How far to take it with the Mice

[vulprix]

So... Mice. They nibble and gnaw at any card. My question is, how do you know what all the mice are destroying?

 

For example, I drew a three-card line today for a question, “Should I resurrect paying for a certain service?” I drew

 

Coffin - Mice - Bouquet

 

The Coffin (the dead, dormant service I am no longer paying for) is modified by the Mice. So perhaps it should be resurrected, which would be the Bouquet?

 

OR! Perhaps the service itself is not a good idea to pay for, and the Mice are chewing away at the Coffin and also the Bouquet, because it is the middle card (adjacent to both).

 

I struggle with knowing how to apply directionality. Thank you for your assistance if you can give your perspective! 🙂 

[Sadewa]

 I view Mice as a card that steals from the previous card and contaminates the following one. 

So if I were to interpret these cards, my answer would be no, because this service seems to bring unnecessary expenses (coffin+ Mice）that wouldn't be pleasant(Mice+bouquet).

 

However, I do vaguely recall Iris Treppner mentioning how certain negative cards sort of cancel each other out. But not all authors seem to agree on that.

[vulprix]

Thank you, Peppermint Butler—I mean @Sadewa! 😄 This makes sense to me. (I would probably keep the lateral effect of the Mice in a 9 card box spread unless experienced readers think it should affect vertically, too.)

 

I have been putting Treppner’s course as my primary Lenormand resource, actually, so I am glad you reference that. I do like Treppner’s explanations of the Mice and other negative cards, but it can be difficult to suss out how far to take some of those effects (particularly with the Mice which can have that ‘cancelling out’ effect, even on the Mountain).

[joy]

I am with @Sadewa, Andy B says in his book 36 cards: https://www.amazon.com/Lenormand-Thirty-Six-Cards-Introduction/dp/1500582484?pldnSite=1

 

"In a reading you should note the cards to either side of the Mice, for they both bring a loss. The card to the left of the Mice is what is set to be soiled or destroyed, and the card to the right of the Mice is what that will cause you to lose or lose out on."

 

[vulprix]

1 hour ago, joy said:

I am with @Sadewa, Andy B says in his book 36 cards: https://www.amazon.com/Lenormand-Thirty-Six-Cards-Introduction/dp/1500582484?pldnSite=1

 

"In a reading you should note the cards to either side of the Mice, for they both bring a loss. The card to the left of the Mice is what is set to be soiled or destroyed, and the card to the right of the Mice is what that will cause you to lose or lose out on."

 

I love how direct this quote is! I may need to get that book at some point! Thank you, joy.

[joy]

2 hours ago, vulprix said:

I love how direct this quote is! I may need to get that book at some point! Thank you, joy.

That book is fabulous, I can only recommend it!

[Sadewa]

19 hours ago, vulprix said:

Thank you, Peppermint Butler

I bet Peppermint Butler himself reads cards in secret! 😄

19 hours ago, vulprix said:

I have been putting Treppner’s course as my primary Lenormand resource, actually, so I am glad you reference that. I do like Treppner’s explanations of the Mice and other negative cards, but it can be difficult to suss out how far to take some of those effects (particularly with the Mice which can have that ‘cancelling out’ effect, even on the Mountain).

Treppner's course is good. Many refer to it as a splendid source. However, I must admit I can't really help with your confusion regarding negative cards cancelling each other out. When I came across her free materials, I was already doing lenormand for a while, and the idea that negative plus negative becomes positive sort of perplexed me as well, for I personally would expect strong positive cards to counter the negative shadows of inauspicious cards. But, that doesn't mean that Treppner's method has a problem. I'm just saying that that particular detail in her model of reading doesn't fit into my practice well. I believe there are other readers with more experience who followed her on this site who can solve this mystery for both of us😉

[katrinka]

Treppner is a good foundation.
The course doesn't really give you anything as far as card order goes, it's more like an introduction. And I do agree that two negatives don't make a positive! Even if Mice "take" the Coffin, it's a difficult process.

You laid three cards. Two of them are nasty. (Does the service involve a box of some kind - maybe a cable box, router or similar?) Bouquet is nice, but the Mice have spoiled it. It loses importance. I don't think you'd get enough enjoyment out of the service for it to be worth paying for.

[Guest]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:59 AM, vulprix said:

For example, I drew a three-card line today for a question, “Should I resurrect paying for a certain service?” I drew

 

Coffin - Mice - Bouquet

No, as it offers you nothing but scraps. Leave it be. 
 

Here the Mice gnaw a cadaver.  So you won’t get a good return. 

 

The Flowers fall after the Mice and signify what you lose out in as a result. That is: a good arrangement or deal. Think of a spoiled bouquet — dead or wilted. 
 

The Flowers card, traditionally, is an floral arrangement or nosegay.  The language of flowers allowed people to send coded messages, seal pacts or show thanks.

 

I cannot comment on Iris Treppner. The idea that the Mice can neutralise negative cards never made sense to me but others disagree.  I ask myself: can a mouse eat a Scythe, Clouds or Mountain? No. 
 

There are, traditionally, trump cards.  The Serpent card can eat the Mice - snakes do, and people use poison to kill rodent (another Serpent meaning). Just as the Stork can eat the Serpent.  
 

But these are based on the oldest oracle: nature. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Guest
Typo

[vulprix]

The subscription would involve boxes, @katrinka 🙂 I appreciate the qualifying of Treppner’s course a bit, because as far as reading the cards goes (especially in larger spreads), I feel left a bit high and dry. Great examples provided, just not enough detail for me to feel like it is adding anything to how I can interpret combinations or a line.

 

I bought the Rana George Lennie recently because I loved the look of it and it has playing card inserts, and her little guidebook for that deck has helped me read cards in a line much better! It has opened my eyes to the grammar/language of Lenormand a bit more.

@timtoldrum, wonderful interpretation and explanation! 👏  the logic of your style provides nice limits for card interactions.

 

Treppner’s course’s card meanings resonated with me and helped me suss out how I feel about the different card assignments for work, sex, etc., so for a good while at least, I will explore how those keywords play with each other in readings. But nothing is better than the conversation had here to help me learn 😁 thank you.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vulprix said:

The subscription would involve boxes, @katrinka 🙂 I appreciate the qualifying of Treppner’s course a bit, because as far as reading the cards goes (especially in larger spreads), I feel left a bit high and dry. Great examples provided, just not enough detail for me to feel like it is adding anything to how I can interpret combinations or a line.

 

I bought the Rana George Lennie recently because I loved the look of it and it has playing card inserts, and her little guidebook for that deck has helped me read cards in a line much better! It has opened my eyes to the grammar/language of Lenormand a bit more.

@timtoldrum, wonderful interpretation and explanation! 👏  the logic of your style provides nice limits for card interactions.

 

Treppner’s course’s card meanings resonated with me and helped me suss out how I feel about the different card assignments for work, sex, etc., so for a good while at least, I will explore how those keywords play with each other in readings. But nothing is better than the conversation had here to help me learn 😁 thank you.

 

Iris is rightfully well-respected. I am sure that she will stand you in good stead and I wasn’t trying to sway, just explain why certain cards carry their essential meaning (e.g. Flowers as a gift, offer, decoration or agreement). 
 

 

[vulprix]

1 hour ago, timtoldrum said:

Iris is rightfully well-respected. I am sure that she will stand you in good stead and I wasn’t trying to sway, just explain why certain cards carry their essential meaning (e.g. Flowers as a gift, offer, decoration or agreement). 
 

 

No worries, still much respect for Iris and her course which has grounded me, and much respect for all here who are helping me to refine my reading skills 🙂 thank you, tim!