katrinka Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Hey! Ciro has masks!https://www.ciromarchetti.com/product-page/mask Hmmmmmmm. It would be cool if he stayed active and produced art that couldn't simply be scanned and printed on cheap photo paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I feel like this thread and another, with powers combined could do some good. Conclusion... Tarot Card Myth #99 The bad karma from using pirated Tarot decks will not only provide inaccurate readings, but stick to your Aura and infect all future divination attempts. You will then be hit by a bus. All the crystal cleansing and full moon scrubbing won't get that crap off. 🤣 Spread it wide and far my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrinka Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I like that. Maybe "cleansing" should entail throwing those stolen decks out, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggydoll Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 I have seen the name of the new group and I have seen their description. It seems like they are making changes and will not be sharing copyrighted material - at least that is what they are claiming. The group owner states that they didn’t know their former activities were illegal. I personally didn’t find it super convincing, but this is at least some form of progress since the group is being shut down and since it was by far the largest group for such purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrinka Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Disruption is always good. They're limping. I think she's going to give it a week or two and go back to business as usual. I suggest people join and lurk. Keep an eye on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papageno Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 This is a dark day indeed for the Tarot community, whether or not you like his work, that's completely irrelevant. It's even sadder that he's saying his publishers have thrown in the towel. I wonder what how other artists feel about the eventual possibility of being thrown under the bus the way Ciro has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reall Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 7 hours ago, katrinka said: I like that. Maybe "cleansing" should entail throwing those stolen decks out, too. And Buying legit directly from artist/publisher page!:) p.s I would skip that buss part & swap it with something like dark cloud of misfortune & bad luck to make it sound more legit?:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reall Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Papageno said: This is a dark day indeed for the Tarot community, whether or not you like his work, that's completely irrelevant. It's even sadder that he's saying his publishers have thrown in the towel. I wonder what how other artists feel about the eventual possibility of being thrown under the bus the way Ciro has been. this is exactly my point! if big publisher can't bother to fight piracy what we/small selfpublishers/artist can do?x,x facepalm frankly I'm totally with Ciro turning completely to selfpublishibg I would not sell my deck to publisher who don't bother to prevent flood of shabby copies!:) lucky we have forum!:) & we can raise awareness & petition for legislative change that will at least close some markets!:) Edited June 20, 2020 by reall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papageno Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, reall said: this is exactly my point! if big publisher can't bother to fight piracy what we/small selfpublishers/artist can do?x,x facepalm frankly I'm totally with Ciro turning completely to selfpublishibg I would not sell my deck to publisher who don't bother to prevent flood of shabby copies!:) lucky we have forum!:) & we can raise awareness & petition for legislative change that will at least close some markets!:) How long will he continue to sell his special editions before he really calls it quits for good. It doesn't sound too hopeful to me. It's a terrible injustice, he made a lot of money for his publishers. But as the saying goes, nobody ever said life is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reall Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I'm optimistic!:) there is plenty of his decks with big publishers for newbs to appreciate & true fans will always find way to get *special edt!;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I'm not. This has been nagging at him for years, and I think he has finally had enough. And I don't blame him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Rising Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 This is really sad and incredibly frustrating. I constantly see bootlegs on Canadian Amazon, and have reached out to publishers to let them know. Some seem to care, others just say, ‘yeah we know’ and that’s about it. The kicker is that often these bootlegs aren’t much cheaper than the real deal, and because they’ve been ‘Sponsored’ people seem to buy them not realising they are fake. Until they complain in their review that it didn’t come with a book. *cue eye roll* I wish we could report direct infringements to Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 You can actually: worst case scenario, email Bezos himself jeff@amazon.com I did that once and got a LONG call from his secretary and everything was sorted in no time. I don't even remember what it was about - oh wait - yes, the DAMNABLE courier they use, who loses things, makes insane excuses (like that I live up a muddy and impassable farm track, like that they had never had a parcel for me - I had their email saying they did and giving a delivery date - that kind of rubbish). It had dragged on for three weeks of nonsense. He also has a twitter account: https://twitter.com/jeffbezos and there is actually a slot in help for reporting scams or sellers; I'm not sure how it would work, but it's worth a shot.. Only the owners of rights can specifically report counterfeiting, but you could try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedekiel Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) On 6/19/2020 at 7:43 PM, katrinka said: Hey! Ciro has masks!https://www.ciromarchetti.com/product-page/mask Hmmmmmmm. It would be cool if he stayed active and produced art that couldn't simply be scanned and printed on cheap photo paper. Thank you for posting the link to his shop! I feel like, in these hard times for artists, we as a community sometimes feel powerless when these scams spread like infection. I think now is a good time, if any of us have some extra money to spare, to support the artists we see directly affected by these things and buy straight from them, to remind them it's not all bad and to give them a chin up in these trying times. Edited June 21, 2020 by zedekiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Rising Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 10:57 AM, gregory said: You can actually: worst case scenario, email Bezos himself jeff@amazon.com I did that once and got a LONG call from his secretary and everything was sorted in no time. I don't even remember what it was about - oh wait - yes, the DAMNABLE courier they use, who loses things, makes insane excuses (like that I live up a muddy and impassable farm track, like that they had never had a parcel for me - I had their email saying they did and giving a delivery date - that kind of rubbish). It had dragged on for three weeks of nonsense. He also has a twitter account: https://twitter.com/jeffbezos and there is actually a slot in help for reporting scams or sellers; I'm not sure how it would work, but it's worth a shot.. Only the owners of rights can specifically report counterfeiting, but you could try... Thanks, @gregory for this info. The Canadian amazon help pages to report counterfeit stuff really just go in a loop, (Maybe the other Amazon sites are better?) and I wasted so much time on it and just got more frustrated. Glad you were able to sort out your delivery issues - sounds like it was quite the crap shoot with that courier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Hermes. Anyone else in the UK can confirm..... On one memorable occasion they claimed my parcel had never been sent; the delightful seller sent me a double order as he was so upset and then the original order showed up about three weeks later. I probably have enough toner to last me the rest of my life.... (And then there was the time they STOLE a printer I'd bought as a Christmas gift - at least they conceded that it had disappeared under their care....) Though they treat me with kid gloves now, and I did get one driver fired - mean, maybe, as the employment conditions there are SO bad - but the constant stream of lies was just tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirom Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) In the last couple of days I have received feedback from two major publishers that suggest they are more aware and attempting to do something about it. That’s a start. But I also fear it’s too little too late. Pirates are now well organized and fully aware of how to work the system. They know how to flood the various sites with numerous version of any given deck each with similar photos, but bearing different prices and seller identities. But this is just a charade, they are one and the same. But with this approach one of their various tentacles being removed due to a cease and desist letter, is of no consequence. The only solution is to buy either directly from the artists site or from the official publisher. So if there’s a will there’s a way. The real question and ultimately the deciding factor of this issue ever being be resolved is if there is a “moral will”. Will enough people look past the $7 dollar version and instead pay $20 for the legit version. I would think almost everyone reading this on this site certainly would. But as Dorothy said in the Wizard of Oz we are’t in Kansas anymore. Tarot readers and collectors are buying these decks, admittedly In some cases innocently, but that still leaves an ample number of questionable sales that translates into piracy being profitable enough to continue, until of course they contaminate the entire genre.... Edited June 26, 2020 by cirom Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirom Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 8:35 AM, Papageno said: How long will he continue to sell his special editions before he really calls it quits for good. It doesn't sound too hopeful to me. It's a terrible injustice, he made a lot of money for his publishers. But as the saying goes, nobody ever said life is fair. Guess just how much..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sace Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) This has been very informative. I almost wonder if authors of tarot books will begin including information about how to spot fake decks. IMO they should, especially since I've seen more than one book that includes the internet as a source. ETA- I detest Facebook as it is filled with people, bots and groups involved in sketchy sh*t and FB does nothing about it. Edited June 26, 2020 by Sace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrinka Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sace said: This has been very informative. I almost wonder if authors of tarot books will begin including information about how to spot fake decks. IMO they should, especially since I've seen more than one book that includes the internet as a source. They need to. There's a bazillion books out there that parrot the same introductory ideas, but none bringing this issue up.And that's a big part of the problem. Do we really need YET MORE BOOKS saying "Shuffle and cut" or "Cups deal with emotions"? There's an important issue here that is NOT being addressed. 7 hours ago, cirom said: The only solution is to buy either directly from the artists site or from the official publisher. This. THIS THIS THIS. Even if it's an OOP deck being offered on ebay or similar, ask questions. And if you end up getting a pirate deck, MAKE A STINK. Dispute it on paypal, on ebay, whatever. Because even though the deck is no longer in print, the pirates should be kicked HARD at every opportunity. Edited June 27, 2020 by katrinka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papageno Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, cirom said: Guess just how much..... Collectively between U.S. Games and Llewellyn, hundreds of millions. 11 hours ago, cirom said: In the last couple of days I have received feedback from two major publishers that suggest they are more aware and attempting to do something about it. That’s a start. So what has made them see the proverbial light? Their bottom line of course. The overall economy isn't what it used to be (an understatement if ever there was one), people aren't buying tarot, oracles, self-help, etc decks like they used to. I'm sure even Kickstarter has seen a decline to some degree. 11 hours ago, cirom said: Pirates are now well organized and fully aware of how to work the system. They know how to flood the various sites with numerous version of any given deck each with similar photos, but bearing different prices and seller identities. But this is just a charade, they are one and the same. But with this approach one of their various tentacles being removed due to a cease and desist letter, is of no consequence. The only solution is to buy either directly from the artists site or from the official publisher. These tactics have been employed for many years and not just for Tarot decks, everything from denim jackets to electronics. Yes, buy only from the artist or their publisher, and if it's OPP, an absolutely reliable re-seller / collector with an impeccable reputation. Edited June 27, 2020 by Papageno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sace Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 hours ago, katrinka said: They need to. There's a bazillion books out there that parrot the same introductory ideas, but none bringing this issue up.And that's a big part of the problem. Do we really need YET MORE BOOKS saying "Shuffle and cut" or "Cups deal with emotions"? There's an important issue here that is NOT being addressed. This. THIS THIS THIS. I think it should be standard for every "choosing your first deck" section. I just started learning and I'm a little freaked out to learn about this. I'm pretty sure my decks are legit. I purchased from Amazon (I know, still problematic) , beautifully packaged, ALL with lwb, price indicates authenticity, but still I could have easily been duped (if I knew about Wish, fully trusted etsy etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papageno Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Sace said: I purchased from Amazon (I know, still problematic) , beautifully packaged, ALL with lwb, price indicates authenticity, but still I could have easily been duped Amazon is not always a problem. Only some of their third-party sellers are potential problems. In the case of Ciro's decks, (or another artists mass-market Tarot decks) it's ridiculous to go through a third-party seller if you're purchasing one of the mass-market editions, which you can obviously purchase through U.S. Games, Llewellyn, Ciro's website, or his Etsy storefront. Just follow a few simple guidelines when searching the decks on Amazon. Example: Gilded Tarot Royale - $21.67 product description:Ships from and sold by amazon.com. cart checkout description:Sold by:Amazon.com Services LLC Amazon Gilded Tarot Royale Example: Jean Noblet 1659 - $25.00 BNF Reproduction This is authentic, it is Joseph Peterson’s “Twilit Grotto” storefront on Amazon: Amazon Jean Noblet 1659 Twilit Grotto Edited June 28, 2020 by Papageno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Seen on carto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ-ish/Sharyn Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) well they are obviously only reading the backs so safe from deviants, and they've both drawn the same hands. Photoshop..and a world full of idiots. Edited June 28, 2020 by AJ-ish/Sharyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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