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Author Topic: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.  (Read 2209 times)

HOLMES

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Re: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2018, 10:00:17 AM »

Insightful and informative HOLMES - even some humor in there. X-D

Only yes or no answers =  my younger sister.   No 2.

I have only ever tried a Celtic Cross once on AT and although it was educational and all - I think 3 to 5 cards was enough for me.  No change in 5 or 6 years which was pretty much when I hung the Tarot cap up on the hook.

Sort of stretching those muscles again though.

On here - if I see more than 3 cards put out there I am likely to close that thread down:

1) Who really wants to look at a zillion cards?  Not me.
2) Does a person really need so many cards and then clarifiers on top of that?  Nope.
3) Who has the time to wade through storybooks with some that write everything under the moon in regards to their reading?. Not me.

However, a Celtic Cross does present the use of a spread and covers different areas and can even do topics, and that is good in that way for sure. And it is interesting what you have come up with...

it is true many subjects don't need as many cards as the cross,  which is why I broke down the celtic cross positions into 3 cards spreads perhaps two cards combos .  I think though a person would need so many cards in a couple of examples..
1. they had a major life trauma and trying to process it.  in this case the tarot reading becomes more like a tarot counselling session.
2. they may never see me again and so seek a life question, like career, spiritual development. so the ten cards or 11 cards could serve more then giving out a 3 card reading.
when a client comes for a reading and ask what is best,, I tell them straight up "of course I would want you to get the 50 dollar reading (10 cards celtic cross ) but unless you want a life reading, or a major reading,, for you depending on the situation 3 to 7 cards would server depending on you want, and your price range ".
3. the other key part though is the celtic cross as a teaching tool , kind of like how miyagi has Daniel do wax on, wax off, and It leads to awesome blocking but in reverse as,, you do your kata (10 celtic cross ) which has the blocks and strikes you need .
[/color]



Another thing that can be an issue is when the querent is holding back the truth, is only providing a fragment of the situation, or is really vague. I remember that a lot on AT.

Example:  What future do you see for me and Mark?

Mark who is married to someone else or maybe even the querent being a spouse to another. Some are upfront and some most definitely are not.


Do you think a Celtic Cross can see through something like that?

not going to bs you,, ideally it should come out as some sort of blockage,, perhaps a tower event , yet sometimes it doesn't..
example , I did a reading for a friend and shortly after a loss happened, "why didn't I see it " we weren't looking for it.
I did a really good reading for a friend, but it was a general so they told me afterwards, "I was hoping to see more business details come out as they were looking for details on x. " off hand I can think of about 6 situations in general (so not just related to the celtic cross )  where my readings were too general though I for years felt that it is better to know what we should know then what we want to know , so I just left it up to that when I did the deck of a thousand spreads. I now am more focused on subject intent then what we should know (that said that is in the 9 position so it is covered in a sense )


I know some readers swear that they can see things that are hidden, but am not sure if that is through the cards or being Psychic etc,


DND  X/ X/ X/
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 10:06:41 AM by HOLMES »
the card fall where they will, do not blame me the ghost of tarot present.

DownUnderNZer

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Re: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2018, 12:02:35 PM »


HOLMES

It is interesting how some things do not come up when probably they should and some things come up that are best left alone.   

I would agree with something like the TOWER coming up or a 3 card to show a triangle situation or even just cards that yell out something is not right with the question.

We are not always meant to see everything - we are shown what we need to know at the time.

DND  <3

HOLMES

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using one card readings to apply some parts of the cross
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2018, 01:07:02 PM »
you see every part of the cross is designed to shed light on an aspect of the case so for some quick answers we can use the positions.

1. the past
suitable for
obviously what happened in the past..
when did I change..
what happened to our plans.

2. the foundation, beneath you
this is suitable for why did this happen..
why is he mad.
why am I sad.. 

3,.the oppose
what is blocking me.
I feel like I am a spiritual battle

4. the possible future
what could happen
when may it happen

5.this is above you is suitable for
what is the best possible goal
wha should i aim for

6. the heart of the matter
what is the situation (for people who are confused about it ).
what can i focus on

7. self.
tell me about myself,
how can i improve myself
what do i need to learn to get stronger.

8.outside influences
this is suitable for finding out what is affecting you
how can I deal with my family
how can I deal with my friends
how do I deal with work
could even be who desires me.

9. what should you need to know
note this isnt' the outcome  for this can covers all positions relatively speaking but
you don't know it..so it could be something about the past you don't know.
it could be some outside influences..
in this regard the card would have to speak for itself.. the only clue is you don't know about it so it will shed light.

10. the outcome
here  you are not asking, why, how ,
you are simply asking what is the final outcome ,
"what will happen to me "
how will this end"

11, clarifer
ok here say we know all the details of a situation in life..
so we simply need to rework our strategy or tactic to fine tune everything.
let's say we are lawyers, and have everything worked out..
and turn over a clarifying card just to double check everything.
here we already know the issue, we have an outcome ,so it is to build on it or reduce it as need be.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 01:25:55 PM by HOLMES »
the card fall where they will, do not blame me the ghost of tarot present.

DownUnderNZer

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Re: using one card readings to apply some parts of the cross
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2018, 09:37:09 PM »

So with Position 4 it is only a possibility with the future whereas with Position 10 it is the likelihood of what will occur as an outcome?

They do kind of go hand in hand.

Am going to have to look at it all again when I get home tonight - might even see where I have put away my RW deck. 

Just to look at those two positions mainly.

I do remember finding some of those aspects or positions tricky only not really these two from memory.

No harm in putting it to practice and seeing how it works though. <3

you see every part of the cross is designed to shed light on an aspect of the case so for some quick answers we can use the positions.

1. the past
suitable for
obviously what happened in the past..
when did I change..
what happened to our plans.

2. the foundation, beneath you
this is suitable for why did this happen..
why is he mad.
why am I sad.. 

3,.the oppose
what is blocking me.
I feel like I am a spiritual battle

4. the possible future
what could happen
when may it happen

5.this is above you is suitable for
what is the best possible goal
wha should i aim for

6. the heart of the matter
what is the situation (for people who are confused about it ).
what can i focus on

7. self.
tell me about myself,
how can i improve myself
what do i need to learn to get stronger.

8.outside influences
this is suitable for finding out what is affecting you
how can I deal with my family
how can I deal with my friends
how do I deal with work
could even be who desires me.

9. what should you need to know
note this isnt' the outcome  for this can covers all positions relatively speaking but
you don't know it..so it could be something about the past you don't know.
it could be some outside influences..
in this regard the card would have to speak for itself.. the only clue is you don't know about it so it will shed light.

10. the outcome
here  you are not asking, why, how ,
you are simply asking what is the final outcome ,
"what will happen to me "
how will this end"

11, clarifer
ok here say we know all the details of a situation in life..
so we simply need to rework our strategy or tactic to fine tune everything.
let's say we are lawyers, and have everything worked out..
and turn over a clarifying card just to double check everything.
here we already know the issue, we have an outcome ,so it is to build on it or reduce it as need be.

HOLMES

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Re: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2018, 09:49:10 PM »
"So with Position 4 it is only a possibility with the future whereas with Position 10 it is the likelihood of what will occur as an outcome?
They do kind of go hand in hand. "

true they run along the same energy.. in the celtic cross itself you have the future but it is not the final outcome..it is more the event that will lead to the outcome. i debated with myself often why have an outcome if there is a future. it is for that reason i experimented with just the inner cross lately as an experiment.

for the sake of one card practice (i too also will practice this soon, I  havent' done one card readings on a forum since probaly ten years when i did it as a practice on atf), I had to differnate the energy a little.  it is easier though for sometimes the future event isn't directly related to the outcome.

from here i got one one thing to add to the cross maybe tomorrow, as a practice.



the card fall where they will, do not blame me the ghost of tarot present.

DownUnderNZer

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Re: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2018, 09:54:18 PM »

Will try it whilst going off of this thread later tonight, but just certain positions perhaps.

Just got to come up with a question and that is even harder than giving it a go.  X-D

"So with Position 4 it is only a possibility with the future whereas with Position 10 it is the likelihood of what will occur as an outcome?
They do kind of go hand in hand. "

true they run along the same energy.. in the celtic cross itself you have the future but it is not the final outcome..it is more the event that will lead to the outcome. i debated with myself often why have an outcome if there is a future. it is for that reason i experimented with just the inner cross lately as an experiment.

for the sake of one card practice (i too also will practice this soon, I  havent' done one card readings on a forum since probaly ten years when i did it as a practice on atf), I had to differnate the energy a little.  it is easier though for sometimes the future event isn't directly related to the outcome.

from here i got one one thing to add to the cross maybe tomorrow, as a practice.

DownUnderNZer

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Re: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2018, 10:33:52 PM »

10 years HOLMES?!?  :o

As that saying goes - practise makes perfect.

DND  <3

HOLMES

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doing the celtic cross backwards
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2018, 11:52:29 AM »
the first idea I had to study the celtic cross was to do it backwards, so you start with the outcome and works backwards.
funny it is the last idea I have currently to study the celtic cross. this time I asked for questions from about 5 members who was on at the time. I picked this one below.

what is one of the important life lessons to learn before we die

1.clarifer
3 of swords reversed

it is a message whatever the outcome is to perhaps not dwell on the past so much or to get our hearts. for we have shed enough tears.

2. outcome 
temperance reversed

ideally I would of loved to see it upright , the outcome suggests that we should learn we are human and no matter we do we may never be in perfect harmony  but it could be something to strive for.  in the teachings by orin and daben, the ideal is to become a perfect light (with our souls being our own light ) through incarnatins and soul growth on other dimensions

3. what you need to know
2 of swords

the only way for us to grow is to stop fighting others and seek to have peace through diplomacy.. I recall the teachings of star trek with joan Collins character was a growth movement of peace but it was to early ,for hitler wars hadn't start yet so Americas wasn't up for it.   that was just a story of ideals thgh.. here it is talks about also making peace with one self.  particulary the mind  to harmonize one mind for a common goal.

4. outside influences
9 of cups

it speaks perhaps of the temptations of the world seeking to divert us from our goals.  the nine of cups generally a wish card speaks of the hermit manifesting in the emotional world not to be alone but to speak of sharing his emotional wisdom. the figure in this card reminds me of the friendly giant in ella enchanted who was kind and throwing a party.  so the world is always trying to have a good time to divert us perhaps of the dredges of humanity experiences,, but in the end,, one must move on.  like the person in conan the barbarian said "there comes a time theif when jewels stop sparkling. "


5. self
4 of wands

it shows a couple dancing, It could be their wedding dance (too lazy to get up and get her book ) . I think the lesson where it pertains to the self is to make the most of what we can.. the wedding is a time of celebration but it is a spiritual affair with a lot of work to build towards the union so you can have the blessing that will las the lifetime.  so as you take a break from your spiritual work it is good to bless the bread and the wine and the house. !

6 future
six of swords reversed

in a future there comes a time when the mind becomes tired,, it isn' the four of swords resting the mind to prepare for battle, it is here to get away from the problems of war, strife, though we remain strong we want the calm peace so we can explore our emotional love.  the star in the hills indicates a cave.. to the underworld of who we are. we avoid it in the future for we are tired of looking at our ego and seek to find higher pastures.

7. above you
page of swords

it shows a youth playing with a sword pretending to be playing war. it indicates to me how we as humans are learning to use our minds in powerful ways. like our first win in chess, or our first well done tarot reading.  we are physically learning to use our mind to become one like how a person uses their chi to feel everything in qiqong or tai chi


8 what is behind you
the tower reversed

we are learnt that no matter how we strive , we can not stop towers from falling down,, it is hard to rebuild on shoddy ground..in all our lives we try to change our lives but with our ego and not with divine will. so we are humbled by life experiences.

9 what is beneath you
5 of pentacles reversed

it says to me that we can't change the past,, no matter how good it was or bad it was..so
one we can' relive it.
two It no longer has power over us.
there is a teaching in the course in miracles that we don't see things as they really are,, but we see them as defined by the past. 

10 the opposer
justice

we try to build our lives in a good way,, we should know that good karma for some is a bank where you can build a great amount of it in order to overcome some weakness. 
but then perhaps good can cancel out negative , the saying goes "one good thought can cancel out 100 bad thoughts "
I think of the black widow on the avengers who says "I just want to whipe out red on my ledger "
it is just that it is so hard to whipe out red , especially if it means doing the right thing at all costs.

11 the heart of the matter
7 of cups

some see this as whimsical, flimsy , just a dreaming.
I see it as the chariot with its driving nature manifesting in the emotional world.
what does that mean ?
it means from all our fantasies it is important that we grab one and follow our heart . it doesn't matter if the cup is fighting dancer, glory, sharing our fanatsies as in acting, poems.   looking for riches,  looking for hearth and home, or magic !
the main thing is we look at ourselves in the middle cup and take the mask off, and get deeper and deeper in ourselves to find what it is we really desire.

so looking it backwards it is clear that the reason why most follow the following of dreams is they go to extremes. and get out of balance.  the justice aspect speaks of if what ever we do there is conquences..
if we gather riches ,, someone get poorer, 
if we gather a home,, perhaps it is land that belongs to a spirit if it It is newley built or perhaps it used to belong t someone who couldn't afford it.

the things that can hold us back from following  our dreams is our past,, and the hardships we endured.. or the times we failed our tests so we think we are lesser then we are.

still as we grab the mind and make that decision for that moment we are young again. and by following our heart desire we want it to mean somethings for example if it is a swordfight we don't want it to be with just anyone,, we want to be challenged .. 
and no matter what we cups we choose we should celebrate every milestone,, for that is the journey of life.
the outside influences will tempt us to rest on our luaurels..  you know so much why keep studying.. you acted so much why keep acting.. 
it is because we love it,,
the two of swords is about finding harmony with ourselves to acieve a goal. a kingdom divided between itself cannot stand..
and neither can a person who doubts.
so we know we can not achieve perfection but keep on going to seek the perfect balance..
and remember the hardships we will endure is part of life.. we must continue.

0. soul message.
5 of cups reversed

the thing that holds us back the most is the emotional loss we all endure.. it can affects us for years. . we still got the good memories.. and the promise of life going on..
this is the emotional teachings of the heirphant,, we try to fight it, to say "why can't we have good time all the time "
to do that , there would be no death,, no birth,, life would be stagnant and boring..
so life while you can.. that too shall pass.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 12:51:46 PM by HOLMES »
the card fall where they will, do not blame me the ghost of tarot present.

HOLMES

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in closing
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2018, 12:09:42 PM »
in closing this time.
give it a try,, experiment on what works for you with the cross or not. I added my own personal touch with position 9 for

example.
there are deeper studies of celtic cross
Secrets of the Celtic Cross: The Secret History of the Worlds Most Popular Tarot Spread Featuring New Tarot Reading Methods

Beyond the Celtic Cross: Secret Techniques for Taking Tarot to an Exciting New Level
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/books/beyond-celtic-cross/

The Celtic Cross Tarot Spread: Cutting to the Chase
this book covers all the cards meanings reduce for each postions.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/books/the-celtic-cross-tarot-spread/


i havne't read them. but good luck.
( i accidently hit quote so that is why the extra bye eheh).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 01:21:46 PM by HOLMES »
the card fall where they will, do not blame me the ghost of tarot present.

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Re: study the celtic cross, how, advice, why perhaps.
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2018, 02:36:35 AM »
I started right out with 7 card spreads and for some reason, that's turned out to be the spread I've used most. Not always with named positions but usually some kind of thing that starts off with 7 cards.

The Celtic Cross is a really good spread, in my opinion. I don't use it much but it does have its place and there are variations of it rather than just one, I found out.

 

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