An I Ching deck

[remod]

I hope this is on topic, if not please let me know and I'll delete the message!

 

In the (very) long term, my plan is to make available a card deck for casting I Ching hexagrams.

Even if some of you may not be familiar with the I Ching, I'd like to have some feedback from you on this idea of mine.

I've already posted in the I Ching section of this forum why I'm not comfortable using the currently available decks.

My deck will contain cards that, combined, will generate hexagrams with the same probabilities of one of the traditional methods (yarrow stalks or coins).

More than a deck it will be a collection of "sub-decks": some cards will be used to generate the hexagrams line by line, others will allow generating a trigram all at once.

There will be cards to be used in groups of two, three, eight, ... The idea is to offer a variety of card based methods so that everyone can choose their preferred one.

Sounds complicated but I hope it will not the case; I'm putting all the effort to make each method easy to use.

I tried many different design for the cards. These are just some of the latest examples:

 

I use some oriental-inspired background in the first two cases, then I switched to graphics using only lines and ideograms.

Do you think that using graphic elements instead of images would make the deck less appealing?

 

All the cards I printed so far are poker sized or business card sized. I just tried to create something tarot sized (this is just one side of the card):

The circle in the middle are an index to retrieve the hexagram number from its lines. Again, it seems complicated but it's rather simple once one knows how to use it.

I could replace it with a simpler table (maybe would be more clear but graphically less interesting).

Or I could get rid of the index altogether and replace it with some image.

Another option is to find decorative elements that would fit with this design and blend them.

 

Also I'm not sure if the deck should have some form of "visual unity" or I should differentiate so that each group of cards that can be used together is clearly identifiable.

 

I'm also struggling with the best way to make the deck available. For myself I use a Print on Demand service but the shipment costs are very high.

I could make the file available to allow anyone to print it for themselves, but I fear the work would be too much for some.

 

As you may have noticed I have a lot of doubts and no one to talk to to clarify them.

 

I will really appreciate any comment you may have.

 

Thanks.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by remod

[katrinka]

I like the concept. And this is just me, but I prefer the softness of the cards in the first image.

Have you looked into PrinterStudio?

Keep us posted, please!

[DanielJUK]

you posted about your deck plans perfectly @remod on topic and in the right area

 

Seconding @katrinka's post. It sounds like a great idea and a unique concept which is different to the other I Ching decks.

The graphic design or picture is tricky, I just can't decide on it. Comparing to other (but different) I Ching decks, I own the TAO Oracle and the artwork is attractive on each (huge) card. But the I Ching part of it has been made so complicated and the book is almost as big as the bible to follow the instructions and associations of each card. I feel the artwork is so people can use it as a straight oracle and ignore the I Ching part. I don't own the Holitzka but the artwork is so simple with the brushstroke characters. I like the clean cards or just characters here but also I like the design elements of them, they give you something visually to enjoy. I just don't know but I think if you have a design style throughout, the hexagrams have to be clear and not hidden as an associated symbol in a corner.

 

I think most I Ching decks work by pulling two cards (or more) and you observe the changes in lines between them but the reality is really you are looking at different trigrams, so generating line by line would be a big difference and unique here.

 

If you need to sell decks or have some money to produce the deck before printing on demand, you could crowdfund! There are so many kickstarter and indiegogo decks being produced these days.

 

Please do keep us updated in this thread, you are welcome to post new cards or ideas as you go and share your creation journey with us 🙂

[remod]

Thanks for the encouragement 🙂

Here's an example of the doubts I have.
 

 

The circles in the cards are an index to identify the hexagam number.

I'm pretty happy I devised it instead of using the traditional table with upper/lower trigrams.

I believe it's more pleasent to the eye and reminding of the traditional theory of the universe born as a split of yin/yang forces.

However, they are also "visually invasive" and I fear people will not use it, preferring the usual table (excluding the very few that know hexagrams by heart).

So, should I get rid of the index functionality of the card and give more prominence to an image? Or should I just leave the image behind as a "filler"?

 What would you suggest (both from an aesthetic point of view and a functional point of view)?

 

Please do not hesitate to give some negative comment if you feel inclined to do so, I'm looking for real feedback here.

Thanks.

Edited June 15, 2021 by remod

[remod]

Here I am again to seek for feedback,

This is the first draft for the "eight cards section" of the deck (the card in the previous post was in the "seven cards section").

This section can be used for meditation (pondering on the meaning of the trigrams) or, with the help of the back of the cards, can be used to generate a hexagram one trigram at the time with the same probabilities of the yarrow stalks method.

For those who read my previous posts, I still believe that having selected images may introduce a bias in the interpretation, but I think that for trigrams the risk is very minimimal as their (set of) meaning is well known.

I'm not sure if I'll create the "three card sections" first or will refine these cards. We'll see...

 

This is an example of the back of the cards.

All images are from Japanese artists of late 1800's, early 1900's. 

I wish I was able to draw 🙂

 

This is an example of how they are used. You shuffle the eight cards, place the first four face up and the fifth across them with the back side up:

 

 

The trigram in the middle of the card on the top is the one obtained as response (Kun, the Earth, in the example).

Then look for the first nmber that is greater or equal than 4758 (the number formed by the first four cards) to determine the related trigram.

In the example  is Kan, the Water, since 5734 is the smallest number that is equal or greater than 4758.

It is as you had used the yarrow stalks three times and got 8,6, and 8.

Repeat to get the upper trigram of the hexagram.

I can assure you that one get used very quickly to this method.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by remod

[remod]

And here am I. Again!

 

This time I asked an artist to draw two illustrations for me and here is the result:

 

 

I'm extremely pleased of the results. She really got what I had in mind. You can see more of her work at her instagram account.

 

This is how you use them;

 

 

And here his how the deck appears after you casted the entire hexagram (I kept the circular index, but that is subject to change):

 

As always, any comment and feedback is very appreciated.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by remod

[remod]

 I'm pretty sure this whole deck idea as a flaw, but I can't quite tell which one it is ....

Edited July 1, 2021 by remod

[katrinka]

It looks genius to me.
Maybe someone more mathematically inclined could figure out the odds of getting one thing or another and find some issue. I can't.
It looks good.

[remod]

Thanks katrinka!

 

The math behind the dragon/tiger cards is very simple, the math behind the eight cards is more complicated and boring.

If there's any math-oriented mind that would like to help me ensuring my math is correct, I will be very happy! I would love to have some external verification!

 

Actually, I was more thinking along the line of this deck being too unfamiliar to both I Ching practitioners and Tarot practitioners and, as such, not very interesting for any of them.
I like to think that people here are too nice to make negative comments (which I would welcome anyway), but reality may well be that these cards are just plainly uninteresting.

 

I found the dragon/tiger cards (and their previous incarnation I showed in the very first post of this thread) very handy with their ability to keep track of the outcome without having to write it down with pen and paper.

But I guess one has to try to see if that's really useful or not for them.

I heard that some people do Tarot+I Ching consultation at the same time, so I thought the eight cards could be interesting for them. But maybe they have their own ways ...

 

Anyway, it's not a big deal since I do not have any plan to sell them. I'm ok with just having the people know that these options exist and that they may ask me for any details (or look at my website) if they feel so inclined 🙂

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by remod

[remod]

And here it is: the last section of the deck: three cards.

 

 

 

 

Here's the back (I have to work a little bit more on this, it's too dark):

 

 

To cast a line, you shuffle and rotate (indpendently) the three cards and then place them as shown below.

If the two ideograms in red are the same as the two ideograms in black, you got that line, if they are different, you got the other line.

In the example below, you would have got 9 (a moving yang line) because the ideograms are different.

 

You don't need to know the meaning of the ideograms but if you're courious I'll tell you: they are (not considering the name of hexagram 1) the first four word of the I Ching: Yuan heng li zhen, (元 亨 利 貞)

They appear (in a form or another) in fifty of the 64 hexagrams and are considered crucial for a correct understanding of the text.

Here they are just used as graphical elements, with no other meaning.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by remod

[remod]

... And with the previous post the description of this I Ching deck is complete.

Let me summarize.

 

It's a tarot sized deck with three groups of cards:

1. Dragon/tiger. Seven double sided cards (with a dragon on one side and a tiger on the other side) that allow you to cast hexagrams one line at the time and keep track of the outcome without using pen and paper.
2. Trigrams cards. Eight double sided cards, one for each trigrams, that allow you to cast an entire trigram together with its moving lines.
3. Digrams cards. Three single sided cards that allow you to cast hexagams one line at the time.

 

Casting the hexagram with these cards follows the same probabilities of the yarrow stalks method.

 

I will surely tweak the cards here and there but nothing major (for example, I decided that the first two cards of the three cards method should stack vertically and not horizontally, but I won't post the new version as the changes are minimal).

 

I may print the deck for myself but I do not plan to sell it. I just wanted everyone to know that if they want to use cards for casting I Ching hexagrams, there are alternatives to the usual 64 cards deck.

 

If you are interested in printing one for yourself, get in touch with me here or through the email published on my site (www.castingiching.com) and I'll be happy to send you the high res files.

 

I hope you have found it somewhat interesting and I welcome any question or feedback you may have.

 

Remo

Edited July 16, 2021 by remod

[remod]

Very short update. A new set of 4 cards will be added to the deck:

 

  4. Lines and dots.  Four identical cards to mix, rotate and then spread on the table as shown in the picture below. The line at the center of the last card laid out is the outcome. If the number of black dots in the top left is the same as the number of red dots on the card, it's a moving line.

 

 

I might work on the graphics in the future (as I did with the other cards) but I'm not sure ...

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by remod

[remod]

Just wanted to share this card (front/back) built around two Fu talismans:

For how little I know about Taoist talismans, here is my take on them.
The one on the left is eavily yin oriented, the other is heavily yang oriented (you can tell from the first two characters within the bell).
The seal for "wisdom" is surrounded by the representation of the eight trigrams but they are all messed up with respect to the traditional placement.
The 4 animals are paired Tiger/Phoenix and Dragon/Tortoise, I don't know if it's the correct pairing or not.
So, these two talismans should be for the invocation of the wisdom needed to properly sort out the situation.
In the context of these cards it could be the meaning of the hexagram that will come out from using these cards.
The red seals are the very common "double happiness" (the square one) and "well being/health" (the round one).

Hope you like them.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by remod

[katrinka]

I'm always seeing the Dragon and Phoenix together with Double Happiness on tea sets, etc. They're said to be lucky for happy marriage.
The four creatures are directional guardians. I've not seen the Tiger and Tortoise paired, but that doesn't mean nobody does it. I can't read Chinese so I'm surely missing a lot.
To add to the confusion, there's a mythical Dragon Tortoise used in feng shui. It has a purpose similar to that of the Money Frog.

It's a lovely deck and as much as I'd like to say "Hurry up, I want one!" I'd advise taking your time and double checking everything to avoid mistakes.

[remod]

2 hours ago, katrinka said:

It's a lovely deck and as much as I'd like to say "Hurry up, I want one!" I'd advise taking your time and double checking everything to avoid mistakes.

Thanks for your words Katrinka.
BTW, the "wrong" pairing and the "wrong" disposition of trigrams in the talisman should symbolize the confusion/misleading perception. At least this is what I understood 🙂

At this stage, if I ever will put all this together, my plan is to find a POD that also has a shop (like MPC) and make them available at just the printing cost.
I'm not planning to make any money on this 🙂
 

Edited January 10, 2022 by remod

[remod]

I'm waiting for permission from the artist to use the magic circle he draw and posted on Deviant Art.
If permission never come I'll have to delete the image and find something else.
Nevertheless I want to show it to you. It's a variation on the idea of using four cards. I really like the look of it!

These are the front and the back of the card, you need 3 or 4 of them together to cast a line (depending on if you want to mimic the three coins or the yarrow stalks odds).

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by remod

[remod]

Ok, I know I'm probably exagerating but I had no method good method that used 5 cards, so I had to make one.
Here are the five cards, you pick three of them to cast a line. But explanantions are boring, here are the face of the 5 cards:

 

One day I'll decide to print all those cards ... I think 🙂
 

[remod]

Ops, in the card for Water, the 6 should be an 8 :(.  Sorry about that ...

[remod]

Just in case anyone is wondering how to use these cards. Here are two examples.
You shuffle the cards and lay down three cards as shown below:
Then you look at the red symbol on the card (in both examples 金 Metal) and follow the lines according to the elements on the other cards.
In the example on the left, the next card is 木 (Wood), which leads us directly on a broken unchangin line (8).
In the example on the right the next card is 水 (Water) which requires looking at the third card which is 火 (Fire), which leads to a moving broken line (6).

It's pretty simple, once you get used to it.

[remod]

You can imagine the diagrams on the cards as a subset of the possible connections among the five elements. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me on the five elements theory would be able to explain all the relationship among the elements that lead to those autcome (that, by the way, are almost equivalent to using the yarrow stalks method).
I must confess it is way above my abilities.

Edited January 17, 2022 by remod

[remod]

Following similar principles, here's the set of 3 cards that cast I Ching hexagrams line with the same odd of yarrow stalks (or 16 marbles):

 

You shuflle and (independently) rotate each card, then you spread them as shown below to cast a line.
On the left, the outcome is a non-changing broken line (fire->water->earth). On the right the result is a non-changing solid line (water->earth->fire).

 

 

I hope you like them.

 

[remod]

I found a new drawing tool and decided to go for a change of style.
Here are 8 new I ching cards (one for each trigram) with a much different "vibe" than the previous ones (click to enlarge)

 

For those unfamiliar with the I Ching the cards are:
1 - The Earth

2 - The Thunder

3 - The Water (The Abysmal)

4 - The Lake

5 - The Mountain

6 - The Fire

7 - The Wind

8 - The Heaven

 

The back of each card is still work in progress (I find the back to be much more difficult than the front). I'll post them eventually (if people are interested).

 

Hope you like them

Edited January 27, 2022 by remod

[Rupicapra]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:11 PM, remod said:

I found a new drawing tool and decided to go for a change of style.

Oooh I only just saw those. Very cool! I think the art works great here 👍

[remod]

Well, this is done with wombo-dream as well. I spent quite some time to have them made as I intended and I'm quite satisfied of the outcome.
The back is still to be worked on.

Just to be clear, I've no plan to sell or make money from the cards in this thread (or any other thread). They are here just to make the world aware that they exist.
Should anyone be interested I can provide the hires files ready to be printed.

[remod]

And after waiting little bit less than a month, the printed cards knocked to my door.

 

 

I've used Game Crafter, this time. They are a little bit thinner than the other cards I printed on MPC but I still like them. The print is crisp and they came out as I expected them.
Should anyone want to print them, I've made the hires available here: https://github.com/rdentato/castingiching/releases/download/v1.0.0/7-I-Ching-Cards-FU.zip
They are licensed under the terms of CC-BY-SA 4.0, meaning that you can do whatever you like with them (including selling them) as long some credit is given.

The file names in the archive are ready for GameCrafter but they should work on any platform able to print tarots cards.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by remod