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7 hours ago, Arania said:

They closed pet supply shops in Italy, so people can't feed their pets who can't or won't eat supermarket food anymore.

This is so sad ūüėĘ.¬†

My cat is a greedy omnivorous piggy who gets special low cal food, but he'd gladly live on supermarket food. Or our food actually. I know that he likes pasta and porridge. He likes to eat pringles like me, lick them first and then eat them. Please dont worry, we don't feed him rubbish, this is only when we drop something or when he finds an unattended bowl which we avoid of course.

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Here's a different point of view.  My older son has worked in service industry jobs ranging from florist to waiter to white water raft guide to adaptive ski assistant instructor since he was in high school.  He is a bartender in a mountain resort hotel in Washington state.  He posted this on Facebook today.  

 

Feel free to disagree - he'll never know and he wouldn't be offended if he did.

 

             We need tests. That's it. It would cost way less to produce and administer a test for everyone in this country than what is going on. The positives quarantine and be done with it. How many tests can we get for 1.5 trillion dollars? How many tests for all the money lost on cancellations of NBAMLBNHLNCAATENNISGOLFCONCERTSCONFERENCESDATENIGHTSCOOLETC. and all the associated hotel rooms and flights and meals out etc.  All this other shit is just fear mongering.

            Please please please go out and spend money if you can. Keep people working. Unemployment benefits are crap and anything you do to help yourself on the books counts against them. I am now scheduled to work at a level that essentially has me working for nothing because it counts against anything I get back from what I have been paying into my whole life. So we take a huge loss and can not reap the benefits of what we paid for because we are still trying to work. I would rather just get laid off for a while with the way the system works. How fucked is that? Anyone who even knows me a little bit knows I have no aversion to work, but why work for free?

            Please go out and use the service industry and tip in cash so if someone is on partial unemployment it will not count against them as much.

Edited by Grandma
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8 hours ago, Arania said:

I am supposed to take aspirin daily, and can't take paracetamol. But I had already had a feeling that aspirin might make matters worse due to some of the medical reports I read. So I have stopped a few days ago. Luckily I have other pain killers, because I got the flu as it looks like and the headache would be a problem without.

Where are you ? I am on clopidogrel instead of aspirin.... See if you can get it instead.

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People who make the rules and recommendations live in a dream world. 

Neurologist and haematologists ? It is on THEIR advice that these regulations have been brought in. YES far more testing is needed, but social distancing IS our best option.

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I have to touch my face a lot because of the chronic goo in my eyes which is both painful and makes be almost blind at times. And it is hardly possible even for normal people not to touch their faces.

Of course - the advice, though, is to wash your hands thoroughly for two minutes with soap and water before you touch your own face. What happens all over the world is - people go shopping, wheel the cart around (a cart covered in other people's germs) pick up cans and put them down, turn door handles, sign the touch pad... And then touch their faces without washing their hands. I was consciously watching it all in a large store the other day. It's habit - and we have to break that habit.

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They closed pet supply shops in Italy, so people can't feed their pets who can't or won't eat supermarket food anymore. One one of my forums, there is worry now about their cat dying because of this. If anything breaks you can't buy new things because everything but pharmacy and supermarkets were forced to close. How does this make any sense? I'm really worried this will happen over here, too - with my tendency to break things or need things replaced out of the blue I'll likely get in trouble quick.

Amazon. Sells pretty much anything.

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Over here, schools  and kindergarten are now closed but practically are still open if you can't find someone to take care of the kids (they call it emergency care but it is in the same buildings) what's likely the case for 80% of people since you are not supposed to leave them with grandparents. Supposedly, the emergency care is mainly for those who can't stop working, and they mean doctors, nurses etc but the reality is most people cannot stop to go to work. And the max time you can take a leave for emergency child issues is 3 days in most places. How do they not consider this? It'll probably lead to a lot of kids being shoved off onto some stay at home parents - how is that better than being in school?

 

Virtual classrooms are suggested but there are still families without computers (our direct neighbors avoid technology as much as they can for example), or at least computers good enough to work for such things, and the area where we are in has a really really bad connection, and those people who have satellite connections due to this can't necessarily pay the extra data transfer to have their kids stay online for hours of school.

 

And the self isolating advice...not everyone has relatives or friends or knows their neighbors who could help them. We, for example,don't know anyone here in the village we moved to well enough yet, but the old people next door, which we could hardly ask for help. We have supplies for a while luckily, because we don't go shopping too often anyway.

 

People also need to take care of their animals, especially with the farms around here or walking dogs. And their gardens and fields, especially now in spring. And there would not even be danger for people to keep going abut their business here because it is a small village and you normally don't meet many people but the rules would be very inflexible. I talked to my dad today, also in a village, and he said where he lives, a farmer and his family were asked to isolate due to one of them having returned from Italy recently, but they can't afford not to work their fields now so everyone knows they don't. No one will tell on them either.

 

They need to think of ways to reasonably support people and their animals and fields instead of just rushing into measures which leave out important issues.

All these things are awful, sure - but living with them for a bit is rather better than being at risk of dying or of simply carrying the virus to infect others. It's easy to say "small village, no worries. I live up a hill, 500 yards from any other house. I am going to self isolate as far as I can.  Working your fields - that doesn't take you close to anyone else, though....

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Cities near rivers here are expecting a flood, to make matters more interesting. So because they are expecting to not have enough people next week, they have been putting dams into place already. Weird sight when there is not yet actually a flood happening.

 

Neighbors opposite our garden had a big work-and-party-after thing today. At least 50 people. I'm all out of facepalms.

Now THAT is incredibly stupid.

6 hours ago, katrinka said:

Indeed. It's priviledge run amok.

Exactly.
I can refrain from doing it when nothing is happening, but how do I not touch my face if there's something in my eye?

 

And the day to day stuff - moisturizer, makeup, etc, - nobody's said anything about that. 

See above. Wash your hands very thoroughly first. Moisturiser - fair enough - but TBH who NEEDS makeup ?

 

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And yes - amazon is evil. but I get my dogs' food there.

I can recommend Victor - it's a four star kibble, and even though it's less expensive than Acana, Orijen, etc. (which have had recalls), it's good. One of my Shelties is prone to diarrhea, but he can eat Victor with no issues.

Privileged people make the rules, and they have no clue how regular people live. 

Exactly. 
VERY few have the luxury of ditching work until the hot weather kicks in. 

I'd rather be UTTERLY broke than as sick as I might get at 75. YES I am lucky; we shall lose quite a lot of money if my SO's annual meeting (22 people) is cancelled, as that would mean the work he does every year was cancelled too - but if it helps stop the spread - a reluctant OK. Yes we have idiots in charge; yes there should be more testing - which does NOT stop the virus, BTW - just gives us information - but we can do a lot to protect ourselves. See under Taiwan.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?

 

But we have all left it too late to do likewise.

Edited by gregory
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katrinka
5 minutes ago, gregory said:

See above. Wash your hands very thoroughly first. Moisturiser - fair enough - but TBH who NEEDS makeup ?

Me, if I leave the house. I'm not one of the few and fortunate who look good without it. 
But yeah - wash hands. And makeup brushes, just on general principle.

5 minutes ago, gregory said:

 

I'd rather be UTTERLY broke than as sick as I might get at 75. YES I am lucky; we shall lose quite a lot of money if my SO's annual meeting (22 people) is cancelled, as that would mean the work he does every year was cancelled too - but if it helps stop the spread - a reluctant OK. Yes we have idiots in charge; yes there should be more testing - which does NOT stop the virus, BTW - just gives us information - but we can do a lot to protect ourselves. See under Taiwan.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?

 

But we have all left it too late to do likewise.

Information doesn't STOP it, but the more information we have, the better.
Hoping for a vaccine. It likely won't happen before we get sick, but still, the sooner the better.

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6 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Me, if I leave the house. I'm not one of the few and fortunate who look good without it. 
But yeah - wash hands. And makeup brushes, just on general principle.

Information doesn't STOP it, but the more information we have, the better.
Hoping for a vaccine. It likely won't happen before we get sick, but still, the sooner the better.

I am certain sure you don't look as bad as you think. I look like crap all the time; I never wear the stuff.

 

And yes - vaccine will be wonderful. Of course, now that the UK has done the Brexit thing it will take longer to get it here....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-vaccine-delays-brexit-ema-expensive

 

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24 minutes ago, gregory said:

If you're out of pasta

Or if you're low on rice

Adopt a shelter kitty

And they will bring you mice

Haha! Lovely advice! I hope the cats share, mine won't! I bet he is eyeing me up tho. In the mornings when I'm (trying to) have a bit of a lie in and am hence not up early enough to give him his 6am breakfast, he jumps on the bed, looks for my hands, gives my hand one or two headbutts and then when I don't react and pretend I'm till fast asleep (no chance after he stomped right on my bladder) starts gnawing and chewing on my hand. He has his emergency food supply all worked out!

 

 

1 hour ago, Grandma said:

So we take a huge loss and can not reap the benefits of what we paid for because we are still trying to work.

Exactly this Grandma. But people are too scared to go out and spend money. Which I have to admit I do kind of understand and you can't judge people for not wanting to go out out of fear they might come home and e.g. infect their unwell family member. It's just all shit really, the ones that get hit the worst are the vulnerable and poor people¬†ūüėʬ†

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The poor will be hit worst because they are the least healthy. But sadly - Grandma - don't forget that MANY people are infected and will never know. By "going out and spending money" you could unwittingly  infect someone lower in the pecking order of health than you are yourself. We do actually need to do the social distancing thing.

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9 hours ago, ilweran said:

My husband can't take NSAIDs like ibuprofen and doesn't get on with codeine so is stuck with just paracetamol. Which is a bit rubbish really. I don't find paracetamol that great for pain relief, it is supposed to make other pain medication work better though, and alternating paracetamol and ibuprofen has worked well for me when needing extra pain relief. 

I'm in the same boat. I've never been able to take anything but paracetamol, which isn't always enough. God I love opiates. LOL. The first time I had them (only a few years ago) I very quickly understand how people can get addicted to them. Obviously, I'm very careful to only take it when absolutely necessary and sparingly. Because NSAIDs are out, steroids are often on my prescription list which is aparantly also bad to take with Coronavirus. So we will have to be extra careful! 

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Unfortunately, when I need to clean my eyes I need to clean them right away. It hurts, I am blind and panic. I can hardly wash my hands standing in the road, or in the supermarket. Most markets don't even have a bathroom you could use. And disinfectants aren't an option because after them I need to wait 30 min to touch my eyes, which is why I only use them after. Plus, most of the time when I wipe my eyes to avoid goo building up to begin with, I won't even notice. Nothing I can do about it. We disinfect the cart before we use it, we have disinfectant spray in the car now. I'm thinking of using gardening gloves when going shopping, I can take them off and clean my eyes easily enough and put them back on. I'll probably get a few weird looks. No one around here takes much in the way of precaution, except for hamstering stuff.

 

Not everyone can use Amazon either. Forum friend with the cat (and a dog but he's less fuzzy) , they do not have a credit card or a bank account Amazon would accept. Amazon does not carry the food they need, either, at least not for affordable prices, and they aren't rich. Zooplus is an alternative, if they can get them to deliver to their place. They don't usually order online. If all else fails, I'll send them food through our Zooplus account.

 

The problem is really that the privileged few who give advice or orders really have no idea how most people live. It is not just an inconvenience schools are closed now. There is no one to take care of the kids if you can't even let grandparents help. So it is really a lot of kids put together into even smaller spaces, much closer together, in private houses. Neighbor has told me they will have all their kid's friends over next week as there is no one else to take them. That's 14 kids in a relatively small house. That can't be good.  On one of my forums, parents are worried that their young kids will have to be home alone as they were told no school buses in their area so they can't even get their kids to the emergency placements.

 

It would have been better to keep schools open and put sanitizer in the classrooms etc. Maybe less kids in one classroom.

 

It not just inconvenient, a lot of these suggestions and rules are simply not doable. It is not for a few days either. If this is going to slow the virus down, it will have to be several weeks. This will do so much damage, especially to small companies and likely farms.

 

On a side note, our already bad internet connection is so overloaded now that several people stay home in the area and thus use the computer more, I was hardly able to load anything this morning. We may have to buy wireless connection.

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7 hours ago, katrinka said:

I keep his ashes. When I go, whatever they do with me - cremation, burial, it doesn't matter - those ashes need to go with me. I've informed my daughter of this.

I'll be dead and nothing will matter - but somehow, this does.

I get this. I had a fluffy ginger cat, his owners abandoned him and he became very attached to me. When we were buying or first house our original plan was to leave him with my parents as it seemed cruel to move him at his age, but it quickly became apparent that if I went away he pined and became ill. We took him. He died a year later, during a heavy snowfall so we had him cremated. Planned to scatter his ashes in my parents garden. 11 years and another house move later we've not done it and now I want his ashes with mine when the time comes.

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1 hour ago, gregory said:

Where are you ? I am on clopidogrel instead of aspirin.... See if you can get it instead.

 

 

Insurance will not pay for it. Nor will the doctor prescribe it due to the way insurance and doctor's allowance works here. Doctors are severely limited in what they can prescribe. I have absolutely no money on my own right now - and can't get any benefits because I am not registered here yet due to issues with my birth certificate and loss of my ID card, and right now all the offices have closed.

 

Luckily, my platelet values were more than fine last they were checked, so I probably won't have issues. I have a factor III mutation, and as long as I avoid  vitamin k rich foods I do fine with aspirin every now and then.

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17 minutes ago, Grace said:

I'm in the same boat. I've never been able to take anything but paracetamol, which isn't always enough. God I love opiates. LOL. The first time I had them (only a few years ago) I very quickly understand how people can get addicted to them. Obviously, I'm very careful to only take it when absolutely necessary and sparingly. Because NSAIDs are out, steroids are often on my prescription list which is aparantly also bad to take with Coronavirus. So we will have to be extra careful! 

I had 30/500 co-codamol after surgery. No chance of me getting addicted as they caused me to have the most horrendous, vivid nightmares, to the point of preferring the pain.

 

Morphine on the other hand was quite pleasant and made me not care about what was going on, I can see how that would get moreish.

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17 minutes ago, Grace said:

I'm in the same boat. I've never been able to take anything but paracetamol, which isn't always enough. God I love opiates. LOL. The first time I had them (only a few years ago) I very quickly understand how people can get addicted to them. Obviously, I'm very careful to only take it when absolutely necessary and sparingly. Because NSAIDs are out, steroids are often on my prescription list which is aparantly also bad to take with Coronavirus. So we will have to be extra careful! 

I am lucky; I have codeine from when I did my back in coughing with a TERRIBLE cough !

2 minutes ago, Arania said:

Unfortunately, when I need to clean my eyes I need to clean them right away. It hurts, I am blind and panic. I can hardly wash my hands standing in the road, or in the supermarket. Most markets don't even have a bathroom you could use. And disinfectants aren't an option because after them I need to wait 30 min to touch my eyes, which is why I only use them after. Plus, most of the time when I wipe my eyes to avoid goo building up to begin with, I won't even notice. Nothing I can do about it. We disinfect the cart before we use it, we have disinfectant spray in the car now. I'm thinking of using gardening gloves when going shopping, I can take them off and clean my eyes easily enough and put them back on. I'll probably get a few weird looks. No one around here takes much in the way of precaution, except for hamstering stuff.

 

Not everyone can use Amazon either. Forum friend with the cat (and a dog but he's less fuzzy) , they do not have a credit card or a bank account Amazon would accept. Amazon does not carry the food they need, either, at least not for affordable prices, and they aren't rich. Zooplus is an alternative, if they can get them to deliver to their place. They don't usually order online. If all else fails, I'll send them food through our Zooplus account.

 

The problem is really that the privileged few who give advice or orders really have no idea how most people live. It is not just an inconvenience schools are closed now. There is no one to take care of the kids if you can't even let grandparents help. So it is really a lot of kids put together into even smaller spaces, much closer together, in private houses. Neighbor has told me they will have all their kid's friends over next week as there is no one else to take them. That's 14 kids in a relatively small house. That can't be good.  On one of my forums, parents are worried that their young kids will have to be home alone as they were told no school buses in their area so they can't even get their kids to the emergency placements.

 

It would have been better to keep schools open and put sanitizer in the classrooms etc. Maybe less kids in one classroom.

My grandson's school already does this. They have had one infected child already.

 

And nice one about shopping in gloves :thumbsup:

 

Groceries - most chains are now making arrangements to deliver. And there's this, in the UK: 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-campaign-launched-offering-help-to-those-self-isolating

2 minutes ago, Arania said:

 

It not just inconvenient, a lot of these suggestions and rules are simply not doable. It is not for a few days either. If this is going to slow the virus down, it will have to be several weeks. This will do so much damage, especially to small companies and likely farms.

Yes it will cause loads of damage. The UK is about to make ALL over 70s self-isolate for four months. And give the police powers to arrest us if they see us out there. This will very much not please me; I am taking every precaution out there. But - others aren't, and sadly one has to allow for that.

 

But - yes it's a pain, and yes it feels un-doable. But we may have no choice. Not because of governments, because of it being a pandemic that needs to be brought under control

1 minute ago, ilweran said:

I get this. I had a fluffy ginger cat, his owners abandoned him and he became very attached to me. When we were buying or first house our original plan was to leave him with my parents as it seemed cruel to move him at his age, but it quickly became apparent that if I went away he pined and became ill. We took him. He died a year later, during a heavy snowfall so we had him cremated. Planned to scatter his ashes in my parents garden. 11 years and another house move later we've not done it and now I want his ashes with mine when the time comes.

My grandson has a whole shelf of his pets' ashes from over the years, in nice little containers.

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My grandson has a whole shelf of his pets' ashes from over the years, in nice little containers.

Not corona related, but still:¬†When I was about 7-8¬†years old, our family pet (a bunny) died and my dad made a nice burial site way back in the forest. Then a year later or so, it was decided that the county¬†would dig a road all through the forest - ¬†right across the¬†burial site. I told my parents to please hurry and inform them that our bunny was buried there, because surely they would then move the road slightly as to not dig him up. That day, my dad¬†sat down with me to explain how things work in the world. Many illusions were shattered¬†‚ėļÔłŹ

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That's so sad. We have pet graveyards in all sorts of places.  2 cats, three gerbils and a LOAD of goldfish at our Canadian home. I THINK five cats, a terrapin and two canaries in the UK garden... (Oh and there must also be several gerbils as they sure as hell aren't still living - I can't honestly remember how many of those the girls got through !) All buried before pet cremation was a thing.

 

And this is a chat thread so we don't feel isolated. Talk of whatever !

 

So I shall go feed the birds. Mostly partridges and pheasants at the moment.

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36 minutes ago, gregory said:

My grandson has a whole shelf of his pets' ashes from over the years, in nice little containers.

The ginger fluffball is, so far, the only cremation, and that was due to the snow, though it seems to have worked out the way he would have wanted as he's stayed with me.

 

My parents garden is pretty much a cemetery, the amount of animals buried there.

 

Anyway, popped over to our local shop this morning. A lot quieter than yesterday morning and very few empty shelves. They did have paracetamol, but only the £4 a packet branded stuff, I guess no-one was that eager to stockpile it. Bigger issue for us now is that my parents usually look after our six year old, trying to decide if it would be better if they didn't. Pretty sure husband has a chest infection (productive cough that he's had a few weeks etc., we've both been ill for weeks) not Coronavirus, but it seems like a risk.

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geoxena
1 hour ago, gregory said:

. . . don't forget that MANY people are infected and will never know. By "going out and spending money" you could unwittingly  infect someone lower in the pecking order of health than you are yourself. We do actually need to do the social distancing thing.

I go to Starbucks frequently and I like what they're doing to try and minimize risks of infection.  At least in my area, all the locations have:

 

stopped refilling the refillable containers that customers bring in, specifically to minimize risk for their employees as well as customers;

 

Put away all milk pitchers and sugar packets, stirrers, straws, etc., and giving them out as needed;

 

Sanitizing and steaming all surfaces in the stores at least twice a day; and

 

Rearranged furniture to add more distance between tables and seating.

 

I will keep going there as long as I can because I don't really have many places to go for free WiFi and space to work on my stuff.  The stores have been close to empty for the past few days.  My other go-to is a public library.  I'm in an area with lots of branches, but I don't know what is happening with them yet.  I'll have to check.

 

 

 

 

Edited by geoxena
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timtoldrum

There are so many vulnerable people who will likely become even more isolated throughout the coming weeks. Due to my job (NHS) I’ve had to take the decision to not visit my mum. 

 

My siblings and I  set up rotas to FaceTime, et cetera. We have done the same at work as we have colleagues with no family in the UK.

 

Please all be safe. 

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Yeah - that's what they are saying. At least (so hit me) as my 100 y/o mother is in a care home, I fully expect to be banned from visiting her shortly (and I couldn't have gone for another 2 weeks anyway) - something I hate doing - so there is a small upside.

 

Cats can eat meat from the supermarket. And canned tuna. And stores WILL deliver.

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Anyone else heard this one ?

 

Quote

Just heard Trump is trying to bribe a company that's working on a COVID-19 vaccine from Germany to the States and limit its distribution to Americans only, at least that's what the news said.

 

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6 minutes ago, gregory said:

Anyone else heard this one ?

 

 

Yes, German news program said that, just reading up on it. The US are really trying to bribe the scientists of the company CureVac to move and work for the US to have the vaccine exclusively, Germany however is trying to stop that of course. The boss of CureVac has been to the White House a few days ago to discuss with Trump and Pence and a few other Biotech high up people. According to CureVac they could have a vaccine ready in June/July. As long as they f***ing share!!!

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15 minutes ago, gregory said:

Anyone else heard this one ?

 

 

I watched last episode of Skavlan where he interviewed the leading scientist who is currently working on a vaccine. He is teamed up with with people like Bill Gates and the Norwegian government¬†to make sure this vaccine is made available to risk groups all over the world (before the rest of the population can have it).¬†He said that they absolutely do not want to repeat the situation from the swine flu pandemic where rich nations hoarded all the¬†¬†vaccine. He pleaded for more investors and the day after that interview, Bill Gates announced he would retire from Microsoft to work full time with charity. I believe he and his wife intend to try and raise the money for this. If you can watch the interview, do. The company seems incredibly respectable. And a lot of them seem Scandinavian so highly unlikely that they will sell out to Trump. He is not very popular here, to put it very mildly¬†ūüėÜ

 

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