katrinka Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: Mainly, the stop-cards (to me at this point) seem to be cards that offer no further pictorial indicators for further elaboration. There are similar techniques in cartomancy — closing lines, the Aces, chaining, the Coffin and the Garden, et cetera. Yes, on that level they make sense. But in practice, at least for me, they're unworkable. BTW, she's apparently trademarked her method. You can't put a trademark on a tradition, that would be like putting one on Easter egg hunts, or brides wearing white. If we didn't already have proof positive that it's her intellectual property, and not "The True Bavarian Method", we do now: https://www.cardgeek.co.uk/post/kipper-cards-where-to-start None of this is intended as a diss, or throwing down the gauntlet. And I do encourage newcomers to get her book. It has issues, but a LOT of worthwhile books have issues. 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: I did wonder how one is supposed to track the False Person, et cetera. It will be one card to monitor I think. She says that the False Person is not a person card. https://www.cardgeek.co.uk/post/kipper-card-meanings My issue with that is that sometimes it IS. We all have such people in our lives sometimes. 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: Of course, one does not know the primary sources consulted by Toni. True, and she's not telling. She only cites "Bavarian readers". 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: It's the same with GoH "method." I've never found the information to indicate the game was played as divinatory oracle vis-à-vis gyan chaupar. The fortune-telling reference is as an aside that the cards can be used as playing cards. I think we'll be seeing a trademark on that "method", too. 😉 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: That said, it's clear whoever created them, knew the cartomantic suit conventions — which again indicates more of sibilla in terms of fortune-telling. Yes. 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: (On a side note, I did read with interest that Toni is credited with first explaining the association between virtue and happiness in the early modern period to clarify the Lily). It's implied in the PL sheet. 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: Leiding is good — very clear and concise, which is extremely helpful when you are not fluent. The two books are very slim volumes, both less than 100 pages. What I have found extremely helpful is that each card is described on whether it is above, below, behind or before the MP. For example, Good Lady behind the MP2 can indicate that the mother has the daughter’s back. So the inauspicious nuances do not have to be default. Below, the mother thinks of the daughter (reversed if above). Yes, and the latter doesn't necessarily mean the daughter disrespects the mother, either, as is sometimes the case with people cards one above the other. None of this stuff is intended to be default. 5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said: Lol. If we ever get to Elphame, one does suspects more than a few surprised faces... 😄
Guest Posted April 24, 2020 Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, katrinka said: Yes, on that level they make sense. But in practice, at least for me, they're unworkable. That is how I feel; I can see them as emphasis, but little else. Quote BTW, she's apparently trademarked her method. You can't put a trademark on a tradition, that would be like putting one on Easter egg hunts, or brides wearing white. If we didn't already have proof positive that it's her intellectual property, and not "The True Bavarian Method", we do now: https://www.cardgeek.co.uk/post/kipper-cards-where-to-start That is interesting; if not rather disappointing. Quote None of this is intended as a diss, or throwing down the gauntlet. And I do encourage newcomers to get her book. It has issues, but a LOT of worthwhile books have issues. No; the book is fine and a worthwhile read. My disconnect is documented. But it is a book to read and I’ve taken stuff from it. Quote She says that the False Person is not a person card. https://www.cardgeek.co.uk/post/kipper-card-meanings My issue with that is that sometimes it IS. We all have such people in our lives sometimes. I’ve never understood that. I understand the warning on gender, which can see it contrasted and paired with Theft (male). But not to rule out a person completely. Quote It's implied in the PL sheet. Yes. I discussed it years ago, even referencing early modern theological texts and ballads, etc. On the Cartomantes’ Cabinet I said the Lily below can be seen as trampled on, etc. It’s amusing. But Quote Yes, and the latter doesn't necessarily mean the daughter disrespects the mother, either, as is sometimes the case with people cards one above the other. None of this stuff is intended to be default. Yes. Leiding is very clear and neutral. However what is presented is extremely fluid and flexible. Edited April 24, 2020 by Guest
Guest Posted April 24, 2020 Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) The aforementioned Hildegard Leiding text is divided into two slim volumes. To preserve Leiding’s copyright, one cannot post beyond the following. These are from a Book I. The section below focuses on cards’ orientation to the MP. The four points are, of course, the basis for the Cross/MC Spread. The Good Lord and Good Lady described in relation to the MP. Combinations. The information on the große tafel. Edited April 24, 2020 by Guest
Sar Posted July 31, 2021 Posted July 31, 2021 On 4/24/2020 at 1:51 PM, Guest said: The aforementioned Hildegard Leiding text is divided into two slim volumes. To preserve Leiding’s copyright, one cannot post beyond the following. These are from a Book I. The section below focuses on cards’ orientation to the MP. The four points are, of course, the basis for the Cross/MC Spread. The Good Lord and Good Lady described in relation to the MP. Combinations. The information on the große tafel. Is Mrs. Leiding still alive? Would it be an idea too get in touch with her and ask if her if it is possible her books could be translated to English?
katrinka Posted July 31, 2021 Posted July 31, 2021 As far as I know, she is. This is the only Hildegard Leiding I could find on facebook. And nothing under her current name, Hildegard Leiding-Heinz. If it's her, she's apparently moved on from cards: https://www.facebook.com/hildegard.leiding You could try contacting her. Be warned, though, such enquiries tend to lead nowhere and the final decision may rest with the publisher. (I used to do it all the time with Lenormand. Apparently books by non-readers and hacks are good enough for the english-speaking market.) You'd get better results just acquiring her books in german and typing them into google translate.
Guest Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 As far as I know, Ms. Leiding is still alive. As @katrinkastates translation wouldn’t likely rest with the Publisher. The two books are clear, concise and straightforward. As I stated above (I’m the opening poster) they are thin volumes.
Sar Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 15 hours ago, katrinka said: As far as I know, she is. This is the only Hildegard Leiding I could find on facebook. And nothing under her current name, Hildegard Leiding-Heinz. If it's her, she's apparently moved on from cards: https://www.facebook.com/hildegard.leiding You could try contacting her. Be warned, though, such enquiries tend to lead nowhere and the final decision may rest with the publisher. (I used to do it all the time with Lenormand. Apparently books by non-readers and hacks are good enough for the english-speaking market.) You'd get better results just acquiring her books in german and typing them into google translate. I take a chance and get in touch with her immediately. I am bold because my letter to Stuart (RIP) of USGames changed the decision to not let Whimsical Tarot go OOP, this is over ten years ago, but I still remember the thrill of it.
Sar Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 53 minutes ago, Sar said: I take a chance and get in touch with her immediately. I am bold because my letter to Stuart (RIP) of USGames changed the decision to not let Whimsical Tarot go OOP, this is over ten years ago, but I still remember the thrill of it. Now I am friends with Hildegard Leiding. Oh My gosh this is a big day because I actually prefer Kipper to Lenormand.
Sar Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 1 hour ago, katrinka said: Niiiiiiice...! Hope you keep us posted. I will!
WizardintheWoods Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 (edited) If someone has a link to purchase the 2 Leiding books in German that would be helpful. I tried BooK Depository and Amazon to no luck. I am game to give it a whirl in typing it in to a translate program for my own copies to have in English, lots of time on my hands after and coming surgery this Fall and this will help me keep busy. Edited August 1, 2021 by WizardintheWoods
Sar Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 1 minute ago, WizardintheWoods said: If someone has a link to purchase the 2 Leiding books in German that would be helpful. I tried BooK Depository and Amazon to no luck. I am game to give it a whirl in typing it in to a translate program for my own copies to have in English, lots of time on my hands after and coming surgery this Fall and this will help me keep busy. Tried this ISBN number? https://www.adlibris.com/no/bok/lenormand-wahrsagekarten-set-9783929804089
WizardintheWoods Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 Trying that number gives me a “card set”. Looking at the description of the set and using Google translate gives me this; With these cards, the corresponding astrological zodiac signs as well as house signs have been assigned to the meaning of the Lenormand cards. The book explains the possible combinations and placement techniques and possible combinations of the cards and gives concise, precise instructions for the interpretations. This is from a Book Depository listing at $25.79 USD and listing also states a format of Cards / 100 pages. Does this sound like I am on the right track ?
WizardintheWoods Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 (edited) this looks to be the book cover, found from another source. It makes me wonder if they have combined both slim books into one larger compilation? Being that it is the Sun card, not found in Kipper, on the cover I am thinking I am on the wrong trail 😢 Edited August 1, 2021 by WizardintheWoods
katrinka Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 (edited) That's a Lenormand book. My copies look like this: They're illustrated with the Leidingkarten. Andy's is apparently illustrated with the Original. The ISBNs are 3-929804-04-2 and 3-929804-06-9 Edited August 1, 2021 by katrinka
WizardintheWoods Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 Okay @katrinka those ISBN’s work and bring up the covers you have but sadly not in stock anywhere I can find them. It’s all good, I like a challenge ☺️
katrinka Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 https://www.amazon.de/Leiding-Wahrsagekarten-2-Bdn-Bd-1/dp/3929804042/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=3-929804-04-2+isbn&qid=1627849948&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.de/Leiding-Wahrsagekarten-Bdn-Bd-2-Legetechniken/dp/3929804069/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=3-929804-06-9+isbn&qid=1627850039&sr=8-1
WizardintheWoods Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 @katrinkawell thank you so much. Both are ordered and I had no idea there were different branches of Amazon, time to get out from the Vermont rock I live under.
katrinka Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 I'm just happy it wasn't us alone paying for that silly rocket. 🙄
Sar Posted August 2, 2021 Posted August 2, 2021 7 hours ago, katrinka said: https://www.amazon.de/Leiding-Wahrsagekarten-2-Bdn-Bd-1/dp/3929804042/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=3-929804-04-2+isbn&qid=1627849948&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.de/Leiding-Wahrsagekarten-Bdn-Bd-2-Legetechniken/dp/3929804069/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=3-929804-06-9+isbn&qid=1627850039&sr=8-1 Hmm, I am going to see if I can order from german Amazon.
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