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Decks of The Decade

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katrinka
5 hours ago, Wheel of Fantastic said:

I bought the Tarot of Prague 2nd edition in 2005 when it was still available; as much as I enjoy that deck I would never consider it a Deck of that decade as it was OOP for 11 years and was very soon unobtainable due to the ridiculous prices. I don't see how an OOP deck can have a lasting and major influence if no one can get hold of it. There are only two exceptions to that; the 1910 Pam A and 1971 Second Edition RWS decks. These two decks have had a lasting impact.

*sigh* Let me try to explain "impact".

Have you ever heard of Big Joe Turner's Roll 'Em Pete? Probably not. It was recorded in 1938. Wikipedia calls it "one of the most important precursors of what later became known as rock and roll" and says "it contained one of the earliest recorded examples of a back beat", and goes on to quote Larry Birmbaum: " .."Roll 'Em Pete may well be regarded as the first rock'n'roll record. Although earlier songs contain elements of rock'n'roll, "Roll 'Em Pete" is a full-fledged rocker in all but instrumentation ... Johnson's bass line is a simple Chuck Berry-like chug, and his furious right hand embellishments anticipate Berry's entire guitar style."
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_'Em_Pete

 

While Big Joe Turner used to open for Billie Holiday and no doubt had a moderately healthy following in those days, it can hardly be said that Roll 'Em Pete burned up the charts. And most people today, even dedicated rockers, have never heard of it. But it had a MAJOR impact, even though there were almost surely times when you "couldn't get hold of it". It was like a little rudder that steers a big ship - it influenced other musicians, who in turn popularized the style. But the source was Roll 'Em Pete. Chuck Berry and the other 50's rockers were simply echoing Big Joe Turner.


Sales have very little to do with impact. Virtually all of the best selling songs, good or bad, have been derivative - using elements that already existed. Many are formulaic. They don't change the face of music, they simply repackage things that already made an impact, and provide enjoyment.

A person making an indie deck, with full creative control,actually has enhanced odds of having an impact. Much more so than an artist for hire, who is told to make a RWS knockoff only with elves. (Or whatever.)

Here you go: a rocker from 1938:
 


 

Edited by katrinka

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Wheel of Fantastic
4 hours ago, katrinka said:

*sigh* Let me try to explain "impact".

Have you ever heard of Big Joe Turner's Roll 'Em Pete? Probably not. It was recorded in 1938. Wikipedia calls it "one of the most important precursors of what later became known as rock and roll" and says "it contained one of the earliest recorded examples of a back beat", and goes on to quote Larry Birmbaum: " .."Roll 'Em Pete may well be regarded as the first rock'n'roll record. Although earlier songs contain elements of rock'n'roll, "Roll 'Em Pete" is a full-fledged rocker in all but instrumentation ... Johnson's bass line is a simple Chuck Berry-like chug, and his furious right hand embellishments anticipate Berry's entire guitar style."
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_'Em_Pete

 

While Big Joe Turner used to open for Billie Holiday and no doubt had a moderately healthy following in those days, it can hardly be said that Roll 'Em Pete burned up the charts. And most people today, even dedicated rockers, have never heard of it. But it had a MAJOR impact, even though there were almost surely times when you "couldn't get hold of it". It was like a little rudder that steers a big ship - it influenced other musicians, who in turn popularized the style. But the source was Roll 'Em Pete. Chuck Berry and the other 50's rockers were simply echoing Big Joe Turner.


Sales have very little to do with impact. Virtually all of the best selling songs, good or bad, have been derivative - using elements that already existed. Many are formulaic. They don't change the face of music, they simply repackage things that already made an impact, and provide enjoyment.

A person making an indie deck, with full creative control,actually has enhanced odds of having an impact. Much more so than an artist for hire, who is told to make a RWS knockoff only with elves. (Or whatever.)

Here you go: a rocker from 1938:
 


 

Hmm, I don't think music is a good analogy. For one thing a large quantity of the music ever made is still easily available in one form or another either in physical or digital media. Therefore, yes, as you say old music can have an impact. However, Tarot decks become almost immediately expensive once they're out of print and hard to find. Plus, most decks are derivative of the RWS, TdM or Thoth - the derivative decks themselves rarely have any lasting impact. And please don't 'sigh' me - that is very patronising.

 

From reading this thread it's very clear I have a very different definition of what it means to be a deck of the decade from other posters. Just to be clear, for me a deck that achieves that accolade is one that has become a classic and is widely used. So, other than the Wild Unknown, I include the Druidcraft; the Fountain Tarot; the Pagan Other Worlds as well. These are all decks that have really stood out from the pack and are used by many people. Other than the Pagan, they were also indie decks that went mass market so have reached a much wider audience. I don't include decks that are out of print as they are inaccessible thus cannot have a lasting influence in the wider tarot community. If you can't get hold of a deck, how can you learn from it and be influenced by it? What about OOP decks like the Greenwood? To be honest, the Greenwood appeals to a small subsection of the tarot community; there are so many decks coming out all the time that long OOP decks get swamped and left behind. The Wildwood is the only deck I can think of that's been influenced by the Greenwood and that's because one of the Greenwood creator's had a hand in it. If the Greenwood had been in print for the past 20+ years it would have had a much better chance of influencing other creators and being widely used. I use the Greenwood as an example of what I mean by not having lasting influence if it's OOP.

Edited by Wheel of Fantastic

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katrinka

Erm....the Greenwood has been available free with Chesca's blessing for years.

A lot of us here have had copies printed up.

Best not to conflate impact with current sales figures. 

And yes, the music analogy does work. Art is art.

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Wheel of Fantastic
3 hours ago, katrinka said:

Erm....the Greenwood has been available free with Chesca's blessing for years.

A lot of us here have had copies printed up.

Best not to conflate impact with current sales figures. 

And yes, the music analogy does work. Art is art.

How many people outside of tarot forums like this know that they have to download the Greenwood and print it themselves? Not my definition of 'widely available'.

 

I wasn't conflating impact with sales figures; I was comparing influence with wide usage and general acceptance; that does imply sales but not the main point of my argument.

 

Anyway, I can sense this discussion is no longer productive so I'll leave it there.

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PathWalker

I suppose a lot rests on what you consider to be a lasting classic, and how that might appear at first?

Vincent Van Gogh was giving away his paintings for food during his lifetime - but I would consider them "classic and impactful" now - so one's definition makes a big difference :classic_smile:

Interesting conversation though, and good to see what other folks have been really struck by - thank you Flaxen.

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katrinka
2 hours ago, Wheel of Fantastic said:

How many people outside of tarot forums like this know that they have to download the Greenwood and print it themselves? Not my definition of 'widely available'.

It's mentioned on facebook and other sites pretty regularly, for one thing. Especially now that the guy who did the calligraphy has been talking about republishing it without Chesca's consent.

2 hours ago, Wheel of Fantastic said:

 

I wasn't conflating impact with sales figures; I was comparing influence with wide usage and general acceptance; that does imply sales but not the main point of my argument.

Then we'd like to know what you meant. 

"Wide usage and acceptance" does not automatically equal impact. And on those occasions when it does have impact, it's generally negative. Like fast food. 

 

I guess it comes down to your definition of "impact". IMHO, a popular deck du jour  lying forgotten in a drawer isn't impacting anything.

 

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ilweran
On 12/15/2019 at 2:48 AM, Wheel of Fantastic said:

The Wildwood is the only deck I can think of that's been influenced by the Greenwood and that's because one of the Greenwood creator's had a hand in it.

I think it could be argued that the Greenwood had an influence on the creator of the Hidden Realm. Four of stones/pentacles for example, or The Blasted Oak/Beech. Obviously the structure wasn't, but image-wise.

 

There may be other decks that I'm not aware of.

 

I believe that Danielle Barlow who created the Greenwheel Oracle is creating a tarot deck, I'm pretty sure she uses the Wildwood so it will be interesting to see if anything from the WW creeps in.

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Kicia

I have to agree with leroidetrefle, the three that really stick out to me are Wild Unknown, Fountain Tarot, and Mary El. 

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Jewel

I like the idea of playing around to see which decks will become classics down the road.  I am a Baba Studios/MRP fan girl so I would like to say the Alice Tarot.  This deck has such an interesting approach and is really in a class all by itself in my opinion.  

 

Now looking at Mass Market decks, which I do buy a lot of since they are more accessible to me (thank you Amazon) I would expect these to end up as classics:

  • Shadowscapes (2010) - this deck has been popular since its release in 2010 that is 9 years and going strong.
  • Green Witch Tarot (2015) - the DruidCraft in my opinion has ruled the roost so far in its category as far as being a classic but I think this one could give it steep competition in its class.
  • Everyday Witch (2017) - this one could surprise and make it with its combination of fantasy and contemporary, combined with its initial look appeal to younger audiences.  This was another deck that really suprised me.
  • Forest of Enchantment (2018) - though very early to tell, in my opnion this deck has the same potential as the Shadowscapes to capture a good audience for years to come.

Decks I personally will consider classics but probably won't make it to that level because they are more nish decks:

  • Joie de Vivre (2011)
  • Victorian Fairy Tarot (2013) - how they let this deck/book set go OOP is beyond me.  This little gem was such a surprise to me.
  • Tarot of the Sidhe (2011)

I did not add the Deviant Moon as it was originally published in 2008 with a republishing in 2014.  I will add more decks as I think of them.

 

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bookshop

Can we bring this thread back?

 

I want to say that the Wild Unknown feels like the most influential deck of the decade by a longshot. That deck is so massively popular that I often feel like my choice not to own it feels like it's some sort of Statement rather than mere personal preference. And I know so many people with barely a passing interest in tarot that fell in love with it and bought it and use it exclusively. It just seems like it's the deck that's come to represent tarot to a whole lot of people, for better or worse.

 

Before the Wild Unknown I would have said that the Shadowscapes tarot seemed like the only other contender to really fill that role (though it came very early into the decade), because it was very much popular in that same vein. But the Wild Unknown deck to me just seems to have outstripped every other possible deck of the decade in terms of popularity and overshadowing the conversation around tarot.

 

I agree with most of the other nominations for seminal decks of the decade, and I'd also toss in the Prisma Visions, the Golden Thread, the Slow Holler and Delta Rising tarots, Ciro Marchetti's Tarot Grand Luxe, and Benebell Wen's Spirit Keepers tarot. Possibly also the Cosmos tarot.

Edited by bookshop

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Venus Rising
36 minutes ago, bookshop said:

Can we bring this thread back?

 

I want to say that the Wild Unknown feels like the most influential deck of the decade by a longshot. That deck is so massively popular that I often feel like my choice not to own it feels like it's some sort of Statement rather than mere personal preference. And I know so many people with barely a passing interest in tarot that fell in love with it and bought it and use it exclusively. It just seems like it's the deck that's come to represent tarot to a whole lot of people, for better or worse.

 

Before the Wild Unknown I would have said that the Shadowscapes tarot seemed like the only other contender to really fill that role (though it came very early into the decade), because it was very much popular in that same vein. But the Wild Unknown deck to me just seems to have outstripped every other possible deck of the decade in terms of popularity and overshadowing the conversation around tarot.

 

I agree with most of the other nominations for seminal decks of the decade, and I'd also toss in the Prisma Visions, the Golden Thread, the Slow Holler and Delta Rising tarots, Ciro Marchetti's Tarot Grand Luxe, and Benebell Wen's Spirit Keepers tarot. Possibly also the Cosmos tarot.

I have to agree with you @bookshop and @Wheel of Fantastic here.  I actually don’t even like the Wild Unknown (don’t own it, don’t want to) but I cannot ignore the impact it has had on the tarot community and beyond.  When I saw it at Costco of all places,  I was very surprised - doesn’t get more mainstream than that. (But then when I thought about it, I realised how often I’d see that deck being talked about by non-readers (and those just beginning to explore tarot cards) as well as real readers.  I think everyone and their dog has a copy (except me, And my dog doesn’t have it either LOL)  

Edited by Venus Rising
Forgot to tag someone

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