Timing in the Grand Tableau

[Moon-Hermit]

Hey everyone. I have a quick question about timing in grand tableaus.

To give a bit of background, I normally use the houses technique in my GT readings (not the near-far method) and would separate my tableaus into past-present-future segments if I'm not reading for a specific question/ time-frame.

For timing, I've been experimenting with the technique I read about first in Rana George's book, i.e. using time signs. She explains that when you've located the significator, you'll then find a focus card which represents the situation you're asking about and count the spaces between the two; if said card is to the right of the significator, then we're looking at the future, and if it's to their left, it's talking about the past. 

Recently I've done a reading asking about when a procedure is likely to take place. The scythe (which I chose to represent the procedure, the action of cutting away) has fallen three spaces to the left of the significator, the Woman card. I didn't have a specific time-frame in mind, so this would indicate the event has already happened within three time signs in the past... which is not true! I clearly had the intention of knowing when something was going to happen when shuffling my cards and laying the GT. My question is, what would you do in situations like this one, when the method gets a bit tricky to employ? Is there an alternative way to make it work, or would you discard the reading altogether and throw another GT? 99 percent of the time, I'm reluctant to do the latter, since my most accurate GTs are the ones I lay down first. I could use the method of distance and say that, okay, since the Scythe is quite far from the woman it won't be happening soon, regardless of which side the card falls on. But I'm afraid that changing methods in the middle of the reading would muddle things up. What is your advice to approach situations like this, when you can't determine a time frame beforehand and the card falls in an unexpected position?

Thanks in advance, 

Moon-Hermit 🌼✨️

[dancing_moon]

Traditionally, the past/future was determined by where the significator was facing, so if the Woman card in your deck is facing left, this would place the Scythe in your future. More generally, though, if we maintain that the future is strictly on the right side of the significator, the Scythe falling on the left could simply mean the procedure either won't happen in the foreseeable future or will be of less importance than you expect. Sometimes, regardless of what we ask, a more pressing message will be coming through. You might want to look at the cards around the Scythe and the GT in general for more information.

[Moon-Hermit]

3 hours ago, dancing_moon said:

Traditionally, the past/future was determined by where the significator was facing, so if the Woman card in your deck is facing left, this would place the Scythe in your future. More generally, though, if we maintain that the future is strictly on the right side of the significator, the Scythe falling on the left could simply mean the procedure either won't happen in the foreseeable future or will be of less importance than you expect. Sometimes, regardless of what we ask, a more pressing message will be coming through. You might want to look at the cards around the Scythe and the GT in general for more information.

 

Thank you a lot for taking the time to reply, @dancing_moon.

Yes, I know that traditionally the direction the significator is facing affects the time-flow, but personally I don't use it. The Man and Woman cards in my deck don't face each other unfortunately, and I'm also really used to reading from left to right anyway, so I'm afraid reversing the direction would only add to my confusion.

 

That's an interesting view. Maybe I didn’t know what to make of it at the time because of my stubbornness to both keep the tableau and interpret the Scythe in some way. I eventually looked at the cards that were boxing the Scythe and the cards on the same horizon and column as the significator and didn’t see it happening in the foreseeable future, or at least until some kind of obstacle was put behind (The Ship and Clouds were both next to each other above the Scythe and what was between the Scythe and the Woman was the Mountain). I think your advice would be the best way to go about it... again, thanks for reminding me of that fact. Not everything should fall the way we expect it to, sometimes not even in our tableaus. 

[WizardintheWoods]

I read in only one time frame such as present, future or past in a GT.  As I follow Andy B’s book, so my methods are rather traditional as well. This all said I won’t be of much help but do wish you luck. 

Edited January 5 by WizardintheWoods

[Moon-Hermit]

8 hours ago, WizardintheWoods said:

I read in only one time frame such as present, future or past in a GT.  As I follow Andy B’s book, so my methods are rather traditional as well. This all said I won’t be of much help but do wish you luck.

I have read Andy B's book. Needless to say, it's one of the best out there. I've yet to experiment more with single time frame GTs and see where that takes me. Most of the time I divide them into past/present/future, read the cards & the houses and do all my stuff before taking note of which cards are near/far to the significator; just a few key cards like the clouds or the select few that relate to the theme of the question. By the way, thanks for taking the time to read and reply. ✨️

[Misterei]

On 1/3/2026 at 10:15 AM, Moon-Hermit said:

...  my stubbornness to both keep the tableau and interpret the Scythe in some way. I eventually looked at the cards that were boxing the Scythe and the cards on the same horizon and column as the significator and didn’t see it happening in the foreseeable future, or at least until some kind of obstacle was put behind ...

I am not LN expert--so this is the advice of an intermediate. I also do my own thing--so not necessarily using traditional methods.

 

First, if my question definitely has to do with timing, then I timebox the spread. I.e. I specifically ask to see events "from now to 3 months future" [or whatever]

Otherwise I generally follow the convention that the right side is past and left side is future--but this is for general readings rather than asking a specific timing question.

 

You touch upon another method I might use which has to do with "pacing cards". For example is Scythe surrounded by fast cards? Slow cards? Is Significator surrounded by fast or slow cards? 

 

Lastly, if this is a health procedure I would check Tree--what's around tree or what card falls on Tree's house [H5] if you use MOH.  If it happens in hospital I would check Tower card or H19. What sorts of cards fall near Tower or fall in H19? Fast? Slow? Are Stop cards like Coffin or Mountain there? Or fast cards like Rider or Clover?

In this case i am NOT reading the cards' specific meanings as much as doing a "vibe check" for fast or slow pacing of the event in question.

Edited January 5 by Misterei

[WizardintheWoods]

12 hours ago, Moon-Hermit said:

I have read Andy B's book. Needless to say, it's one of the best out there. I've yet to experiment more with single time frame GTs and see where that takes me. Most of the time I divide them into past/present/future, read the cards & the houses and do all my stuff before taking note of which cards are near/far to the significator; just a few key cards like the clouds or the select few that relate to the theme of the question. By the way, thanks for taking the time to read and reply. 

I see perhaps another difference between us, my GT’s are laid out for a specific time period with the intent to show me what I most need to know about that time frame. It is more a general question than say a specific “ what are my prospects for a new job”  or a like.  I find this more general way of looking at the time frame points out to me what I might want to be more aware of.  Just a different perspective to give some thought towards if you like. 

[Moon-Hermit]

4 hours ago, Misterei said:

I am not LN expert--so this is the advice of an intermediate. I also do my own thing--so not necessarily using traditional methods.

We’ve exchanged in the past. You’re an amazing reader. 🙂🩷✨ No worries, I take note of what is traditional but don’t limit myself to that. 
 

4 hours ago, Misterei said:

First, if my question definitely has to do with timing, then I timebox the spread. I.e. I specifically ask to see events "from now to 3 months future" [or whatever]

Otherwise I generally follow the convention that the right side is past and left side is future--but this is for general readings rather than asking a specific timing question.

Yes, I clearly put the intention of a timeframe into my question while shuffling, and that’s for every spread- not just GTs. But I also view the left side columns as past and right side columns as the future even if I’ve selected a timeframe (for example, if I was asking about three months from now, the past in that sense would be just a tiny little bit before the present moment, what events have led up to this point, how the background effects the future, what motivations or recurring patterns are there, etc.) If the significator turns up too much to the right, I still read the tableau as it is and only redo it after I’ve squeezed out whatever I can. If it’s the same again, I may resort to a smaller spread and more precise questions. I don’t know from where I’ve acquired this quirk but it’s stuck with me… and as I said I’m still having to practice not getting myself too stuck on directionality and focus more on future-only tableau experiments, for instance. It’s just a matter of rewiring my brain and teaching myself to be more flexible.

 

4 hours ago, Misterei said:

You touch upon another method I might use which has to do with "pacing cards". For example is Scythe surrounded by fast cards? Slow cards? Is Significator surrounded by fast or slow cards? 

 

Lastly, if this is a health procedure I would check Tree--what's around tree or what card falls on Tree's house [H5] if you use MOH.  If it happens in hospital I would check Tower card or H19. What sorts of cards fall near Tower or fall in H19? Fast? Slow? Are Stop cards like Coffin or Mountain there? Or fast cards like Rider or Clover?

In this case i am NOT reading the cards' specific meanings as much as doing a "vibe check" for fast or slow pacing of the event in question.

I like how you describe this… I’ve never heard of the concept being mentioned as “pacing cards” before. But yes, a vibe check as you put it can help a lot especially when a reading stumps you. I use it both in Lenormand and Cartomancy readings, though with the latter it’s obviously a bit more rigid.

 

I’m thinking of posting the reading in a separate thread once I’ve received adequate feedback and analyze it. Putting my thoughts into writing really helps me learn better. Thanks for all your suggestions, dear @Misterei. I appreciate this from the bottom of my heart. 🌼

Edited January 5 by Moon-Hermit

[Moon-Hermit]

2 hours ago, WizardintheWoods said:

I see perhaps another difference between us, my GT’s are laid out for a specific time period with the intent to show me what I most need to know about that time frame. It is more a general question than say a specific “ what are my prospects for a new job”  or a like.  I find this more general way of looking at the time frame points out to me what I might want to be more aware of.  Just a different perspective to give some thought towards if you like. 

I rarely do GTs without a very specific question- despite many resources saying that grand tableaus are often for general questions or no questions at all. It’s just something that’s stuck with me from a longer period of working with smaller spreads and having to adhere to specific contexts when doing those readings. I also rarely do GTs for myself and save it for big questions or people who give me questions, simply because I’m lazy to pull a lot of cards. Lenormand can be very specific, but in my personal practice in order to get an unbiased answer from a general one you really need to work on your intuition and have absolute trust in what you do. Now that you mentioned this, I remember only once doing a GT for a daily reading though (please don’t be horrified, lol) and only focused on the cards around my significator- the woman- and had fun with it. I still have the reading in my journal. While I didn’t hit the mark with a notable number of stuff, I did have an argument with someone at home, forgot a bunch of really important papers on campus, and witnessed the cab I was heading back home with break down in the middle of a highway🤣🤣  I guess I have to put more time into it and use my cards in newer ways. Thanks for the idea. 

Edited January 6 by Moon-Hermit

[Misterei]

4 hours ago, Moon-Hermit said:

We’ve exchanged in the past. You’re an amazing reader. 🙂🩷✨ No worries, I take note of what is traditional but don’t limit myself to that. 

Aww. Thanks 💖🙏

 

4 hours ago, Moon-Hermit said:

… I’ve never heard of the concept being mentioned as “pacing cards” before. But yes, a vibe check as you put it can help a lot especially when a reading stumps you. I use it both in Lenormand and Cartomancy readings, though with the latter it’s obviously a bit more rigid.

The idea itself isn't mine of course. I think Andy B. book he discusses the "speed" or the "pace" of different cards. Other teachers also. In Tarot I use the knights as "pacing cards" and the number cards as an actual calendar. I've read various LN timing methods from Andy B. and other teachers but none work for me 😒
So I don't even bother trying to get calendar accuracy from LN. Yet timeboxing the spread and vibe check the pacing cards does nearly the same thing.

4 hours ago, Moon-Hermit said:

I’m thinking of posting the reading in a separate thread once I’ve received adequate feedback and analyze it. Putting my thoughts into writing really helps me learn better. 

Me too. writing helps me process information somehow.

[Moon-Hermit]

3 hours ago, Misterei said:

The idea itself isn't mine of course. I think Andy B. book he discusses the "speed" or the "pace" of different cards. Other teachers also. In Tarot I use the knights as "pacing cards" and the number cards as an actual calendar. I've read various LN timing methods from Andy B. and other teachers but none work for me 😒
So I don't even bother trying to get calendar accuracy from LN. Yet timeboxing the spread and vibe check the pacing cards does nearly the same thing.

I must have forgotten then since I don’t memorize the books word for word… in my mind I just know them as “fast/slow” cards…😅

That’s cool. Since I don’t read Tarot (de marseille) and playing cards very differently from each other, I assign a season to each suit and the number of each pip would be a week in that season. I hadn’t thought of using the knights as “pace” cards so thanks for sharing that idea. When I’m itching to know the exact timing of something though, I just lay down three cards and try to note how fast/slow they strike me as in a combination. I’ve found Lenormand to be more specific in these cases. Astrology could help too, especially if one knows it well. I don’t consider my knowledge deep in that area. But, @Misterei, I know you practice vedic astrology. Can it be used with the cards in timing for instance, like how western astrology is used with tarot? Sorry if it sounds silly… I know next to nothing about vedic astrology but I just got curious, lol. 
 

I think the only Lenormand timing method that has resonated with me so far is counting the spaces between cards in a GT as I’d outlined above. Like every other method, it comes with its cons. Otherwise I just read the cards and treat timing questions like any other question.

Though it’s not something traditional, I sometimes incorporate geomancy into my readings, with the help of the insets. I’ve been working on an idea to do timing with Lenormand cards using a geomancy chart… it’s rough and certainly not perfect, but I’ve found that I can make it fit certain contexts.

 

This is one of my personal charts from my journal. Winter and summer look swapped because I use the chart for two purposes: both timing and finding directions. If my question is concerned with timing, I swap the two seasons. What I do is basically construct geomancy figures using some cards that stand out to me. In a GT, that would be the four inner and corner cards, for example. Each set of four cards gives you two geomancy figures, one by color and the other by number. Those two added produce a third figure that we call the Judge. So, in total, I’ll have six figures to work with. I check with my chart, assigning the inner four triangles to the inner cards and the figures that correspond with them, and the outer side by side triangles to the outer cards. Each figure is ruled by a certain astrology figure and favored in a certain house. I check the ones I got from the inner cards (usually only the judge) against the inner four triangles in the geomancy chart and vice versa. If a figure falls near a house it’s favored in, I take that as a time sign and take the zodiac signs as significant. If not, I discard it. Sometimes I get lucky and more than one sign falls in its own favored house, so I get multiple time signs to work with and get an estimate from, if they’re not all over the place. Same thing with finding directions; for example I once asked about the direction of a certain building I couldn’t locate. I got Fortuna Major from the outer cards and that was favored in house 5, so it was North-West leaning more towards the North. You could also skip all this and just place the four inner and outer cards in the chart, looking at which insets match the suits the directions rule. For example if the inner four cards have only one diamond sitting on the right (provided we read them from upper left in clockwise motion; that’s how I read the heart of my GTs and the four corners, so 1-2-3-4 would be left-up-right-down in the chart) then that would align it with the right side of the chart, making either the direction East or the signs very important depending on the question. I never do timing and location readings at the same time with the same tableau. Finally I will use the four bottom cards in the GT to confirm or conclude my findings. This will work differently in different spreads, and oftentimes it’s much simpler to just read the cards. However, it can be helpful when the significator falls all the way to the right with no future but the querent still needs to have a timing question answered. I read the tableau, check the chart sometimes, and then throw another tableau to confirm/discard my findings and give the person a proper reading of the cards. I find it a cool idea to play with when I have some spare time and see where the answers take me, though of course it’s redundant to use it all the time. 

Edited January 6 by Moon-Hermit