anyone who is looking for something to add to the musical experience. But a lot of them are how they feel/felt about current events at the time. Believe it or not, they are super anti war....probably more than half of their songs are about calling out the govt for exploiting and promoting war; about the govt suppressing people...

 

I am a HUGE Slayer fan, and honestly, their lyrics are less grotesque, violent, and Satanic than most mainstream pop media. I personally am more offended by the litany of negative content in Disney channel movies/ tv shows, country music, and network tv programming, Super Bowl halftimes, Social Media etc...

 

I have never understood why most mainstream music (country, hip hop, rap, alternative, pop) blatantly promote misogyny, drug use, drinking, absolute disrespect for everything, selfishness, "woe-is-me" kind of blithering; racism, materialism, classism.... and are completely acceptable

 

...I personally think metal and punk are the least offensive genres for the most part because they are honest...there is nothing to hide. And yes, there are genres that also promote the same things as above, but they don't lie about it either...you know what you are getting when you listen to Goregrind music; or Powerviolence...even Neo-Nazi Skinhead punk openly advertises what it is about...

 

And don't get me started with religion/churches...at least Slayer (and like bands) is not trying to hide one message in another.

All of this.
I just want to add that all of that "satanic" music came into being during the 80's, i.e., the rise of the religious right AKA dominionism. 
You started seeing people pointing the finger and saying that every little thing was satanic and evil. Absurd things, like the P&G logo (which they actually succeeded in getting taken off.) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trademark-of-the-devil/

And musicians got blamed every time a kid did something stupid. Judas Priest actually got dragged to court over this BS https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/judas-priests-subliminal-message-trial-rob-halford-looks-back-57552/
(I watched a doc about that case. The kids' families were seriously messed up. Religions fanatics who would beat them for things like smoking weed.) Ozzie wrote a song about cocktails ("Suicide Solution" - the solution is the MIX) that essentially said "Drinking can be dangerous" and people tried to say he was making kids kill themselves. They didn't bother to see what the songs were actually about, they just seized on anything they could, or, that failing, blamed "subliminal messages."

Even the so-called "left" was in on it, remember Tipper Gore and the PMRC? (I think that pushed a lot of people over to the GOP, and you can see where THAT particular path collectively got us. 🤢)

(Before that, the Big Boogie Man was drugs. The Beatles got accused of drug lyrics all the time. They denied it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds
(I think Lucy actually IS a drug song. But it's not hurting anything.) In the 80's, EVERYTHING was the devil. Geraldo cashed in, and daycare workers were falsely accused of satanic ritual abuse. https://www.vox.com/2016/10/30/13413864/satanic-panic-ritual-abuse-history-explained

Anyway, in the midst of all that insanity, along comes Slayer and their ilk. It was actually a breath of fresh air: rational, functioning adults . It was THEATER, just like ten years before when Alice Cooper used to dismember a baby doll as part of his stage act. It wasn't intended that we act out the behavior. It was for FUN. And if it freaked out the religious extremists, good. 

Kind of a "So you think Rob Halford made those guys shoot themselves? You think a logo on a toothpaste tube is going to open a portal to hell? 😝😝😝IN YOUR FACE!!!"


 

We could move through the morass of people trying to shove Jack Chick tracts at us and recruit us, and take comfort in South of Heaven, lol. They must have been laughing until it hurt when they wrote that:
"Your b*****d sons begat your c***ing daughters, promiscuous mothers with their incestuous fathers..."

 

Capture.JPG.2fd9987b09888bc1e03ab0a9fde74cbf.JPG

 

Quote

And dad was (unknowingly) Pagan, 

I think a lot of people are unknowingly pagan. I'e heard so many say thing like "My church is the woods."

Edited by katrinka
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20 minutes ago, devin said:

I was inclined to disagree with this. But then I remembered that from my late teens I started going almost exclusively to metal/goth clubs because they had better vibes (if not music, imo) and waaay less fights (almost none, actually) than the usual places. Man, I tell ya, those mainstream clubs were bedlam when I was a kid!

Yeah. The punks and metalheads got their yayas out in the pit, moshing, stage diving. 
The mainstreamers had no such outlet. 

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5 hours ago, katrinka said:

Yeah. The punks and metalheads got their yayas out in the pit, moshing, stage diving. 
The mainstreamers had no such outlet. 

I think this topic has strayed from it's original question - to the stage that honestly I don't understand a word of your quote Katrinka  🙂 Is that the difference in English/USA language? Or an age thing perhaps?

 

Can we get back on topic, or could the whole other conversation go into a new thread?

 

Thank

PathWalker

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3 hours ago, PathWalker said:

I think this topic has strayed from it's original question - to the stage that honestly I don't understand a word of your quote Katrinka  🙂 Is that the difference in English/USA language? Or an age thing perhaps?

 

Can we get back on topic, or could the whole other conversation go into a new thread?

 

Thank

PathWalker

I shall translate:

 

Yeah. The punks and metalheads got their yayas out in the pit, moshing, stage diving. 
The mainstreamers had no such outlet. 

 

=

 

Yes. Young men who attend nightclubs whose playlists feature punk and heavy metal music get their aggression out by jumping up and down on the dance floor. At establishments that do not offer this facility, one has to resort to throwing punches and breaking chairs to deal with said excess aggression. 

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2 hours ago, devin said:

I shall translate:

 

Yeah. The punks and metalheads got their yayas out in the pit, moshing, stage diving. 
The mainstreamers had no such outlet. 

 

=

 

Yes. Young men who attend nightclubs whose playlists feature punk and heavy metal music get their aggression out by jumping up and down on the dance floor. At establishments that do not offer this facility, one has to resort to throwing punches and breaking chairs to deal with said excess aggression. 

Bwahahahahahaha yes, yes indeed, couldn't have said it better myself...

giphy.gif

 

I'm always finding myself with too much to do before work to really dive into these conversations like I want to, all I can say is that this has been one hell of an eye opening thread for me, @katrinka I wasn't old enough to really understand what was going on in the 80's when metal was under attack by the fundies, I lived in a fundie household so my memories of that time were just "Oh no!!  Satanic music is taking over and people are killing each other because of it!  I gotta be good and stay away from it!"  I literally would get these terribly eerie and fearful feelings when my friends would play Korn or any other form of metal.  I was super sensitive to lyrics too, even the Violent Femmes made me uncomfortable and now they're one of my favorite bands.  So cool to really get to understand how things looked from the other side's perspective, and so frustrating to know that I avoided so many things as a child because of fears placed in me before I could understand what was going on.  Grrr... kinda makes me mad now to be honest...

 

Now getting back on topic, @aquarhapsody  Your post was also very cool to hear.  That's how Kelly Ann-Maddox (a popular youtube witch/tarot reader) describes her feelings on owning that word.  It's about taking back one's own power, walking your own path, and giving a bit of a middle finger to the world that told you you shouldn't do that.  Perfectly valid, not the route I'd like to go, but valid none the less.  

 

 

 

Edited by Symph
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Yes. And we started seeing a lot of Wicca stuff in the 80's - early 90's too. I think that was also a pushback, a reaction. Prior to that, witches were eccentric people in England that you read about, who went gathering herbs naked, lol. Then it was suddenly everywhere and people were wearing pentacles. 

 

Not trying to go OT. Just sayin'. 😉

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xTheHermitx

guilty of some of the stray!!!

 

definitely agree with all of @katrinka RE the post above! We are coming from the same world...

 

and my dad ALWAYS used to say that he "found God" in the woods...

 

I feel like my earliest memories - in 1970's Midwest America -  of "witches"was the eccentric neighbors in our hood...the older ones, who we would rarely see outside. Their houses were not as kept up, and the yards were scragly. As I got older, I found out that they were all vefy nice, and usually lonely people. They ended up being the people whose lawns I mowed, or snow I shoveled.

 

And my mom's friend group, who were probably more like the "New Agers" of the 60's...they were into Transcendental Meditation, Yoga, Astral Projection and Tarot. I remember my mom's friend Diane lived in a haunted house, and "introduced" me to my first ghost...an apparition of a man who "lived" in their attic...they always did their stuff at her house

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1 hour ago, AJ-ish/Sharyn said:

not sure what planet some of the posters are from...just saying, no one speaks for everyone, or remembers everything through the same lens

Do you mean moi? I was making social observations, not putting words in anyone's mouth. 
Of course everyone is going to have their own experience. I was speaking about people collectively, society, and what was trending in the 80's. A lot changed then. 
No need for the planet business, though. That's a bit uncalled for.

28 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

guilty of some of the stray!!!

It's a bit of a thread drift (and mea culpa!) but I think it's germane to the subject. 
When I was a kid, most people didn't really seem to think much about changing their religious affiliations. They identified as what they were raised to be, even if they were non-practicing. I've heard professed atheists say "We're Methodist" or what-have you. The church was only there for weddings and funerals, in many cases.

That's changed, as you can see from all the people calling themselves witches and pagans. And I think it's a step in the right direction, because people are considering what their actual beliefs are and not just conforming to some social convention. 

28 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

I feel like my earliest memories - in 1970's Midwest America -  of "witches"was the eccentric neighbors in our hood...the older ones, who we would rarely see outside. Their houses were not as kept up, and the yards were scragly. As I got older, I found out that they were all vefy nice, and usually lonely people. They ended up being the people whose lawns I mowed, or snow I shoveled.

We had those. 
I can actually subdivide them: strange old people that the kids were scared of (think of the kids at the beginning of "Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte") and people who practiced folk magic. We had some hoodoo people, and a guy of German extraction who cured people and was said to have used magic to catch a  burglar. People said the perpetrator was actually "stuck to the doorknob." (All of these folk magic people professed Christianity, though.) 

As an adult, I discovered Pennsylvania Dutch pow wow magic, and I wonder if that's what the German guy was doing, or if he was doing hoodoo. I should see if the family is on the ancestry site, as most of our local Germans were from the Rhine Valley and not the Black Forest. IIRC, the Pennsylvania Dutch immigrated from the Black Forest?

28 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

And my mom's friend group, who were probably more like the "New Agers" of the 60's...they were into Transcendental Meditation, Yoga, Astral Projection and Tarot. I remember my mom's friend Diane lived in a haunted house, and "introduced" me to my first ghost...an apparition of a man who "lived" in their attic...they always did their stuff at her house

LOL, yes, it was happening then. Uri Geller bending spoons (faker though he turned out to be.) People weren't quite calling themselves witches yet, but the interest was definitely there. 🙂 

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10 hours ago, PathWalker said:

I think this topic has strayed from it's original question - to the stage that honestly I don't understand a word of your quote Katrinka  🙂 Is that the difference in English/USA language? Or an age thing perhaps?

Hi PW. 🙂
You're in Glastonbury? I was under the impression that they have a thriving music scene. Or maybe it's an age thing, IDK. 
I'm old, I remember a lot of stuff. 
Anyway, Devin has defined it beautifully. I have only to add that stage diving is when a guy launches himself at the stage and security throws him back into the crowd. And there's another thing called crowd surfing, which is pretty much what it sounds like. 

When you have outlets like that, there is no need for this:
 


OK, back on topic. 

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xTheHermitx
4 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

It's a bit of a thread drift (and mea culpa!) but I think it's germane to the subject. 
When I was a kid, most people didn't really seem to think much about changing their religious affiliations. They identified as what they were raised to be, even if they were non-practicing. I've heard professed atheists say "We're Methodist" or what-have you. The church was only there for weddings and funerals, in many cases.

That's changed, as you can see from all the people calling themselves witches and pagans. And I think it's a step in the right direction, because people are considering what their actual beliefs are and not just conforming to some social convention. 

We had those. 
I can actually subdivide them: strange old people that the kids were scared of (think of the kids at the beginning of "Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte") and people who practiced folk magic. We had some hoodoo people, and a guy of German extraction who cured people and was said to have used magic to catch a  burglar. People said the perpetrator was actually "stuck to the doorknob." (All of these folk magic people professed Christianity, though.) 

As an adult, I discovered Pennsylvania Dutch pow wow magic, and I wonder if that's what the German guy was doing, or if he was doing hoodoo. I should see if the family is on the ancestry site, as most of our local Germans were from the Rhine Valley and not the Black Forest. IIRC, the Pennsylvania Dutch immigrated from the Black Forest?

LOL, yes, it was happening then. Uri Geller bending spoons (faker though he turned out to be.) People weren't quite calling themselves witches yet, but the interest was definitely there. 🙂 

 

How do you split up the quotes when you reply? I don't know ho to do that on this board?

 

RE: most people didn't really seem to think much about changing their religious affiliations

I am definitely a child of that era, and it is funny that as non-religious as I have been, and for as long as I have been that way, I still don't deny some of my Swedish/Germanic Lutheran "pride"...and that might be more wrapped up in the non-religious social side of growing up in that world. The food, the gatherings, the traditions...and often, now that I am older, I feel like I just added my Asatru/Norse homage to the Lutheran stuff...or more correctly, re-replaced the original gods in place of the Christian gods...

 

on Christmas Eve/Yule I still go to our old church with my mom b/c they do the late service all in German, and all in candle light. The church is decorated up all "medieval" style, with evergreens, holly, 2 (fake) trees on ether side of the altar, and one is completely covered in Pagan decorations (it has an eagle, a bunch of reindeer, the top knot is what looks like a raven to me....). The other tree has more traditional Germanic Christmas ornaments on it....the whole thing is steeped in absolute Pagan celebration, and I often wonder if someone in charge there is saying something....

 

 I have had many emotional moments at that service as it culminates with  the Choir director singing Silent Night in German in a really haunting bass voice near the end...

 

RE: crazy old people:

I feel like I am slowly becoming one of those people...many of the people in the neighborhood call me "The Shepherd", 'The Wizard" or the "Outdoorsy Guy" because I like to be outside and in nature a lot. In the spring and fall, I will often times pitch the tent in the backyard, and sleep outside; I am sort of the caretaker of the trash cans, and I mow all of the adjacent yards - usually in my metal  and pun t-shirts, which "scare" some of the peeps in our little circle. Only our next door neighbors know that I study occult because she is from Mississippi, and has relatives who practice Voodoo down there and also read Tarot

 

For a while, I started studying Hex Signs of Pennsylvania b/c my mom told me they are Germanic in nature, but it was just one more  "iron in the fire" that I couldn't focus on, so I left it. I need to get back into that here this spring possibly. And also, knowing the neighbor is closely realted to a Voodoo practitioner really makes me want to sit with her and talk about that more...not enough time in the day!!

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22 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

 

How do you split up the quotes when you reply? I don't know ho to do that on this board?

Easy, and there's two ways of doing it:


1. You quote the whole post, put your cursor after the bit you want to reply to, and hit "Enter" a couple of times. That splits it right up.

2. Alternately, if you just want to quote a little bit, highlight the text you want to quote. a little bit of text should appear that says "Quote selection" and you just click that. 

22 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

RE: most people didn't really seem to think much about changing their religious affiliations

I am definitely a child of that era, and it is funny that as non-religious as I have been, and for as long as I have been that way, I still don't deny some of my Swedish/Germanic Lutheran "pride"...and that might be more wrapped up in the non-religious social side of growing up in that world. The food, the gatherings, the traditions...and often, now that I am older, I feel like I just added my Asatru/Norse homage to the Lutheran stuff...or more correctly, re-replaced the original gods in place of the Christian gods...

A lot of it WAS social. "Oh, that's the (insert name), my grandpa went to school with their grandpa, our kids are in class together..."
That hasn't really had time to take hold in contemporary paganism. And everyone is so mobile now, that it might not happen. It's too bad, in a way. There's something to be said for it. 
And the gatherings (and the food!) were something else. Even the local Catholic church used to have a Halloween carnival.

22 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

on Christmas Eve/Yule I still go to our old church with my mom b/c they do the late service all in German, and all in candle light. The church is decorated up all "medieval" style, with evergreens, holly, 2 (fake) trees on ether side of the altar, and one is completely covered in Pagan decorations (it has an eagle, a bunch of reindeer, the top knot is what looks like a raven to me....). The other tree has more traditional Germanic Christmas ornaments on it....the whole thing is steeped in absolute Pagan celebration, and I often wonder if someone in charge there is saying something....

I don't know what they're saying, but it sounds beautiful.

22 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said:

For a while, I started studying Hex Signs of Pennsylvania b/c my mom told me they are Germanic in nature, but it was just one more  "iron in the fire" that I couldn't focus on, so I left it. I need to get back into that here this spring possibly. And also, knowing the neighbor is closely realted to a Voodoo practitioner really makes me want to sit with her and talk about that more...not enough time in the day!!

It's not about hex signs, but you may find this interesting: https://www.sacred-texts.com/ame/pow/index.htm

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xTheHermitx
6 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Easy, and there's two ways of doing it:


1. You quote the whole post, put your cursor after the bit you want to reply to, and hit "Enter" a couple of times. That splits it right up.

2. Alternately, if you just want to quote a little bit, highlight the text you want to quote. a little bit of text should appear that says "Quote selection" and you just click that. 

cool...just used the double return way...this is much easier than in the other forums I go on. Thank you!!!

6 minutes ago, katrinka said:

A lot of it WAS social. "Oh, that's the (insert name), my grandpa went to school with their grandpa, our kids are in class together..."
That hasn't really had time to take hold in contemporary paganism. And everyone is so mobile now, that it might not happen. It's too bad, in a way. There's something to be said for it. 

 

that is definitely true...how mobile we are, and also, how solitary society has become. Everyone is used to living , and doing things on their own, and with their phone friends, so being social is way different now.

6 minutes ago, katrinka said:

 

I don't know what they're saying, but it sounds beautiful.

Yeah, I know very little German, and have recently started self learning Swedish. I feel like I should know that language for sure...and that will help with German

6 minutes ago, katrinka said:

It's not about hex signs, but you may find this interesting: https://www.sacred-texts.com/ame/pow/index.htm

 

bookmarked that site...one more thing to look at!!! Thanks!!!

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8 hours ago, AJ-ish/Sharyn said:

not sure what planet some of the posters are from...just saying, no one speaks for everyone, or remembers everything through the same lens

I understand what you are trying to say, but the way you are saying it comes across a bit offensive. Why not simply share your own experiences instead of calling other people aliens when they share theirs? 

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18 hours ago, devin said:

I shall translate:

 

Yeah. The punks and metalheads got their yayas out in the pit, moshing, stage diving. 
The mainstreamers had no such outlet. 

 

=

 

Yes. Young men who attend nightclubs whose playlists feature punk and heavy metal music get their aggression out by jumping up and down on the dance floor. At establishments that do not offer this facility, one has to resort to throwing punches and breaking chairs to deal with said excess aggression. 

Thank you :classic_smile: I genuinely had no idea what it meant.

 

 

I also keep thinking of the punks I knew in the 70's. Had you suggested to them they'd like to "get their yayas in the moshi pit" they'd have punched you too LOL!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/c5/24/57c52495729bc4c1a73331018df2215a.jpg

 

Edited by PathWalker
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2 minutes ago, PathWalker said:

Thank you :classic_smile: I genuinely had no idea what it meant.

Still doesn't seem much related to the topic of "Are you a witch" though :classic_smile:

 

10 hours ago, katrinka said:

Hi PW. 🙂
You're in Glastonbury? I was under the impression that they have a thriving music scene. Or maybe it's an age thing, IDK. 
 


 

There are all sorts of thriving scenes in Glastonbury, true. But of course one only visits the ones that appeal. Most venues in town are fairly small, pubs and halls you know? The festival itself takes place miles away, and is hellish expensive; I've never been.

And it was the words I didn't understand - a kind of very specific speech I guess, and it meant nothing to me. had my daughter been here I'm sure she would have translated LOL

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I've had a lot of trouble taking Wiccans seriously, it's probably just the brand of wiccans I've met, but I feel like when I meet people who identify as pagan, they are usually quite serious about their connection with the earth, and quite learned about things like potion crafting or herbs or magical practice, there seems to be a reverence there.  They usually dress in an earthy fashion that fits with their attitude and I'm like "ok that's cool I get you".  But I'd say most of the Wiccan's I've met?  It's more just "Oooo look at how witchy I am with my loads of makeup and hair dye and tons of piercings and don't you find me badass and scary cause do magic???"  I dunno.... my wife and I have had this conversation before and agree that a lot of wiccans we've seen just seem to want attention and it seems more like teenage angst that never got dealt with more so than a truly dedicated magical practice.  But maybe that's just us...   CERTAINLY not trying to offend any Wiccans.  

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It's not just the kids. The internet is full of midlife crisis witches flouncing around in corsets and whatnot, trying to look like Stevie Nicks, lol.
The "Look at meeeee!" thing isn't limited to the kids (who seem to have a lot of piercings and stuff even if they're non-witches. It's not like we left them much to rebel with!)

 

4 hours ago, PathWalker said:

I also keep thinking of the punks I knew in the 70's. Had you suggested to them they'd like to "get their yayas in the moshi pit" they'd have punched you too LOL!

We'd have got on well, then - I'd have punched back. 😈

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3 hours ago, katrinka said:

It's not just the kids. The internet is full of midlife crisis witches flouncing around in corsets and whatnot, trying to look like Stevie Nicks, lol.
The "Look at meeeee!" thing isn't limited to the kids (who seem to have a lot of piercings and stuff even if they're non-witches. It's not like we left them much to rebel with!)

 

We'd have got on well, then - I'd have punched back. 😈

I was gonna mention this, some of the ones I've met are in their early 30's that's why I said it's teenage angst that "never died".  Makes me want to talk to some real wiccans though, I don't like having a one sided view of something.  

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2 hours ago, Symph said:

I was gonna mention this, some of the ones I've met are in their early 30's that's why I said it's teenage angst that "never died".  Makes me want to talk to some real wiccans though, I don't like having a one sided view of something.  

I get what you all are saying but I do think it can be offensive when non Wiccans takes it upon themselves to determine who is a ‘real Wiccan’ or not, solely based on a persons appearance or demeanor. The topic of witchy aesthetics was a hot one on YouTube some time ago and I think a lot of persons were genuinely offended. Just because they like to dress or speak a certain way, that doesn’t mean that their practice is in any way less legit. And what is a legitimate practice anyway? Who gets to decide? I have also seen that there is a trend towards more people stating that they are ‘traditional’ or old-school witches, and it sort of feels like pedigree talk. 

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