Direction indicates nuance.

[Guest]

Mr. Boroveshengra wrote in his very elucidatory blog that:

Quote

Directional clues form part of attendance. Direction indicates nuance.

 

Would he or anybody else who knows more about the topic be kind to explain a bit further about that? What's the difference between directionality and direction? What kind of nuance we can gather from that? 

 

I'm sorry if this was asked before. It's my denseness to be blamed.

[Guest]

Hello @fabfranco

 

I can clarify my perspective, but there are differing opinions.  So it is just my opinion. In addition, my differentiation between direction and directionality is not shared by some readers.

 

Direction is the use of the cards’ images to fine tune a combination.  

 

For example:

 

Birch Rod (Kn♣️) + Scythe (Kn♦️) + Hound (10♥️).  These three cards indicate a unexpected end to a friendship.

But what causes the rupture? The tip of the Scythe can tell us.
 

In the Wanderwust Lenormand, it points below. If it was a short line we could not use direction.

But if it was a carré, and the Bear fell beneath the Scythe, I can say the friendship ends because of controlling behaviour. 

 

 

Another directional clue is the Book. Its spine is what is known or where to look. The pages are what is unknown or to be discovered. The Key opens (yes) and locks (secured).

 

Heart (Kn♥️) + Key (8♦️) + Book (10♦️) tells me that an emotional tsunami brings everything out. But because the Key secured the Book it might be missed. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Guest
Typo

[Guest]

Directionality is the term I use for when a reader uses the Significator’s facing to determine past and future. 
 

For example, in the top row the Gentlemen looks left. So the Hound (10♥️) is the past and the Bear (10♣️) his future. The Gentleman’s moving into a less subservient position.
 

 

In the bottom three cards, the Lady looks right. So, the House (K♥️) is her past and the Park (Q♠️) her future. The Lady’s going out and is ready to mingle. 
 

Readers who do this read in the direction of the Significator. So the Gentleman’s are read right to left, and the Lady’s left to right. 
 

I believe that we read the cards as laid.
 

So if I followed this method I would lay the Gentleman’s right to left and read right to left.

 

Readers who use directionality skip that bit, which makes no sense to me. 

@katrinka can perhaps shed more light on it

[katrinka]

33 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

@katrinka can perhaps shed more light on it

Not really - you've essentially covered it.
I just want to add that none of this is exclusive to Lenormand. Kippers are one obvious example, but people use direction with Tarot, etc. as well. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Kippers are one obvious example, but people use direction with Tarot, etc. as well. 

Yes.
 

All too often direction and directionality is said to be “German.” But then you look and see it in counting in the direction of the Significator, &c.

 

The auspicious and inauspicious stuff seems to come from sinister and dexter. 
 

I didn’t know if you could remember any of Malkiel‘a directions. He used so many - I remember the Fox’s head and tail. 

[Guest]

Great teachings again! Thank you very much @timtoldrum. It's such a pleasure to learn from you (I was rereading what you wrote about card meanings in your blog, and it DOES resonate!).

 

Does the blanket on Coffin mean something special, concerning directions too? If so, what does it mean? By the way, what other cards should I pay attention, direction-wise?

 

May I argue (foolhardily) that it all depends on the deck I'm using? Some decks tend to invert the position of those imagetic details...

 

Also, is directionality a must in readings? 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

But if it was a carré, and the Bear fell beneath the Scythe, I can say the friendship ends because of controlling behaviour. 

 

 

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but what's a carré? Is it a way to lay the cards, as a spread? If so, which situations are more appropriate to lay the cards in that form?

[katrinka]

https://translate.google.com/?sl=fr&tl=en&text= carré&op=translate

 

[katrinka]

6 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

All too often direction and directionality is said to be “German.” But then you look and see it in counting in the direction of the Significator, &c.

 

Germans do seem to like it. 
But it certainly isn't exclusive to them. Philippe Camoin does it, lol.
 

6 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

I didn’t know if you could remember any of Malkiel‘a directions. He used so many - I remember the Fox’s head and tail. 

TBH, I don't. 
I have an old, nonfunctioning laptop with some videos of his that I grabbed, but I have no clue how to access them. Or even if any of that is addressed - it's been some years since I watched them. 

I could try messaging him. He might make a video about that. 
Or not. It really depends what's going on and the mood he's in, lol.

[Guest]

Thank you @katrinka. Here, in Brazil, it stands for a cut of meat. Go figure!

[_R_]

2 hours ago, katrinka said:

But it certainly isn't exclusive to them. Philippe Camoin does it, lol.

He does, as do a few other French tarologists. The idea of direction - and later, gazes - goes back some time, but to the best of my knowledge it was first (or more fully) codified by Claude de Milleville back in the 80s, something that ought to be more generally known. Credit where due etc. Her book is a trove of more advanced reading methods.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, fabfranco said:

Great teachings again! Thank you very much @timtoldrum. It's such a pleasure to learn from you (I was rereading what you wrote about card meanings in your blog, and it DOES resonate!).

 

Does the blanket on Coffin mean something special, concerning directions too? If so, what does it mean? By the way, what other cards should I pay attention, direction-wise?

 

May I argue (foolhardily) that it all depends on the deck I'm using? Some decks tend to invert the position of those imagetic details...

 

Also, is directionality a must in readings? 

Hello @fabfranco

 

It is nice to hear that the content is appreciated. One of the reasons I focus on traditional-style cards is that I believe that the cards’ meanings are encoded within the (whole) image. Consequently, you are correct that direction is deck specific. That itself can cause some problems.

 

Generally speaking, in an A - B pair the A card is the topic or control card. So if you had the Fox card it indicates a falsehood or something wrong. That would be identified by card B. If that was the Fishes, we can say a financial scam or fraud.

 

However, according to some the tail of the Fox is honest. So, if you are using the Blaue Eule Lenormand, it totally reverses the A - B pairing. 
 

That makes no sense imho. It is this reason I use it only for details. Otherwise it gets messy. 
 

The direction cards vary from reader to reader. In addition they’re not limited to horizontal combinations. For example, I use one that seems limited to me: the High Tower above (future/long term forecast) and below (past/current forecast). 
 

The pall on the Coffin is supposed to indicate what has ended. The exposed side is what is dying, or sickly.  
 

17 hours ago, katrinka said:

I could try messaging him. He might make a video about that. 
Or not. It really depends what's going on and the mood he's in, lol.

Lol. Yes. I did once ask him why he didn’t change the direction he laid the cards. He told me because you just don’t lol

 

He is a nice guy though. 

 

14 hours ago, _R_ said:

He does, as do a few other French tarologists. The idea of direction - and later, gazes - goes back some time, but to the best of my knowledge it was first (or more fully) codified by Claude de Milleville back in the 80s, something that ought to be more generally known. Credit where due etc. Her book is a trove of more advanced reading methods

 

Yes. Quite a few of the playing card readers used regards and they were all illiterate . 

 

 

[Guest]

Thank you, @timtoldrum! Much appreciated, as usual. 

 

So, let me get this right: the Book, the Scythe, the Coffin, the Clouds are the 'universal' cards which directions play a strong role. And, in your case (I must test this in my readings, as well) the Tower. Am I enrolling all the cards which directions have significance? Am I missing any? 

 

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, fabfranco said:

So, let me get this right: the Book, the Scythe, the Coffin, the Clouds are the 'universal' cards which directions play a strong role.

Can play a strong role. Sometimes one does not need the additional details. It is an issue of emphasis and circumstances. Think of it as another technique like houses, knighting and so on. You use with it with discretion.

These are the ones I know of:

 

The Clouds (light/dark), the Serpent (head/tail), the Coffin (covered/uncovered), the Scythe (handle/blade), the Fox (head/tail), the Mountain, the Road, the Mice, the Book (page/spine), the Key (bit/shaft) and the Cross (left/right). 
 

The Road and the Mountain are sometimes cited but not with consistent associations. One would suspect it is because the image is inconsistent – some Roads have 2 - 4 paths, and so on. 
 

I believe that the Mice eat what is to its left and ruin what is to their right (others say defecate on whereas some other readers say hide/ignore). However some cartomantes pick a mouse and use it’s head. If it faced right they might switch the eat to the right and the ruin/dececate/hide or ignore to the left. 
 

Beyond that I cannot say much to help. 

[katrinka]

51 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

 

The direction cards vary from reader to reader.

And not only that, the same card can vary. Some use the Scythe's point, others use the whole blade. Both are sharp. 
And with the Book, the spine is what's known. But I've also seen what the Book opens to as what's known. There's logic to that, too, since the knowledge is in the pages. 

 

58 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

However, according to some the tail of the Fox is honest. So, if you are using the Blaue Eule Lenormand, it totally reverses the A - B pairing. 

Yes. When it starts to get contradictory, it's time to let it go, IMHO. 
Imagine the confusion in the anglo Kipper community, lol. All most of them use is Puhle (which is ALL directions and directionality) and they're getting the sadly inevitable flood of decks that happens when something catches on here. Yes, you go with the directions of the cards you're using, but when you depend on the card images to tell you which way to move, well...

 

4 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

The Road and the Mountain are sometimes cited but not with consistent associations. One would suspect it is because the image is inconsistent – some Roads have 2 - 4 paths, and so on. 

One of the forks in the Road is virtually always wider than the others - I do remember Malkiel using that as the best route to take.
 

15 hours ago, _R_ said:

The idea of direction - and later, gazes - goes back some time, but to the best of my knowledge it was first (or more fully) codified by Claude de Milleville back in the 80s, something that ought to be more generally known. Credit where due etc. Her book is a trove of more advanced reading methods.

 

I wasn't aware of her, so thank you. 
We're at a serious disadvantage here. Most of the books we get aren't even worth looking at - kind of juvenile, with lots of white space. Often the authors don't even know their subject. It's really bad, but it sells for some reason. I do wish we got translated works. 

 

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, katrinka said:

And not only that, the same card can vary. Some use the Scythe's point, others use the whole blade. Both are sharp. 
And with the Book, the spine is what's known. But I've also seen what the Book opens to as what's known. There's logic to that, too, since the knowledge is in the pages. 

Yes. I remember someone on FB (Dutch) who read the card above the Book as known because it is shown open on the Carta Mundi. 

 

21 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Yes. When it starts to get contradictory, it's time to let it go, IMHO. 

This. 

 

22 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Imagine the confusion in the anglo Kipper community, lol. All most of them use is Puhle (which is ALL directions and directionality) and they're getting the sadly inevitable flood of decks that happens when something catches on here. Yes, you go with the directions of the cards you're using, but when you depend on the card images to tell you which way to move, well...

Yes. I am still persevering with the Kipperkarten, but had to put Puhle aside due to the illustrations and emphasis on direction and directionality which was confusing. If you had her deck it would be okay, but sometimes it’s too different. 
 

I found Leiding easier despite school boy German!

31 minutes ago, katrinka said:

One of the forks in the Road is virtually always wider than the others - I do remember Malkiel using that as the best route to take.

So that’s where it came from. I remember someone called Stacey doing that. 

[katrinka]

7 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

Yes. I am still persevering with the Kipperkarten, but had to put Puhle aside due to the illustrations and emphasis on direction and directionality which was confusing. If you had her deck it would be okay, but sometimes it’s too different. 
 

I found Leiding easier despite school boy German!

 

Leiding is very clear. 🙂

Puhle is good for card meanings, but I always warn people off of the "True Bavarian Method" - which she copyrighted. Copyrights are for intellectual property, not traditions, which tells us all we need to know about it. 

 

If the rest of us are "reading it like Lenormand" and doing it wrong, I suppose that goes for the German readers, too - who never heard of "Stop Cards" prior to that book.

[Guest]

So, after reading you both @timtoldrum and @katrinka saying that :

Quote

Yes. When it starts to get contradictory, it's time to let it go, IMHO. 

 

 

I think I'll let it pass for the time being. I'll be focusing on the essence of the cards, it seems the right thing to do. 

 

But thank you both a lot for enlightening us. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Leiding is very clear. 🙂

 

Yes. The two books are slim volumes but clear and too the point. The under, behind, over and before delineation has been particularly illuminating and I find that cross spread useful. Thus far I am using that and short lines and the 3 x 3.
 

12 minutes ago, katrinka said:

If the rest of us are "reading it like Lenormand" and doing it wrong, I suppose that goes for the German readers, too - who never heard of "Stop Cards" prior to that book.

Yes. I gave up asking about that. No one knew anything and as the explanations were not clear I put the book away. 

[katrinka]

15 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

Yes. The two books are slim volumes but clear and too the point. The under, behind, over and before delineation has been particularly illuminating and I find that cross spread useful. Thus far I am using that and short lines and the 3 x 3.

It's good to know you're still at it. 
Right now the noise-to-signal ratio is almost as bad as Lenormand, obviously. You can see the difference (many apparently can't) but it must be annoying nonetheless.