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Author Topic: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma !!!***NEW TOPIC CHECK IT OUT***!!!  (Read 3033 times)

Grandma

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The best way to explain what I have in mind here is to insert part of a PM I sent to Aldor44 earlier today:

"Your thread at https://www.thetarotforum.com/tarot-for-yourself/looking-for-fresh-perspective/ has raised many astonished questions and ideas for me, not only about your insightfully unusual interpretations of some of the cards, but about my own reading style and ability and indeed about Tarot itself.

"To raise these concerns in your thread would be to hijack the thread to my own discussion and for my own needs.  Instead, I would like to use it as a springboard for a thread of my own.  I would like to quote you extensively and from the quotes develop lines of discussion.

"It would be a sort of collaboration and would be titled that way - maybe Grandma and Aldor44 Philosophize or something like that."

Aldor44 is enthusiastically and immediately on board, as he let me know in PM.

If you are interested, grab your toga, or your tweed jacket and cigar, or your black beret and marijuana cigarette, depending on what era philosopher you see your self as, and prepare to join in.

You might have to wait a few days, though.  It can take me a while to get started.  So check back in new messages frequently, or even better, check in here now to indicate your interest.  That will serve two purposes: the thread will pop up when you click on the link to replies to your posts, and it will give me incentive to continue!   
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 12:33:31 PM by Grandma »
even though it all went wrong
I'll stand before the lord of song
With nothing on my tongue but hallelujah
        Leonard Cohen

Zen pretty much comes down to three things -- everything changes; everything is connected; pay attention.
        Jane Hirshfield

It all fits together if we let it

Wanderer

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 01:44:01 PM »
Intriguing... you may consider me to be watching very carefully.  8)

Jewel

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 01:47:35 PM »
This thread sounds quite fascinating ... I am intrigued.
"I have no particular talent, I am passionately inquisitive."  Albert Einstein

Saturn Celeste

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 01:51:31 PM »
Color me intrigued!  :))

Grandma

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 02:38:16 PM »
Hey friends -

I'll see your two intrigued and one watching you carefully, and raise you one thrilled, one relieved, one who must now follow through on her word!
even though it all went wrong
I'll stand before the lord of song
With nothing on my tongue but hallelujah
        Leonard Cohen

Zen pretty much comes down to three things -- everything changes; everything is connected; pay attention.
        Jane Hirshfield

It all fits together if we let it

Arabella

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 06:06:52 PM »
I'm in too, Grandma. Just my cup of tea. Off to grab my kaftan and shisha pipe and settle in for some "far out" wisdom.  ;D
The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance." - Alan Watts

Avalon

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 06:23:15 PM »
Grandma...I thought you were just asking for directions to San Jose, now I have to drive down to meet up with you too?  ???
Fine  ::)  ((
If no one comes from the future to stop you from doing it, how bad of a decision can it really be?   

ç(^‿^)ɔ

Grandma

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 07:03:06 PM »
I'll be there with bells on, Avalon!
even though it all went wrong
I'll stand before the lord of song
With nothing on my tongue but hallelujah
        Leonard Cohen

Zen pretty much comes down to three things -- everything changes; everything is connected; pay attention.
        Jane Hirshfield

It all fits together if we let it

Saturn Celeste

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 07:05:06 PM »
Sooo are Shisha pipes required?  O:-)

Arabella

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 07:15:50 PM »
I think so, and paisley cushions and (hopefully for me at least) dirty feet  :D ;D ;D
The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance." - Alan Watts

Saturn Celeste

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2018, 07:23:44 PM »
I think so, and paisley cushions and (hopefully for me at least) dirty feet  :D ;D ;D
Well I actually have a couple paisley pillows and my pipe is a floor model so there's plenty of room to go around for all of us.  Ummm, there's a problem though, I don't smoke Shisha in my pipe.  >:D

Grandma

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2018, 07:40:03 PM »
"Tell 'em a hookah-smoking caterpillar has given you the call'



even though it all went wrong
I'll stand before the lord of song
With nothing on my tongue but hallelujah
        Leonard Cohen

Zen pretty much comes down to three things -- everything changes; everything is connected; pay attention.
        Jane Hirshfield

It all fits together if we let it

Cobweb

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 09:59:47 AM »
It all sounds very intriguing- looking forward to seeing what develops.  (Says Cobweb, while she’s trying to look intellectual!   ;D)

Saturn Celeste

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 10:19:59 AM »
My hookah is fired up and ready!

Since this is in the tarot technique, we do need to philosophize about tarot technique.  I have recently come across a thread that surprised me how readers can get into locked ideas about cards without even knowing the actual given meaning of the cards.  Tarot cards aren't a philosophy.  They began as a game sailors played and as they sailed from country to country, the cards developed.  Here's a little history, it's a copy and paste job with a link to the original page.
________________________________
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot

History
Playing cards first entered Europe in the late 14th century, most likely from Mamluk Egypt, with suits of Batons or Polo sticks (commonly known as Wands by those practicing occult or divinatory tarot), Coins (commonly known as disks, or pentacles in occult or divinatory tarot), Swords, and Cups. These suits were very similar to modern tarot divination decks and are still used in traditional Italian, Spanish and Portuguese playing card decks. 
The first documented tarot packs were recorded between 1440 and 1450 in Milan, Ferrara, Florence and Bologna when additional trump cards with allegorical illustrations were added to the common four-suit pack. These new decks were called carte da trionfi, triumph cards, and the additional cards known simply as trionfi, which became "trumps" in English. The earliest documentation of trionfi is found in a written statement in the court records of Florence, in 1440, regarding the transfer of two decks to Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta.  The oldest surviving tarot cards are the 15 or so Visconti-Sforza tarot decks painted in the mid-15th century for the rulers of the Duchy of Milan.  A lost tarot-like pack was commissioned by Duke Filippo Maria Visconti and described by Martiano da Tortona probably between 1418 and 1425, since the painter he mentions, Michelino da Besozzo, returned to Milan in 1418, while Martiano himself died in 1425. He described a 60-card deck with 16 cards having images of the Greek gods and suits depicting four kinds of birds. The 16 cards were regarded as "trumps" since in 1449 Jacopo Antonio Marcello recalled that the now deceased duke had invented a novum quoddam et exquisitum triumphorum genus, or "a new and exquisite kind of triumphs".  Other early decks that also showcased classical motifs include the Sola-Busca and Boiardo-Viti decks of the 1490s.  In Florence, an expanded deck called Minchiate was used. This deck of 97 cards includes astrological symbols and the four elements, as well as traditional tarot motifs.  Although a Dominican preacher inveighed against the evil inherent in cards (chiefly owing to their use in gambling) in a sermon in the 15th century, no routine condemnations of tarot were found during its early history.  Because the earliest tarot cards were hand-painted, the number of the decks produced is thought to have been small. It was only after the invention of the printing press that mass production of cards became possible. The expansion of tarot outside of Italy, first to France and Switzerland, occurred during the Italian Wars. The most important tarot pattern used in these two countries was the Tarot of Marseilles of Milanese origin.

Esoteric tarot
The earliest evidence of a tarot deck used for cartomancy comes from an anonymous manuscript from around 1750 which documents rudimentary divinatory meanings for the cards of the Tarocco Bolognese.  The popularization of esoteric tarot started with Antoine Court and Jean-Baptiste Alliette (Etteilla) in Paris during the 1780s, using the Tarot of Marseilles.  After French tarot players abandoned the Marseilles tarot in favor of the Tarot Nouveau around 1900, the Marseilles pattern is now used mostly by cartomancers.

Occult Tarot
Etteilla was the first to issue a tarot deck specifically designed for occult purposes around 1789. In keeping with the misplaced belief that such cards were derived from the Book of Thoth, Etteilla's tarot contained themes related to ancient Egypt.  The 78-card tarot deck used by esotericists has two distinct parts:
1. The Major Arcana (greater secrets), or trump cards, consists of 22 cards without suits: The Magician, The High Priestess, The Empress, The Emperor, The Hierophant, The Lovers, The Chariot, Strength, The Hermit, Wheel of Fortune, Justice, The Hanged Man, Death, Temperance, The Devil, The Tower, The Star, The Moon, The Sun, Judgement, The World, and The Fool. Cards from The Magician to The World are numbered in Roman numerals from I to XXI, while The Fool is the only unnumbered card, sometimes placed at the beginning of the deck as 0, or at the end as XXII.
2. The Minor Arcana (lesser secrets) consists of 56 cards, divided into four suits of 14 cards each; ten numbered cards and four court cards. The court cards are the King, Queen, Knight and Page/Jack, in each of the four tarot suits. The traditional Italian tarot suits are swords, batons, coins and cups; in modern occult tarot decks, however, the batons suit is often called wands, rods or staves, while the coins suit is often called pentacles or disks.

The terms "major arcana" and "minor arcana" were first used by Jean-Baptiste Pitois (also known as Paul Christian) and are never used in relation to Tarot card games. Some decks exist primarily as artwork; and such art decks sometimes contain only the 22 major arcana.  The three most common decks used in esoteric tarot are the Tarot of Marseilles, the Rider-Waite tarot deck, and the Thoth tarot deck.
________________________________

So what does this all mean?  It means that tarot cards as we know them has an origin, and they had a purpose.  In the beginning they were simply used in card games played among sailors and wealthy Italian and later French families.  It wasn't until 1789 that Etteilla issued the tarot deck as we know them today with the intent purpose of using the cards in divination.  Tarot cards are like an electrical socket.  The cards contain harnessed energy that is available for use.  When you plug a cord into the socket, the light turns on.  When you pick up your cards and use them, the light shines for the reader.

My philosophy about tarot cards is they have a past, they have a purpose and they have remained through the ages.  There have been books written and videos made to discuss each and every card and their meanings.   While intuitive reading is fine, there is more to tarot than analyzing images.  Images change and so do the meaning of the cards in that respect.  But this rich history of the tarot needs to be looked at and taken into consideration when learning the cards.  They are not some esoteric manna from heaven, they are tangible with a history and meanings and we as keepers of the cards do them justice to know and understand their meanings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFq-EhVdkk&t=116s

Freeli

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Re: Philosophize with Aldor44 and Grandma
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 10:43:22 AM »
Bookmarked this thread  :) I am intrigued too!

 

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