Lenormand vs Kipper

[Starlight]

I wasn't too sure where to post this, so I hope it's in the right place.

 

I have both Lenormand and Kipper decks. The Kipper, for some reason, has felt more accessible and easier to read with, but I am going to dive a bit more deeply into Lenormand and see if I can get comfortable with that system, too.

 

The Kipper and Lenormand don't have a too much of an overlap in terms of similar cards - ones that come to mind are Man/Woman vs Main Person (male & female cards), and Coffin vs Death.

 

Question: for anyone who uses multiple divinatory tools, do you find that you get the meanings of similar cards in the different systems mixed up? Or have you found a way to keep them separate? If so, would you mind sharing how you do it?

 

I'm thinking that my main block is to HOW to keep everything straight and in neat compartments. My brain seems to be fully committed to finding links and connections EVERYWHERE. Great for intuitive readings; not so great when you need to keep to a more black and white way of looking at things. :)

 

Thank you.

[Starlight]

For anyone interested in comparing both systems, I found this article:

 

https://thesibylstarot.com/2016/05/07/lenormand-vs-kipper-similar-and-different/

[Starlight]

Aaaand yet another link. It's a resource I'm going to go through (when I can find some down time) and mine it for the techniques various cultures used and are still using to remember vast quantities of information:

 

http://www.lynnekelly.com.au/the-memory-code/

 

(I'm just posting these links in case anyone is also interested in the learning methods that can be used to become familiar with a divinatory tool.)

[DownUnderNZer]

 

 

I love the Kipper just as much as the Lenormand only in a different way.

 

I use them when I want to look at people more and situations. E.g. Legal.

 

I do not mix them up with the Lenormand at all plus the reading style is a bit different although using all 36 cards too. Mind you it is excellent just for added insight and using one or two cards as well for that rather than a spread or all 36.

 

Going off of memory, as it has been some months since last used, when using all 36 cards you have to look at what is above the querent first and on the same row with the direction, that card faces, as being the future or what is upcoming. In addition, certain cards next to the MAIN PERSON card put a timing on it compared to if that card was at a distance. Unless the question is asked with a time frame of course. I do like how some cards deliberately alter the meanings of what is around them which is quite direct. E.g. False Person.

 

I have never mixed anything by mistake, so maybe I am good at putting things in different compartments.

 

 

 

 

[Flaxen]

I use Lenormand and Kipper and have also found it quite easy to compartmentalise them. I don't get the meanings mixed up. In tarot terms, I also manage to keep my Thoth, RWS, Greenwood readings quite distinct. Perhaps it's a knack that comes with practice?

 

When I have time, I like to do a 9 card reading for the month ahead using Lenormand and Kipper. It makes for quite a nuanced reading.

[DanielJUK]

I've not really had any problems getting them confused and things like the Mystical Kipper and Lenormand have similar art / symbols on both decks. I learnt Lenormand first and used to struggle with forgetting the Tarot meaning of some of the cards, Sun, Moon, Tower, etc are completely different and in my head I never saw them as being similar.

 

I've not had any problems between Kipper or Lenormand and I also find Kipper easier and more accessible. I think I find the cards relate more for me in the readings I do than the Lenormand which I have to analysis a bit more. I also find Kipper has given me better readings but maybe it's just a personal connection to the card type. I do enjoy reading with both  :)

[Starlight]

Thanks, everyone. It's really good to hear that you don't mix up the cards. There's hope for me, then! :D

 

I don't have a lot of experience with either deck, but I was exploring both just before the Aeclectic Tarot forums closed. Of the two, I definitely felt more comfortable with the Kipper. I think you've hit the nail on the head, DanielJUK[/member] - there's a bit more analysis about Lenormand. I wonder if that's the stumbling block for me. Using intuition to put the cards together logically in a reading. Or even, using logic to intuit the message. Hmmmm....

[Flaxen]

I quite fancy doing some Kipper studies/exchanges - perhaps I could start a card-by-card study group if people are interested?

[Starlight]

I quite fancy doing some Kipper studies/exchanges - perhaps I could start a card-by-card study group if people are interested?

 

I'm interested! The only Kipper resource I have is the LWB that came with the deck. I'd love to learn more about the meanings of the cards and how the Kipper is commonly used (spreads, how to read them, what they're used for, and so on).

[Flaxen]

Great! I have some German resources which I can translate. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to attach images here. Can't seem to get a hosting site to work for me and photos from my phone are too large.

[gregory]

imgur works for me....

[Flaxen]

Thanks, gregory. I used to have a Flickr account but I can't remember what email I registered with - a yahoo one I think which is now defunct. I've tried imgur but I can't use it without downloading the app on my phone (all of my forum browsing is via mobile) and I can't download the app because I can't install the latest IOS update.  >:(

 

Still, I'm due an upgrade so perhaps a newer phone will sort that issue.

[Starlight]

I've just tried something here.

 

I copied a picture from the internet and pasted it directly into the Post reply window. I toggled the window first so that I could see the image. The only thing to watch out for is how big the image is.

 

 

[EmpyreanKnight]

Hey, that's the logo of the Fin de Siecle Kipper!

[EmpyreanKnight]

I think linking to hosted images is OK. The problem is that when the owner decide to take the page or image down from the site that they host, the image you posted would also disappear so that future visitors won't see them anymore.

 

That's why I upload the images that I want to directly display in a thread in a reliable and free pic hosting site. I agree with gregory that imgur is a good one. That's what I use anyway.

[Starlight]

Hey, that's the logo of the Fin de Siecle Kipper!

 

Ooops, is that breaching copyright? Crumbs, hang on. I'll delete. Thanks for the heads up.

[EmpyreanKnight]

Hey, that's the logo of the Fin de Siecle Kipper!

 

Ooops, is that breaching copyright? Crumbs, hang on. I'll delete. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Oh wait. I was just excited about the Fin de Siecle since I only recently got mine. So when you posted that pic I was like - "hey, that girl looks familiar!". My apologies for the misunderstanding, Starlight.

[Starlight]

Hey, that's the logo of the Fin de Siecle Kipper!

 

Ooops, is that breaching copyright? Crumbs, hang on. I'll delete. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Oh wait. I was just excited about the Fin de Siecle since I only recently got mine. So when you posted that pic I was like - "hey, that girl looks familiar!". My apologies for the misunderstanding, Starlight.

 

lol. All good. (You never know, it might have been a breach of copyright. I didn't think of that when I posted it.)

 

How do you like the Fin de Siecle? I'm SO TEMPTED to get a copy. :)

[EmpyreanKnight]

I love it! I also have the previous mass market edition of the Gilded Reverie Lenormand, and together they make a beautiful pair, much like the Mystic Kipper + Lenormand. The golden gilt edges of the Reverie and the silver of the Fin de Siecle invites sun and moon metaphors. And the characters in the cards!

 

I never really liked Marchetti's art before, but the Fin de Siecle made me take a look again. I even bought the Easy Tarot set with the Gilded Tarot in it since I liked his Kipper so much.

 

Only thing is, it is bigger than most poker-sized decks and some may take exception to that. Otherwise, buy away!

[EmpyreanKnight]

Just a disclaimer tho, I'm not an expert on the Kipper so my appreciation of the Fin de Siecle is based more on its aesthetic and production value. I don't know if the images fit rigorously into the requirements of the system since I haven't explored the intricacies of the Kipper. But if it is anything like the Reverie, I think it should be good.

[Flaxen]

Fin de Siecle is a beautiful deck - I have it as an app. Just be aware  that there are some extra cards which don't appear in the original cards.

[Starlight]

Thanks, flaxen[/member] . Perhaps I'll wait till I'm more comfortable with the normal system, before I buy the Fin de Siecle. Thank you for letting me know. :)

[DanielJUK]

Starlight, that is great advice from Flaxen and EmpyreanKnight. I greatly love the Fin de Siecle and glad I own it but it's a new modern stylised take on Kipper and some cards are changed or added or a different take on the theme. If you want traditional Kipper, it's not and I was really glad I started with the Mystical Kipper which is more traditional in it's system. I could then see how the Siecle did it as a modern take. There are lot's of Kipper decks out there and I would learn the system with one with the traditional structure. Then you can fully appreciate the wonderfulness of the Siecle :)

[katrinka]

The Mystisches is also fairly recent, and a lot less traditional than the Fin de Siecle, as there is a certain amount of artistic license and additions to the cards that don't jibe with the original meanings. There's little animals and fantasy creatures all over it. Angels sitting in taverns and winged greyhounds are fun to look at, but they're window dressing - they don't have anything to do with the actual meanings. I really don't think of it as a beginner deck at all. Better to learn the system first before transitioning to a deck like that.

 

The Fin de Siecle, the Salish, and the Leidingkarten are good beginner decks.

 

So is the Original. The whole reading method grew around the Original. That's the one with all the clues and lore. The yellow wreath on A Death points to what caused it. The driver on A Journey emphasizes the card he points to with his whip. Hands in pockets, Cupid statues doing this or that - all these things mean something. It's a lot to learn at once, though. It will give you a proper start, but the Fin de Siecle might be easier. Ciro researched the meanings before he did the pictures. They're illustrations of the concept - in many cases, clearer than what you see on the Originals.

 

Toni Puhle has recently released a deck and book. She's a solid reader, but I don't have her book yet and so can't comment at present. I'm going to pass on the deck - personal taste - but it should readable and OK for beginners.

[Starlight]

Starlight, that is great advice from Flaxen and EmpyreanKnight. I greatly love the Fin de Siecle and glad I own it but it's a new modern stylised take on Kipper and some cards are changed or added or a different take on the theme. If you want traditional Kipper, it's not and I was really glad I started with the Mystical Kipper which is more traditional in it's system. I could then see how the Siecle did it as a modern take. There are lot's of Kipper decks out there and I would learn the system with one with the traditional structure. Then you can fully appreciate the wonderfulness of the Siecle :)

 

Thank you, DanielJUK[/member] - I'm so sorry I haven't responded before now - I actually didn't get any notification about the new post in this thread.... I have the Mystical Kipper (love the artwork) and I'll keep working with that. Thank you for weighing in. :)