When It Comes to the Lenormand.

November 16, 2017

What is it that you find most difficult, want to know more how to do, and feel could be explained or demoed better.

November 16, 2017

Hi DownUnderNZer! We had a couple of interactions on the Aeclectic Tarot forum - it's lovely to see you here!

Lenormand. I love the concept. I LOVE the cards and the images. They really have this no-nonsense vibe about them. Sadly, I had the worst time imaginable trying to do daily draws with them and figure out what they meant. It was sometime only with hindsight that I could see what the cards were referring to, and sometimes not at all. Which kind of defeats the point of reading with them, doesn't it? I also couldn't locate lost items with them. There were so many ways to interpret card combinations. That's the really tricky thing. Donnaleigh posted a video this morning on YouTube about some tips for daily draws -

- which I found quite helpful. I might pick up a deck again and give it a go.

What I found difficult - and perhaps Donnaleigh's tips will help with that - is interpreting the meanings of combinations. And remembering all the different things a card can represent. (And WHY did it represent THOSE things? Maybe if I looked into the history of the cards more fully and could make some links, it would help. E.g. Fish = money? Why? Is it something akin to the goldfish in Chinese feng shui symbolising good fortune?)

And the systems. There's the French and the German. And then there's an English tradition which M.K. Greer highlighted some time back. She'd found a very old LWB in English, if I remember correctly. We're not supposed to mix the traditions. It makes sense, but how do you choose which one to learn? Are there any considerations to take into account?

And is it true that some divination methods just don't 'work' for some people? I won't give up just yet, but I was coming to the conclusion, some time ago, that Lenormand and I were incompatible. :( I really don't want that to be the case...

And how do you 'learn' the meanings? I've been using Tarot for almost 20 years and it has taken time to develop a comfortableness with it - and even then, a deck that I haven't worked with before and that departs a bit from the RWS can throw me - but at least I can fall back on intuition. This is not possible with the Lenormand. It's no nonsense. It isn't about psychology, it's about the black and white. (Which is so refreshing! Love it.)

So yeah. Love the system, but feeling frustrated. I'd love some tips on how to decide on a system, how best to learn how to read (daily draws didn't work for me), how to approach Lenormand for a reading, how to interpret combinations, and why images mean the things they do. Some background info would help me remember them better. :)

I have Rana George's book and it's simply AMAZING! But I've had difficulty seeing how her sample readings in the book related to the meanings she gave for the cards. It's like there's a step missing or something, and no doubt the fault is mine in not being able to see it.

Crumbs, can you tell I'm a bit frustrated with Lenormand. Frustrated, but not giving up. Not just yet, anyway! :)

November 16, 2017

I was expecting a few sentences or maybe a paragraph and I was just curious not expecting to answer anything.

Anyways, not sure where to begin, so will just write what comes to mind.

SYSTEMS

There are more than just the French and German, but only so many cards have various different meanings except for the Brazilian system which is a system upon itself.

I know both the French and German but prefer the French.

I am one of those that believe systems should not be mixed because I have seen some get confused when cards like Fox, Anchor, Moon, Tower, or Bear come up in the same spread and know them to be "job" or "work" and likely from "various sources", not just one book. But when they are all looked upon as "work" or "job" - how do you really answer any work/career/job questions?.

They are ALL core cards for "work" and "job" only they ALL come from different systems.

That is why I do not agree with systems being mixed and especially with those that are just learning or have no understanding of what they are trying to learn.

Know one system and understand others I reckon or mix them when you have a solid understanding. It can be done, but one really needs to know the craft beyond the basics.

The French system isn't heavy or so foreboding like the German which is not too different to the Gypsy Witch in some ways.

RANA GEORGE

I saw a very short video of Rana George I liked a few years ago and one recently which made me question what we are like as readers when it comes to reading.

The reading eventually answers the question, but I am not sure she used vocabulary beyond the basics and it made me question myself, readers in general, and how she reads in comparison to her book and what is actually written for in-depth meanings.

Some readings we can read the cards to the point and I actually feel traditional reading is along these lines.

With her, the first part of that spread is about what Stacy needs to work on yet I am not sure if it is a part of that spread or just what she chooses to go into for her sitter at the very start.

Key is a good example of what she does not really elaborate on and I wonder why she did not bring up things like Stacy going through some major life event and/or facing significant changes and/or decisions to do with her life. She touches on a singular meaning for it which is the word:"Important".

Nothing more than that really.

Bear as being "strong" is another one.

As mentioned above, some questions can be answered quickly and to the point, but sometimes there is more to an answer than just one word or sentence.

VIDEO LINK:

You stated that you do not see how she gets what she gets sometimes when she reads. Like you are seeing A go to G, but not what is in between to build it up to G.

I am wondering how to put this so it is simple.

With experience, there is "patterns" seen as a reader that goes beyond basic meanings and this is what I think you are classing as being "missed" in a reading. It is not that anything is being "missed", but rather the reader has evolved to a different level altogether. They are no longer at the start of the race track so as to speak and have their own nuances or intuitive insight that is still within the Lenormand meanings.

For example, last year I worked out that BEAR and LILY, in one reading actually tied to someone's ancestral side (Patriarchal). So, now if I was to do a reading along those lines I would remember to keep those two cards in mind if they ever came up again.

BEAR can be Patriarchal (French system) and LILY (French system) can be to do with things like DNA, hereditary, and/or genes. (Diseases like cancer).

It comes down to experience and working with the cards a lot.

Mind you, in the above video, there are certain points missed.

But as readers in general do we cover everything all of the time or miss things some of the time.

YOU & LEARNING

I learned the GT first, so not individual cards at a time but rather lines, windows, diagonals, boxes, near and far, tic tac toe, snapshot views etc etc etc. And I had no books or anything on the internet to assist in any way plus there was also a language barrier.

No one knows this really, but I had no deck to start with either just pieces of paper and a memory that I had to rely on greatly for a little while there. And my memory had to be on to it as much as possible as well as my eyes.

I was not even supposed to be a part of the group that was invited to learn and yet I was the only one out of 10 people that did get it. The only one. Language limitations, no books, no cards, but unlike the others I was determined.

I am a product of a learning environment that was hard and difficult and I was thrown into the deep end from the very start with both the German and French systems without even knowing it.

So.....

If I did it with no resources and a number of limitations I reckon it is possible for anyone to learn. No excuses really.

Each person is different and everyone has their own way of learning.

Perhaps it is true that some do not connect to the Lenormand, but then this goes for all kinds of divination. It is "sink or swim" and some take to whatever divination like a duck to water whereas others go down with the Titanic.

The only limitation really is YOURSELF.

Hi DownUnderNZer! We had a couple of interactions on the Aeclectic Tarot forum - it's lovely to see you here!

Lenormand. I love the concept. I LOVE the cards and the images. They really have this no-nonsense vibe about them. Sadly, I had the worst time imaginable trying to do daily draws with them and figure out what they meant. It was sometime only with hindsight that I could see what the cards were referring to, and sometimes not at all. Which kind of defeats the point of reading with them, doesn't it? I also couldn't locate lost items with them. There were so many ways to interpret card combinations. That's the really tricky thing. Donnaleigh posted a video this morning on YouTube about some tips for daily draws -
- which I found quite helpful. I might pick up a deck again and give it a go.

What I found difficult - and perhaps Donnaleigh's tips will help with that - is interpreting the meanings of combinations. And remembering all the different things a card can represent. (And WHY did it represent THOSE things? Maybe if I looked into the history of the cards more fully and could make some links, it would help. E.g. Fish = money? Why? Is it something akin to the goldfish in Chinese feng shui symbolising good fortune?)

And the systems. There's the French and the German. And then there's an English tradition which M.K. Greer highlighted some time back. She'd found a very old LWB in English, if I remember correctly. We're not supposed to mix the traditions. It makes sense, but how do you choose which one to learn? Are there any considerations to take into account?

And is it true that some divination methods just don't 'work' for some people? I won't give up just yet, but I was coming to the conclusion, some time ago, that Lenormand and I were incompatible. :( I really don't want that to be the case...

And how do you 'learn' the meanings? I've been using Tarot for almost 20 years and it has taken time to develop a comfortableness with it - and even then, a deck that I haven't worked with before and that departs a bit from the RWS can throw me - but at least I can fall back on intuition. This is not possible with the Lenormand. It's no nonsense. It isn't about psychology, it's about the black and white. (Which is so refreshing! Love it.)

So yeah. Love the system, but feeling frustrated. I'd love some tips on how to decide on a system, how best to learn how to read (daily draws didn't work for me), how to approach Lenormand for a reading, how to interpret combinations, and why images mean the things they do. Some background info would help me remember them better. :)

I have Rana George's book and it's simply AMAZING! But I've had difficulty seeing how her sample readings in the book related to the meanings she gave for the cards. It's like there's a step missing or something, and no doubt the fault is mine in not being able to see it.

Crumbs, can you tell I'm a bit frustrated with Lenormand. Frustrated, but not giving up. Not just yet, anyway! :)

November 17, 2017

Oh, no, I didn't mean to answer me - I was just replying to your topic!! :-[

But thank you for your response all the same.

November 17, 2017

Been thinking today about all the books and resources out there in English now compared to 10 years ago and why is it some have such a difficult time. I started learning about 13 or so years ago. I was introduced to them around 2002, but I did not take an interest in them straight away at all.

I would not change the way I learned, but I wonder how different it would have been had I had books and resources.

Would I have taken to it like a duck to water or would I have struggled a lot too?

I know transitioning was hard for me, but once I got my feet firmly on the ground I never looked back.

But what if I came in at a time like now - I wonder just how easy or how difficult it would be.

Oh, no, I didn't mean to answer me - I was just replying to your topic!! :-[

But thank you for your response all the same.

November 17, 2017

Been thinking today about all the books and resources out there in English now compared to 10 years ago and why is it some have such a difficult time. I started learning about 13 or so years ago. I was introduced to them around 2002, but I did not take an interest in them straight away at all.

I would not change the way I learned, but I wonder how different it would have been had I had books and resources.

Would I have taken to it like a duck to water or would I have struggled a lot too?

I know transitioning was hard for me, but once I got my feet firmly on the ground I never looked back.

But what if I came in at a time like now - I wonder just how easy or how difficult it would be.

That's an interesting point. There are so many YouTube videos, books, blog posts, entire websites, courses, tutorials, and even a couple of podcasts devoted to Lenormand that it's easy to become overwhelmed and to mix up systems and to really just wander around confused and, eventually, lost.

I won't take up too much more space here - I know you started this thread specifically for lists of difficulties people have with the Lenormand - but I will take on board your suggestions and recommendations. Thank you again. :)

November 17, 2017

Like Starlight I too love the Lenormand and am determined to learn it!! But as a beginner I also find it challenging for several reasons.

Like most of us I cannot rote memorize the meaning of a card, I need to understand why it has that meaning, and which meaning sits best with me. Often I prefer the meaning for a card from one tradition, and the meaning for another card from another tradition, yet it is always suggested not to mix traditions, so, aargh.

I've tried letting the cards dictate the meaning by asking questions I already know the answer to, but I will get different cards representing the same thing. So for work often I will get the fox or the tower; for lover i've gotten the bear or the rider; the lilies have come up as peace/harmony/purity, and then again as older male. etc.

And aren't there both positive and negative takes for each card? The cross can be spirituality or burden. But because it is deemed a 'negative' card, therefore dampening any 'positive' or 'neutral' cards next to it, it gets confusing if that should still apply when the cross's meaning in a particular spread is actually saying something good. I would presume not?

(Sorry I don't know how to explain that better...)

Regarding three-card pulls, there seem to be so many different ways of reading it--is the center card the main theme, or is it a descriptor/modifier of the first card and so on. This has been explained so many times, yet readers still seem to contradict themselves. Even when it is laid out up front that the middle card is to be read as adjective of the first card, the reader then proceeds to read the cards more sentence-like, the middle card being an action taken for eg. There doesn't seem to be any consistency even when layout/structure is defined up front.

I suppose the key is to decide these things first and then read accordingly. But then I'm still conflicted about which meanings to go with...

Thank you for starting this topic DownUnderNZer!

November 18, 2017

Thanks for sharing what you find frustrating and difficult.

Am going to try and quote and unquote to answer what I can in your write up.

Like Starlight I too love the Lenormand and am determined to learn it!! But as a beginner I also find it challenging for several reasons.

Perhaps like Starlight pointed out (or me) - there are a lot of resources available in English nowadays and it is this that confuses most learners. Many wanting to know everything, so getting as much on their plates as possible, but the consequence is it gets overwhelming and confusing.

However...

A) Not all sources state what system is being shared.

B) Some learners tend to mix meanings from different systems without knowing it.

C) Some only go off of what is on the Internet, not books, or other avenues.

D) Some choose to go with intuition only and do not even get the basics down packed.

Like most of us I cannot rote memorize the meaning of a card, I need to understand why it has that meaning, and which meaning sits best with me. Often I prefer the meaning for a card from one tradition, and the meaning for another card from another tradition, yet it is always suggested not to mix traditions, so, aargh.

Let me ask you this:

Do you read the Tarot and understand and know the different meanings of those 78 cards which can have, in some cases, up to 10-20 meanings for just one card on its own.

So, why would it be any different with the Lenormand?

This is not directed at you or meaning to come down like a tonne of bricks on anyone, but...

What is hard about remembering the basic core meanings for each card. And we are talking about 36 cards, not 78!

Is it perhaps clashing with Tarot or so alien to it that it is harder to connect with somehow? Is the Lenormand being read like Tarot? There has to be a reason.

As for mixing I think you need to understand one system quite well before exploring, experimenting, and/or mixing another system with it although I do not see why it is necessary.

No system is pure, as it was pointed out to me not too long ago, but they do exist and each does have its own subtle differences.

I've tried letting the cards dictate the meaning by asking questions I already know the answer to, but I will get different cards representing the same thing. So for work often I will get the fox or the tower; for lover i've gotten the bear or the rider; the lilies have come up as peace/harmony/purity, and then again as older male. etc.

What do you mean "different cards representing the same thing"?

Do you mean when you ask about love you also get Fox or Tower as well and/or work you get Bear or Rider.

Or is it something else altogether.

What system do you mostly follow? Do you know?

Fox is French and Tower is Gypsy yet Tower in general stands for official type work like banks, hospitals, government, schools, and even real estate and/or small to medium-sized businesses.

Do you choose random cards or a key card for each question?

And aren't there both positive and negative takes for each card? The cross can be spirituality or burden. But because it is deemed a 'negative' card, therefore dampening any 'positive' or 'neutral' cards next to it, it gets confusing if that should still apply when the cross's meaning in a particular spread is actually saying something good. I would presume not?
(Sorry I don't know how to explain that better...)

POSITIVES and NEGATIVES for each card.

Only 7 cards really are negative in the deck in a direct way and if you are one of those that goes by the playing card inserts this would impact on it as well.

I do not do the playing card inserts as I know the Queen of Spades on the Bouquet is nothing like that card at all!

However, you are talking about when cards flank one another and how those cards side by side can influence depending on which side they fall, so the outcome can either be good or not so good.

If it was SUN+CROSS then that would not be good (negative), but if it was CROSS+SUN then that would be good (positive). And it all depends on if CROSS is seen as FATE or not.

If you read it like this, 1,2,3,4 and 5, then the fifth card would have the final say really.

Coffin+Lily+MAN+Cross+Sun (Positive)

Coffin+Lily+MAN+Sun+Cross (Negative)

And if like this:

Cross+Sun+WOMAN+Anchor+Rider

Sun+Cross+WOMAN+Anchor+Rider

The first two is the recent past to past or what is likely behind the querent depending on the question, but still Positive or Negative. However, the last two cards have the most say, and the last one is the overall outcome really.

Left to right as in 1,2,3,4,5, but it does not mean it is just 1,2,3,4, 5, as you can still do mirroring, knighting, pairing etc. Usually, however, it does seem to flow in a certain direction from the first card chosen to the last one.

To each her or his own though.

Regarding three-card pulls, there seem to be so many different ways of reading it--is the center card the main theme, or is it a descriptor/modifier of the first card and so on. This has been explained so many times, yet readers still seem to contradict themselves. Even when it is laid out up front that the middle card is to be read as adjective of the first card, the reader then proceeds to read the cards more sentence-like, the middle card being an action taken for eg. There doesn't seem to be any consistency even when layout/structure is defined up front.

I was not taught adjectives/nouns and modifiers/descriptors plus if you were to look at this combination in a love question:

Heart and Snake and Snake and Heart both mean cheating, unfaithful, issues in love etc.

Some combinations definitely do have something to say whereas others mean the exact same thing.

Maybe not the best example, but just to give you an idea:

Heart+Book = Romance Novel - Book+Heart = Hidden Attraction.

It depends on the combination and how the reader sees it or how they have been taught if taught.

If you are doing line spreads like 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4,5 etc then read it from the first card pulled to the last one. And any other way if you want to get more information. But the last card pulled should have the final word.

I suppose the key is to decide these things first and then read accordingly. But then I'm still conflicted about which meanings to go with...

Thank you for starting this topic DownUnderNZer!

The German and Dutch systems are heavy compared to the French.

Andy B - Dutch

Caitlin Matthews - Dutch

Sylvie Steinbach - French

Rana George - French

As for meanings - all of the above systems have similar meanings except maybe for about 5 cards in each.

E.g. Fox = Work (French)/Moon = Work (Dutch)/ Anchor = Work (German).

NOTE:

Not all people in France that use the Lenormand use the Fox as work and I am sure this would go for other countries as well, but then France, Germany, and Belgium are all neighbors so it would make sense that there would be some kind of crossover between countries in the few hundred years the Lenormand has been around.

November 18, 2017

Let me ask you this:

Do you read the Tarot and understand and know the different meanings of those 78 cards which can have, in some cases, up to 10-20 meanings for just one card on its own.

So, why would it be any different with the Lenormand?

May I answer this?

My first tarot deck was the Mythic Tarot by Sharman-Burke, Greene and Newell. Each card was based on Greek Mythology - there was a story that tied into the meaning of the card. Whole suits followed a Greek myth. Knowing the story and which part of it was being depicted in the cards made learning those cards' meanings very easy.

This is not the case with the Lenormand.

BUT this discussion (and I know this thread wasn't meant to be a discussion (eep)) has given me an insight into how to learn the card meanings. Harry Lorayne. Memory techniques. Creating a story. Or a list. Or a memory place. Or something along those lines.

I can DO that!

Finally!! Breakthrough!! I know how to approach getting to grips with this black and white, no-nonsense, tell-it-like-it-is divination tool. (I just have to settle on a system, and make sure the source I learn from isn't mixing things up.)

November 18, 2017

Make sure the source is reputable and/or find out what differences exist so you do not mix them yourself.

In addition, do not make the mistake of looking at the TOWER and MOON as being the same as what they are known for in the TAROT. And although MOON (Lenormand) can be about EMOTIONS and ESOTERIC there is more to it than just those labels.

Tower (Lenormand) is not like the Tower in Tarot at all.

Let me ask you this:

Do you read the Tarot and understand and know the different meanings of those 78 cards which can have, in some cases, up to 10-20 meanings for just one card on its own.

So, why would it be any different with the Lenormand?

May I answer this?

My first tarot deck was the Mythic Tarot by Sharman-Burke, Greene and Newell. Each card was based on Greek Mythology - there was a story that tied into the meaning of the card. Whole suits followed a Greek myth. Knowing the story and which part of it was being depicted in the cards made learning those cards' meanings very easy.

This is not the case with the Lenormand.

BUT this discussion (and I know this thread wasn't meant to be a discussion (eep)) has given me an insight into how to learn the card meanings. Harry Lorayne. Memory techniques. Creating a story. Or a list. Or a memory place. Or something along those lines.

I can DO that!

Finally!! Breakthrough!! I know how to approach getting to grips with this black and white, no-nonsense, tell-it-like-it-is divination tool. (I just have to settle on a system, and make sure the source I learn from isn't mixing things up.)

November 26, 2017

Oh my goodness, I JUST saw this. Thank you so much for your advice!!

Yes, I think too many choices might contribute to my confusion. I do like seeing the differences between systems and ways of reading to get a bigger-picture perspective. In the end though, I guess Lenormand is best approached starting specific, then expanding, rather than starting big and whittling down.

Forgive my tech-ignorance here, I have to use actual quotes when referring to your replies...lol:

"Do you read the Tarot...why would it be any different with the Lenormand"

I was under the impression that the Lenormand meanings were pretty much set in stone, precisely to avoid having 10-20 meanings of a card. So if a snake meant something sinister, then that card could only mean something sinister (and slight variations on the theme), and not also long winding road, or piping, or transformation, etc. Certainly the question would help clarify the intended meaning, but many times it doesn't.

(not a tonne of bricks at all, I appreciate your insight!)

"Mixing systems"

I see the differences between systems as cultural interpretations of the same core concept of a card or the "Greek myth" of a card. And yet, the system differences are significant enough that they completely change the meaning of a reading depending on which system you go with. So that's perhaps part of my problem--defaulting to what I think is the Greek myth of a card, rather than the specific system/culture's take on it, leaving it too wide open to interpretation.

"Different cards representing the same thing"

Yes I mean when I tried to let the cards dictate their meanings/playing around with which system I might ultimately adopt--I'd do a reading on work and the fox would come up to represent work; then I'd do another reading on work (the same work, not different) and the tower would come up as work. My point I guess was that my little experiment was more confusing than not. Or perhaps I'm not skilled enough yet to recognize that the readings were telling me something different.

Flanking cards--yes thank you that makes sense. I think I was overcomplicating things.

"Heart+Book = Romance Novel - Book+Heart = Hidden Attraction"

Love this example. So much simpler than the utterly confusing modifier/adjective. The way I was learning (the 2nd card being the adjective), Heart+Book would actually mean Hidden Attraction and Book+Heart = Romance Novel. Completely opposite, and required my brain to make a rather contorted leap backwards (into confusion!). I much prefer your way -- reading straight left to right. Sweet relief.

Thank you both! I'm pulling my Lenormand back out again with fresh eyes. And picking a system once and for all and running with it.

November 27, 2017

I have Rana George's book and she says in it that she leans towards the French system. But her card meanings are VERY thorough. She breaks meanings into categories: person, location, timing, advice, and several more, etc. I'll do this slowly; take my time, create stories around the card and the meanings and see how I get on. Thank you, DND.

December 6, 2017

Good on you and best of luck!

BTW:

When it comes to the Lenormand there is definitely symbolism like the Tarot. For example, DOG meaning friendly or CHILD meaning small, naive, innocent, but everything changes depending on the question.

Practice and different situations are your best source of working out what fits or not. So, know your core or basic meanings first, learn to apply them to what is asked and do not go off on different tangents, and adjust your approach through trial and error.

FISH is not FENG SHUI as such although along those lines when it comes to fortune for certain. As I see it with two or more FISH it means LOADS or LOTS OF and therefore ABUNDANCE.

According to one source:

During the 1620s, goldfish were highly regarded in southern Europe because of their metallic scales, and symbolised good luck and fortune. It became tradition for married men to give their wives a goldfish on their first anniversary, as a symbol for the prosperous years to come. This tradition quickly died, as goldfish became more available, losing their status. SOURCE :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish

So maybe it stems from remembering how Goldfish were viewed in the 1620s, but for Europe not China.

I have Rana George's book and she says in it that she leans towards the French system. But her card meanings are VERY thorough. She breaks meanings into categories: person, location, timing, advice, and several more, etc. I'll do this slowly; take my time, create stories around the card and the meanings and see how I get on. Thank you, DND.

December 6, 2017

As for Rana George someone that wrote a review (not the most positive) said in her E-book version of THE ESSENTIAL LENORMAND George states that she follows the "French, Belgian, Dutch" systems. (I read this last night).

The reviewer kind of puts it across that Sylvie Steinbach's book has kind of been copied.

Whether a copy or not - she did what Steinbach was not quite able to do.

I did take a look at it once some years back, but to me, it was a lot of waffling on and I could not get into it at all. Personal stories bore me. That is just me.

The video I saw a few years back I did like. The one recently - she was too vague and the vocabulary was not there at all which was an eye opener and questionable question moment.

I have Rana George's book and she says in it that she leans towards the French system. But her card meanings are VERY thorough. She breaks meanings into categories: person, location, timing, advice, and several more, etc. I'll do this slowly; take my time, create stories around the card and the meanings and see how I get on. Thank you, DND.

December 6, 2017

This thread is interesting. I'm dipping my foot (as in more than a toe) into Lenormand these days and it's a bit intimidating to learn a whole new system. I think I can manage without blending too much tarot in - it's interesting that the same named cards can be so different. I'll let you know if there's anything I struggle with! Right now I'm sticking to single cards to get to know them and I might branch out to 2 cards in a bit.

December 6, 2017

Oh my goodness, I JUST saw this. Thank you so much for your advice!!

Yes, I think too many choices might contribute to my confusion. I do like seeing the differences between systems and ways of reading to get a bigger-picture perspective. In the end though, I guess Lenormand is best approached starting specific, then expanding, rather than starting big and whittling down.

I started big and learned to adjust to one card, pairs, and small spreads especially when I wanted a freer reading style. But in my case I had no choice - it was just the way it was for me back in 2002/2003 to 2009/2010.

"Do you read the Tarot...why would it be any different with the Lenormand"
I was under the impression that the Lenormand meanings were pretty much set in stone, precisely to avoid having 10-20 meanings of a card. So if a snake meant something sinister, then that card could only mean something sinister (and slight variations on the theme), and not also long winding road, or piping, or transformation, etc. Certainly the question would help clarify the intended meaning, but many times it doesn't.
(not a tonne of bricks at all, I appreciate your insight!)

Where do I begin?

There are definitely core meanings, but over time these meanings have evolved to include things now like Snake = Pipes and more definitions to one card.

I do not quite follow that train of thought 100% like SNAKE = PIPES.

Traditional German meanings are quite to the point:

19th Century: CLOVER: Good luck, happiness, good fortune. CLOVER with CLOUDS next to it (either side I think) then sorrow, distress, or grief. SOURCE: Lenormand Symbols (Anthony Louis)

You would not want to mess with a hardcore traditional reader on your journey as some are set in their ways and not flexible at all. Some of the worst card wars have been over the Lenormand between Traditionalists and others.

"Mixing systems"
I see the differences between systems as cultural interpretations of the same core concept of a card or the "Greek myth" of a card. And yet, the system differences are significant enough that they completely change the meaning of a reading depending on which system you go with. So that's perhaps part of my problem--defaulting to what I think is the Greek myth of a card, rather than the specific system/culture's take on it, leaving it too wide open to interpretation.

It comes down to the reader. Some GTs I have seen and done have been read the exact same way regardless of by who, when, and why.

If FOX is work and ANCHOR is work why would they be read any different?

What kind of job is he in?

Tree, Scythe, FOX, Tower, Garden.

Tree, Scythe, ANCHOR, Tower, Garden.

Health field (Tree), doctor or surgeon (Tree+ Scythe) FOX (Work), Hospital, Government and/or small to medium size enterprise/business (Tower) and public. (Garden).

Health field (Tree), doctor or surgeon (Tree+ Scythe) ANCHOR (Work), Hospital, Government or small to medium size enterprise/business (Tower) and public. (Garden).

The problem would be when all those work cards from different systems come up together and the person reading gets confused by them in that way if all are seen as work cards not anything else.

Is it really about being wide open to interpretation?

"Different cards representing the same thing"
Yes I mean when I tried to let the cards dictate their meanings/playing around with which system I might ultimately adopt--I'd do a reading on work and the fox would come up to represent work; then I'd do another reading on work (the same work, not different) and the tower would come up as work. My point I guess was that my little experiment was more confusing than not. Or perhaps I'm not skilled enough yet to recognize that the readings were telling me something different.

If choosing a key or focus card to represent work then you only need one card to represent WORK. Tower from what I have found out is used in the Gypsy System and I have actually seen one use Tower as WORK and as BUSINESS trained in that system.

Go figure?

If choosing random cards then it should be what cards turn up regardless of whether a key card is there or not.

All you need to do is to work out how to apply the cards to the question even if basic.

Flanking cards--yes thank you that makes sense. I think I was overcomplicating things.

"Heart+Book = Romance Novel - Book+Heart = Hidden Attraction"
Love this example. So much simpler than the utterly confusing modifier/adjective. The way I was learning (the 2nd card being the adjective), Heart+Book would actually mean Hidden Attraction and Book+Heart = Romance Novel. Completely opposite, and required my brain to make a rather contorted leap backwards (into confusion!). I much prefer your way -- reading straight left to right. Sweet relief.

Thank you both! I'm pulling my Lenormand back out again with fresh eyes. And picking a system once and for all and running with it.

There are some combinations that would have certain meanings for sure, but I do not do the modifier/adjective method as I was never taught it.

What if you were asked by a friend what kind of relationship will I have with my new budgie (bird) and got:

X X RING SNAKE HEART

Who is going to be cheating on who??? :o :o :o Your friend or Mr Budgie?

Generally, SNAKE and HEART is just that as in cheating or a treacherous relationship, but would it really be that with a bird? More like bitter sweet and/or difficult yet loving. Maybe treacherous if that bird was a secret weapon s/he did not know about and was spying on everyone as an undercover.

Just be careful and work out what fits or not.

What if Y wanted to know what kind of situation she'd be in by the time she was ready to work again after being made redundant for 2 months or so and you got:

x x x WOMEN FOX COFFIN CHILD

FOX+COFFIN = Unemployed, losing a job, end of work situation.

Unemployed? Does it mean no job is going to be on the table when Y is ready? Or one will crop up only for Y to lose it not long after starting or just before?

The situation Y will be in is key.

So, where will that person be at in her or his life, is what is being asked.

COFFIN+CHILD

Ready to move on from the old (COFFIN) and on to something new (CHILD). A fresh start.

FOX+COFFIN+CHILD

Difficulties, issues, and/or work situation (FOX) tied up or at an end (COFFIN). Ready to move on from the old (COFFIN) and on to something new (CHILD). A fresh start.

It always comes down to what is asked and how the cards are applied. That comes with practice and trial and error.

Bad habits - are something else altogether.

When It Comes to the Lenormand.

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