lenormand playing card inserts

[stephanelli]

So all this activity lately in the Lenormand section has got me working with my own deck more.  I'm very much a beginner, still working on the basic pairs and triplets.

But curiosity struck (happens frequently).

What is the benefit of using playing card inserts in Lenormand?  What's the point of them?

 

For the record, my current Lenormand deck doesn't have them.  I just have the Mystical Lenormand by Regula Elizabeth Fiechter, painted by Urban Trösch.

 

 

 

 

 

[fire cat pickles]

Originally, I memorized the playing card inserts so I could use a regular playing card deck for Lenormand readings. 

[HOLMES]

I only made it through the hearts so far. The inserts helped me to understand them better. 

Like i look at the house and think king of hearts a man who may rule the house. And thenn could refer to the hair colour. 

Perhaps suppose reading for a queen. And looking for the lady..

The queen that matches her hair could be seen as a secondary lady.. as the queens are the querent of that suit. 

In a way to put in tarot terms imagine sticking 2 cards together like the queen of cups and another card. 

Or the 7 of cups and another card.

 

For now at the basic level it helps me to see a card deals with friendship, luck, work , or challenges. 

 

So it is like learning there is for example an astrology system or qabbalistic system written right on the tarot card should one decide to use it.

( like the tarot card that has the astrology or qabbalah on them like tarot of sepheroth.).

 

Umm i was inspired to even learn as i saw on a couple of posts ober the past year playing cards with ship and respective lenormand titles on them 

So when i came back sort to speak. It seemed like another way to learn the cards, like a perhaps a reverse engineer look. 

I look forward to reading the others answers. 

 This may help you.

[katrinka]

40 minutes ago, stephanelli said:

What is the benefit of using playing card inserts in Lenormand?  What's the point of them?

 

To look for the preponderance of a certain suit. You just have to remember that it's German, so Clubs are trouble and hardship, Spades are growth, etc. More on that here - you can get seasons and other information from the insets.

 

Additionally, the Courts can be people (though some aren't often read that way.) There's other things some people use them for, like Etteilla's Multiples. I much prefer decks with insets!

[katrinka]

30 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

 

 This may help you.

Umm...I'm a little past five minutes in and she's already made a mistake. The images couldn't have been assigned to the cards "randomly", else we wouldn't have all those rough cards associated with Clubs. You can see the suit associations in all the cards. It's an old Alemannic reading method. 

I don't know of any connection between Hechtel and the coffee cards, either. They have some things in common, but that could have been due to sharing a common influence. You can't say that Lenormand derives from coffee cards if there's no evidence that Hechtel ever saw them.

That's why it's a good idea to be skeptical of 99.999% of youtube, lol.

Edited April 15, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

The playing cards are neither random nor contradictory. Even if we discount the German associations, you will see that cards of a similar nature are grouped — Letter, Park, Anchor, Boat, Child, Flowers and Lilies all in Spades. Suit dominance tells us about the ambiance, ease or energy.

In addition the Hearts and Spades can be seen as the paternal and maternal lines. Or if needed you and your in-laws.

We do not know why each one got the specific pip. But it’s clearly not random. Court Cards are people. Do they meet your gaze? Also you can note multiple values.

 

People who say they’re contradictory tend to be comparing them to the tarot. The card often cited is the Boat. But if you look you will find the 10♠️ was associated with voyages and water. 

[joy]

From an artist point of view I prefer the ones without the inserts but I can see that the inserts help with the meaning. As a total beginner for me it is important to have the inserts, they give me an additional 'hint'.

[stephanelli]

8 hours ago, fire cat pickles said:

Originally, I memorized the playing card inserts so I could use a regular playing card deck for Lenormand readings. 

Interesting idea!

8 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I only made it through the hearts so far. The inserts helped me to understand them better. 

Like i look at the house and think king of hearts a man who may rule the house. And thenn could refer to the hair colour. 

Perhaps suppose reading for a queen. And looking for the lady..

The queen that matches her hair could be seen as a secondary lady.. as the queens are the querent of that suit. 

In a way to put in tarot terms imagine sticking 2 cards together like the queen of cups and another card. 

Or the 7 of cups and another card.

 

For now at the basic level it helps me to see a card deals with friendship, luck, work , or challenges. 

 

So it is like learning there is for example an astrology system or qabbalistic system written right on the tarot card should one decide to use it.

( like the tarot card that has the astrology or qabbalah on them like tarot of sepheroth.).

 

Umm i was inspired to even learn as i saw on a couple of posts ober the past year playing cards with ship and respective lenormand titles on them 

So when i came back sort to speak. It seemed like another way to learn the cards, like a perhaps a reverse engineer look. 

I look forward to reading the others answers. 

 This may help you.

Interesting, thanks for this and the video.  I admit I prefer to learn by reading than watching so I'm not sure I'll get very far through the video, but its nice to hear from a fellow beginner!

8 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

To look for the preponderance of a certain suit. You just have to remember that it's German, so Clubs are trouble and hardship, Spades are growth, etc. More on that here - you can get seasons and other information from the insets.

 

Additionally, the Courts can be people (though some aren't often read that way.) There's other things some people use them for, like Etteilla's Multiples. I much prefer decks with insets!

Thanks!

I've not done much with playing cards, mostly using them in place of a tarot deck with RWS meanings thrown on them (I wanted to do a reading and it was all I had!)

I'll have a read through that thread, I had missed that one in the section!  I should have started there!

7 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

The playing cards are neither random nor contradictory. Even if we discount the German associations, you will see that cards of a similar nature are grouped — Letter, Park, Anchor, Boat, Child, Flowers and Lilies all in Spades. Suit dominance tells us about the ambiance, ease or energy.

In addition the Hearts and Spades can be seen as the paternal and maternal lines. Or if needed you and your in-laws.

We do not know why each one got the specific pip. But it’s clearly not random. Court Cards are people. Do they meet your gaze? Also you can note multiple values.

 

People who say they’re contradictory tend to be comparing them to the tarot. The card often cited is the Boat. But if you look you will find the 10♠️ was associated with voyages and water. 

Thank you 🙂

37 minutes ago, joy said:

From an artist point of view I prefer the ones without the inserts but I can see that the inserts help with the meaning. As a total beginner for me it is important to have the inserts, they give me an additional 'hint'.

That's a fair point!  I only have one deck which I picked entirely on the fact that I liked the imagery it showed.  It doesn't have playing card inserts but I'm beginning to think a deck with inserts would be useful.  I shall see how I get on for now, I may adapt my deck or buy a new deck at some point, BUT, not right now (so no enabling me please anyone!)

[katrinka]

It's about art for a lot of people coming from Tarot. I think the insets make the cards more interesting looking than the single images alone, though. And without the insets, a lot of contemporary artists feel the need to add to the card images, the way we feel the need to hang pictures on a blank wall. But the things they add are often poor choices. 

[HOLMES]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:02 AM, katrinka said:

Umm...I'm a little past five minutes in and she's already made a mistake. The images couldn't have been assigned to the cards "randomly", else we wouldn't have all those rough cards associated with Clubs. You can see the suit associations in all the cards. It's an old Alemannic reading method. 

I don't know of any connection between Hechtel and the coffee cards, either. They have some things in common, but that could have been due to sharing a common influence. You can't say that Lenormand derives from coffee cards if there's no evidence that Hechtel ever saw them.

That's why it's a good idea to be skeptical of 99.999% of youtube, lol.

 

I was browsing my Caitlin Matthew's book and in her history she mentions a 2013 article by mary k greer who found a connection to coffee grounds. 

https://marykgreer.com/2013/07/12/a-new-lenormand-deck-discovery/

And a bit later writes of how hechtel incorporated the coffee ground cards into the lenormand. 

It was just a paragraph or 2, 

I am thinking since the you tube vid says 5 years so about 2015, 

And caitlin book came out in 2014. 

That it was one of the basis for the coffee ground connectioms

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

And a bit later writes of how hechtel incorporated the coffee ground cards into the lenormand. 

It is conjecture, Holmes.
 

During research we review primary and secondary sources. Primary sources are direct observations such as correspondence, diaries or interviews. No papers of Hechtel survive. We cannot, therefore, state that he a) saw the coffee cards or b) incorporated them into the Das Spiel der Hoffnung.  

There are differences between the coffee cards and the Das Spiel der Hoffnung.  Until we can demonstrate Hechtel saw the cards and account for the changes we cannot state the coffee cards are the antecedent of the Das Spiel der Hoffnung.