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Playing Card Meanings??


bastetly

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I very much want this Lenormand deck but it has a playing card interp wriiten upside-down under each inset.  Do these card meanings jive w what you understand these pc's to mean?

 

https://www.printerstudio.com/sell/designs/lenormand-japanese.html

 

Click on Preview Design, then R-click to open new tab, for each card, pain in the *** I know...   but thanks!

Edited by bastetly
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fire cat pickles

I'm not sure where the artist gets their playing card meanings from. I'm sure it's a genuine system. The question is, why is it superimposed over or included with  the Lenormand system? I can appreciate the effort, but I question the reasoning behind it. Is it so you can reverse the deck and use it as some sort of playing card oracle? If so, wouldn't it be an incomplete deck?

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3 hours ago, bastetly said:

I very much want this Lenormand deck but it has a playing card interp wriiten upside-down under each inset.  Do these card meanings jive w what you understand these pc's to mean?

 

https://www.printerstudio.com/sell/designs/lenormand-japanese.html

 

Click on Preview Design, then R-click to open new tab, for each card, pain in the *** I know...   but thanks!

Mother of god, make it stop.

Lenormand has its roots in Alemannic cartomancy and German-suited cards: leaves (spades), hearts (hearts), bells (diamonds), and acorns (clubs). That's why Clubs rather than Spades are the troublesome cards: it's a DIFFERENT SYSTEM from SOMEWHERE ELSE. People don't bother with acorns unless they're in dire straits! And leaves are a GOOD thing, things growing, you made it through another winter and it's going to be OK for awhile.

The Rider is NOT "liberty", the Clover is not "patience". And those things are printed upside down, like they're for reversals. And where are the reversed meanings for the courts? Lenormand normally doesn't incorporate reversed meanings, but if you insist on them, shouldn't they be for all the cards?

Sorry, but that deck is an ill-thought-out hot mess. If you can't resist the art, at least chop the bottoms off. *shudders*

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Hi fcp:  Not sure what the intention really is.  I assumed it meant just including the pc's into the reading, like many do?  I don't read the pips, just the courts.  It may be the reduced set of playing cards that some Europeans work with, or what Lenormand is also called, "a reduced set of playing cards".  Hmmmm

 

 

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fire cat pickles

The playing card meanings have absolutely nothing to do with Lenormand the meanings, though (ie. "Ship" and "Defeat" ??? No!) Lenormand is its own independent system. The keywords on the inserts provided appear to be independent of the Lenormand system. And Lenormand does not use reversals.

 

 

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1 minute ago, fire cat pickles said:

The playing card meanings have absolutely nothing to do with Lenormand meanings, though. Lenormand is its own independent system. The keywords on the inserts provided appear to be independent of the Lenormand system. And Lenormand for not use reversals.

No, you don't understand. Lenormand is at least partly based off of a PC reading system used in Germany, maybe Switzerland, etc. in the 18th century. When you look at Lenormand, you're looking at the remnants of it. The playing card meanings- in that context - just ARE the Lenorand meanings.
What we think of as PC reading is most likely Italian, as popularized by Martello, etc. So Lenormand won't match up with what you see over at Kaph's blog.  But that has nothing to do with Germany.
There are cases of reversals being used, historically. IIRC, some Russian readers used them. We don't, Continental Europe doesn't, it's an aberration and not something that's recommended or that I care to see - but it HAS been done.

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13 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Mother of god, make it stop.

Lenormand has its roots in Alemannic cartomancy and German-suited cards: leaves (spades), hearts (hearts), bells (diamonds), and acorns (clubs). That's why Clubs rather than Spades are the troublesome cards: it's a DIFFERENT SYSTEM from SOMEWHERE ELSE. People don't bother with acorns unless they're in dire straits! And leaves are a GOOD thing, things growing, you made it through another winter and it's going to be OK for awhile.

The Rider is NOT "liberty", the Clover is not "patience". And those things are printed upside down, like they're for reversals. And where are the reversed meanings for the courts? Lenormand normally doesn't incorporate reversed meanings, but if you insist on them, shouldn't they be for all the cards?

Sorry, but that deck is an ill-thought-out hot mess. If you can't resist the art, at least chop the bottoms off. *shudders*

Right, those don't look to be the German-Alemannic keywords for those playing cards.  Debonehead must have just pasted them on fm somewhere else...  As for reversals, I hope that's not what he had in mind!  Da** such a pretty deck too.  If I do get it I'll have to black-marker the bottom pc meanings.  Shame.   I really do love the art mostly.  

 

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LOL, it's a Deboner deck? 
It all makes sense now. He never did bother with accuracy or functionality. 🦨
Do get a Sharpie. If it's good enough for the president...🐒
 

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Yea it's one of his decks haha.

 

We don't have a president, just a dangerous child (w a sharpie!)  I'm on the Federal do-not-call list.  But guess who's robo-calling me every day?  "Hi I'm Donald T...!"   talk about "shudders"

I digress 😬

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fire cat pickles
22 minutes ago, katrinka said:

No, you don't understand. Lenormand is at least partly based off of a PC reading system used in Germany, maybe Switzerland, etc. in the 18th century. When you look at Lenormand, you're looking at the remnants of it. The playing card meanings- in that context - just ARE the Lenorand meanings.
What we think of as PC reading is most likely Italian, as popularized by Martello, etc. So Lenormand won't match up with what you see over at Kaph's blog.  But that has nothing to do with Germany.
There are cases of reversals being used, historically. IIRC, some Russian readers used them. We don't, Continental Europe doesn't, it's an aberration and not something that's recommended or that I care to see - but it HAS been done.

I am aware, I meant the playing card meanings provided have nothing to do with Lenormand....

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fire cat pickles
20 minutes ago, katrinka said:

LOL, it's a Deboner deck? 
It all makes sense now. He never did bother with accuracy or functionality. 🦨
Do get a Sharpie. If it's good enough for the president...🐒
 

 

I think I know what happened. He has pasted the inserts from one of his playing card "oracle" decks (with the keywords still in tow) onto this Lenormand. I've seen the oracle/playing card deck on Facebook. Lovely.

 

 

Edited by fire cat pickles
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24 minutes ago, bastetly said:

Yea it's one of his decks haha.

 

We don't have a president, just a dangerous child (w a sharpie!)  I'm on the Federal do-not-call list.  But guess who's robo-calling me every day?  "Hi I'm Donald T...!"   talk about "shudders"

I digress 😬

A Sharpie and a nuke button. Luckily, he has thus far been unable to key in the codes. Otherwise, we'd all be dying from the fallout from him nuking the homes of whoever has him pitching twitter tantrums on any particular day.
I've learned not to answer the phone if it's a number I'm not familiar with. 

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I imagine you're correct FCP, he's simply grabbed the meanings fm another of his decks.  What a pity.  He uses his decks to teach classes on Lenormand.  Yikes.

 

@katrinka, I like to block numbers, but since I blocked my plumber and my mother accidentally, I usually listen for a sec.  That dude has a whole bank of diff 2** prefix #s  cuz I keep blocking but he still wants a date!

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12 hours ago, bastetly said:

I imagine you're correct FCP, he's simply grabbed the meanings fm another of his decks.  What a pity.  He uses his decks to teach classes on Lenormand.  Yikes.

He's creepy. He always impressed me as a Luka Magnotta style sex murder waiting to happen. All of his followers are old hausfraus who get a kick out of his photos, every one of which has his mouth hanging open. 

 

*Edited out creepy photo. Ack.*

 

He posted a spread once with a Devil Woman in it. He said the Devil Woman was me and she needed some D in her life, if you get my drift.  Like a penis would make me fawn on him.
That's when I blocked the rapey creep and never looked back. 
 

Quote

 

@katrinka, I like to block numbers, but since I blocked my plumber and my mother accidentally, I usually listen for a sec.  That dude has a whole bank of diff 2** prefix #s  cuz I keep blocking but he still wants a date!

Let him suffer. 
 

Edited by katrinka
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There are too much Lenormand decks on the market currently, and this doesn't help Lenormand I'm afraid. Actually this distances me from Lenormand on favor of other decks/systems less ruined. The situation with Lenormand is too bad.

 

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There seems to be a genuine disconnect when it comes to the playing cards. It’s strange — the playing cards were there from the start. Hetchel himself noted their inclusion and that the lames could thus be used for fortune-telling and gaming.

 

Quite a few Lenormand Oracle teachers state the playing-cards “contradict” the cards. But contradict how? There is no one set of playing card significations accepted by all.  Although to be fair these teachers tend to be Anglo.

 

That said, I am having a break from the Lenormand Oracle. I find the current landscape sad. However, if you put your cards in suits, you can see there is no contradiction and clear connections. If you pay attention to the regards of the royals, or the multiples, you will see much that can refine your readings. 

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10 hours ago, Decan said:

There are too much Lenormand decks on the market currently, and this doesn't help Lenormand I'm afraid. Actually this distances me from Lenormand on favor of other decks/systems less ruined. The situation with Lenormand is too bad.

 

58 minutes ago, leroidetrèfle said:

 

That said, I am having a break from the Lenormand Oracle. I find the current landscape sad.

 

It really is.

And a lot of the misinformation and bad decks are coming from people who picked it up years ago and really should know better,.

 

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13 hours ago, katrinka said:

He's creepy. He always impressed me as a Luka Magnotta style sex murder waiting to happen. All of his followers are old hausfraus who get a kick out of his photos, every one of which has his mouth hanging open. 
 

LOL!!! --and I thought it was just me getting a creepy, uneasy vibe from his pics (and I usually like creepy). 😄 To be fair, though, I do like some of his earlier decks. Don't understand the upsidedown pips unless, as mentioned before, it is for reversals.

 

If I were you, @bastetly, I'd just contact him on his facebook page(s), instagram, or through his store or the multiple places you can find him online and simply ask him your question (problem solved). 

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51 minutes ago, 53rdspirit said:

If I were you, @bastetly, I'd just contact him on his facebook page(s), instagram, or through his store or the multiple places you can find him online and simply ask him your question (problem solved). 

 

I could do that.  It'll probably be a bunch of bs so I'll think about it.  Perhaps when there's another sale fm Printers Studio.  He doesn't even sell them w boxes anymore.  The last deck I bought (fm his site) came as loose cards, duck- taped closed in a recycled cut-up manila envelope.  I think he's slipping somehow, has no real interest in this aspect of his business any longer.  

 

In spite of all the crazy decks and dis-information that's been increasing for a long time, It has no effect on how I view the oracle.  I still love it.  I just keep my eyes on a few teachers:  Hexe-Claire, Andy B (:animated-smileys-waving-065:), Stella W ( :animated-smileys-waving-065: ) Bjorn and Tony, and Caitlin's book sometimes.

 

eta:  don't even check in w the lenormand fb groups I belong to anymore.  It's nuts on there and visiting that site in general is a deep rabbit hole, which I do not have the time for!  

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2 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

 

It really is.

And a lot of the misinformation and bad decks are coming from people who picked it up years ago and really should know better,.

 

Yes! I’ve found that rather said.

Edited by Guest
Irrelevant
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2 hours ago, 53rdspirit said:

LOL!!! --and I thought it was just me getting a creepy, uneasy vibe from his pics (and I usually like creepy). 😄 

Gothic novels are good when they're creepy. People, not so much. He's a sleazy kind of creepy.
And I'm not saying that because I don't like his cards. A lot of people are making bad Lenormands, but they don't give off THAT vibe.

 

2 hours ago, 53rdspirit said:

I'd just contact him on his facebook page(s), instagram, or through his store or the multiple places you can find him online and simply ask him your question (problem solved). 

I dunno...
He's overly-familiar, and he's said things that I would've reported to the cops if he wasn't on the other side of the world. Like that Devil Woman incident. I wasn't even interacting with him at that point. Somebody PM'ed me and told me that he put a spread about me on facebook. It was retaliation because I banned him from a group. All he did there was advertise his decks and post mostly-naked pictures of himself. When warned, he got all flirty and disgusting, so he got yeeted.

 

2 hours ago, bastetly said:

I could do that.  It'll probably be a bunch of bs so I'll think about it.

This.
And the fact that you may well feel like making a police report and/or scrubbing your skin raw.

 

2 hours ago, bastetly said:

He doesn't even sell them w boxes anymore.  The last deck I bought (fm his site) came as loose cards, duck- taped closed in a recycled cut-up manila envelope.  I think he's slipping somehow, has no real interest in this aspect of his business any longer.  

 

Duct tape? That IS bad. 

❤️ for the shoutout. 😉

 

2 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

It’s worth remembering that the most vociferous criticisms comes from those who started five or six years ago. 

After the pile-on. Yes. 

 

2 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

At that point in my apprenticeship I was either doings GTs or the game of destiny (which requires the playing cards). I didn’t fully appreciate the suits. However I wouldn’t have dreamt saying they were meaningless — it’s cartomancy, if it’s on the cards you read it.


Yes. 
I didn't ALWAYS know why there were PC insets on the cards, but before I found out (and it was you who cleared the matter up, thank you!) it was something intriguing rather than something to try to discount. 

The information has been readily available for some time. They ignore it.

 

18 minutes ago, Czenzi said:

Nope, not even close to my reading style, or any I know of. Some cards do not even seem to get a keyword . . . Strange.

I'm convinced he doesn't actually read, he just pretends. He could have taken those keywords from a random word generator, for all we know..

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fire cat pickles

Provocative drums up publicity, unfortunately. And obviously it's working. He also fills a hole in the market (and I swear there's no pun intended, please excuse). I'm it excusing it, I'm just making a statement for argument's sake. And I agree with everything that's been said.

 

ETA: I'm *not* excusing it...

 

 

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10 hours ago, fire cat pickles said:

Provocative drums up publicity, unfortunately. And obviously it's working. He also fills a hole in the market (and I swear there's no pun intended, please excuse). I'm it excusing it, I'm just making a statement for argument's sake. And I agree with everything that's been said.

Agree. It is what it is. 

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