Superlunaris lenormand

[HOLMES]

https://superlunaris.com/superlunormand

 

The email i got says next month in kickstarter. 

There are more and more photographic i think is the term decks coming out.

 

I like this deck . 

1.clear images

2. Simple playing card inserts

 

The heart being hands/arms show the modern touch. 

 

[katrinka]

That's not a scythe.

https://www.evergreenseeds.com/scythe-vs-sickle/

 

[HOLMES]

4 hours ago, katrinka said:

That's not a scythe.

https://www.evergreenseeds.com/scythe-vs-sickle/

 

 

They should change it so it says sickle ?

I guess i was ok with for i saw sickle on other lenormand i think.

 

I emailed to ask if it will be changed to scythe or renamed to sickle.

 

I got an email back, they will be updating the scythe card soon.

Edited August 10, 2021 by HOLMES

[katrinka]

That's the tip of the iceberg, though. The Fox has no clear direction, a lot of people use those. Same with the Book. And it doesn't have insets, it has those glyph things - why not have actual insets and do away with the titles? We know what a House, Key, etc. look like, no need for labels. And what kind of Fish are those? Why the extreme close-up of the Snake? The body is what brings in meanings like pipes, rivers, and twisty roads. I could go on...

It's a big 'nope' from me. And I have a couple of purposely wonky decks I use sometimes, but they're interesting and the creators knew what they were doing. This one looks like the creator doesn't know Lenormand at all, and they think this is OK. It isn't. Sorry.
 

[gregory]

That doesn't even look OK to me.

 

And yes - Lenormand has a scythe, not a sickle; they need to change the IMAGE, not the title. Or you could have o octopus labelled fish, a kayak labelled ship, and so on.

[katrinka]

39 minutes ago, gregory said:

That doesn't even look OK to me.

 

And yes - Lenormand has a scythe, not a sickle; they need to change the IMAGE, not the title. Or you could have o octopus labelled fish, a kayak labelled ship, and so on.

Send them this. It would make a great Dog card:

[Guest]

22 hours ago, HOLMES said:

1.clear images

Insofar as you can tell its the Fishes or the Moon cards it is clear. But look at the Cavalier card — he doesn’t look particularly dapper (well dressed) or on the road even (soon to arrive). 
 

There is a pen on the Letter card. It doesn’t infer a message received so much as being sent.  The Bear, Fox and Serpent are awful imho. Looking how nice some of the others are — it doesn’t make sense. 

 

It is clear but without conceptual clarity.

 

22 hours ago, HOLMES said:

Simple playing card inserts

But they put titles (and it’s Stars not Star) and numbers on the cards but no playing cards?

 

The playing cards were there from the start. They are not contradictory.  If you’re dabbler you won’t miss them. But a serious student loses much in foregoing their presence.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Guest

[HOLMES]

Hm. 

I like a diversity. 

For me long as there is a playing card somewhere like in the corner. I consider it an insert.  

I personally don't need to see a playing card but for me i haven't got anything from 4 cups on a card in mareilles and non illustrated pips. 

So seeing the imagery more clearer is good. 

For me it is'nt about seriousness but flow. I do pass on lenormand without an association of playing card .

 

I like the rider here , sure it is sunset, hes coming back from a long day of doing rider stuff.

 

But then as you hint at mx, with the letter

The meaning would change in reading for  the rider isnt traveling but most likely coming back. Or hes just arriving to stay the night.

That is if the person was really new to the lenormand and not looking at the real meanings of the lenormand.

 

I don't mind a differnt lenormand take but that because i look at these new tarots, after, from a different perspective., another new one with reversals on it for exsmple.

But i get you , i dislike the first artistic lo scarebo tarots as it seems to me they hardly knew anything about the tarot., 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, mxlavender said:

Insofar as you can tell its the Fishes or the Moon cards it is clear. But look at the Cavalier card — he doesn’t look particularly dapper (well dressed) or on the road even (soon to arrive). 
 

There is a pen on the Letter card. It doesn’t infer a message received so much as being sent.  The Bear, Fox and Serpent are awful imho. Looking how nice some of the others are — it doesn’t make sense. 

 

It is clear but without conceptual clarity.

 

But they put titles (and it’s Stars not Star) and numbers on the cards but no playing cards?

 

The playing cards were there from the start. They are not contradictory.  If you’re dabbler you won’t miss them. But a serious student loses much in foregoing their presence.

 

This. All of it.
 

6 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Hm. 

I like a diversity. 

For me long as there is a playing card somewhere like in the corner. I consider it an insert.  

 

They forego the insets like they don't want to interfere with the images, but then they label the cards.
I could ask my neighbor's three year old what the cards are, and he could identify them: that's the Moon, that's a Dog, etc. There is no need for titles. Labeling the images insults everyones' intelligence.

 

6 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I like the rider here , sure it is sunset, hes coming back from a long day of doing rider stuff.

 

It looks to me like someone exercising their horse lakeside. No purpose other than recreation and exercise.
 

6 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

But then as you hint at mx, with the letter

The meaning would change in reading for  the rider isnt traveling but most likely coming back. Or hes just arriving to stay the night.

That is if the person was really new to the lenormand and not looking at the real meanings of the lenormand.

 

People like to ride horses by the water. We have a dedicated stretch of beach on South Padre where people rent horses and do that. Fun, but it doesn't fit the Rider. You ride down to the shore, you ride a certain distance, you turn around and ride back. It's just for fun.
 

 

If the Lenormand Rider was actually taking a route along a lake or ocean to deliver his news, he'd most likely be riding over picnicers, sunbathers, drunks, campers, small children, people fishing or crabbing...everybody loves hanging out by the water, and they always have. It would be a slow route. The image on that card looks like one of the horsey set riding on private lakeside property.
 

6 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I don't mind a differnt lenormand take but that because i look at these new tarots, after, from a different perspective., another new one with reversals on it for exsmple.

But i get you , i dislike the first artistic lo scarebo tarots as it seems to me they hardly knew anything about the tarot., 

 

Yeah. You can't grab just any image of someone on a horse and call it the Rider. At least not if you're trying to make a somewhat correct Lenormand.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

Hm. I like a diversity. 

So do I, Holmes. It isn’t an issue of uniformity, but conceptual integrity. 
 

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

For me long as there is a playing card somewhere like in the corner. I consider it an insert. 

Fair enough. But how do you note if the K♦️ regards the Lady? If she wants to know if he rates her enough to invest his capital the King’s gaze can indicate if he will even consider her proposal. You cannot. It isn’t an insert. It is a pictograms.

 

Ciro used these with his Gilded Reverie. But Ciro made them part of the artwork with scrolls, &c. These just look stuck on. 
 

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

I like the rider here , sure it is sunset, hes coming back from a long day of doing rider stuff.

 

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

But then as you hint at mx, with the letter

The meaning would change in reading for  the rider isnt traveling but most likely coming back. Or hes just arriving to stay the night.

That is if the person was really new to the lenormand and not looking at the real meanings of the lenormand.

 

Can I enquire what consider rider stuff?
 

The Cavalier is traditionally shown riding from a castle either in tailcoat or livery. He is a herald out on the road. He isn’t dressed for overnight travel so we know it is a short sojourn. It is from this representation that we get a) a man b) news or visitors c) well dressed d) fast.

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

I don't mind a differnt lenormand take but that because i look at these new tarots, after, from a different perspective., another new one with reversals on it for exsmple.

But i get you , i dislike the first artistic lo scarebo tarots as it seems to me they hardly knew anything about the tarot., 

 

Well Holmes I’m not quite a closed minded as my cards should demonstrate. But I believe a Lenormand should be a Lenormand. You can be creative — look at Ryan Edward or Ciro. 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Guest

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Labeling the images insults everyones' intelligence.

This. I’ve heard so often how the playing cards or verses distract. But then they number and title cards or but a copyright notice on the image

 

57 minutes ago, katrinka said:

It looks to me like someone exercising their horse lakeside. No purpose other than recreation and exercise.

It changes the meaning. If I read that card I would never say dapper, et cetera.
 

It’s like the Lilies. If you’ve got a tiger lily or stargazer it’s not going to be someone with blonde or fair hair.

[HOLMES]

Rider

 

Just a man out for a leisurely stroll.

Yet i am of the belief the first image we have a card is the first impression. 

So mine was the easy lenormand dondorf variation. 

So in my mind just a person going for a ride to perhaps visit. 

The important of messenger or herald doesn't compute yet. 

I would need a more medieval perhaps a bugle in the hand. 

 

On a side note. 

I love the ancestral tarot imagery 

But i can't read with it. 

I think i would prefer if the artist made 4 decks one for each suit.

[katrinka]

29 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Rider

 

Just a man out for a leisurely stroll.

Yet i am of the belief the first image we have a card is the first impression. 

So mine was the easy lenormand dondorf variation. 

So in my mind just a person going for a ride to perhaps visit. 

The important of messenger or herald doesn't compute yet. 

I would need a more medieval perhaps a bugle in the hand.

 

Why? Spreading news didn't stop after the medieval period. And we don't carry bugles when we go to the neighbors to alert them about something.

Let's have a look at the Dondorf Rider:

 

He's moving along at a fast trot, not a leisurely walk. If you've got some distance to cover, you don't want to run your horse the whole way unless there's a fire or similar emergency. A trot is sufficient and will cover the distance fairly quickly.

He's dressed up, look at his top hat. He's not just going for a ride, he's going to see someone in a formal capacity. If he was just riding around his own property, he'd wear something more comfortable, maybe old clothes he didn't mind getting dirty. But he's going to see someone, and he considers the reason important enough to go himself rather than sending a hired man. He can certainly afford hired men - it's implied that's his big house on the hill and his acreage surrounding it. And that is not a cheap horse, it looks well bred.

 

So there's a reason he's doing that. And the reason would involve something he had to convey, some important news or information. Otherwise he'd be drinking cognac in his study or shooting claybirds or whatever guys like that did when there was nothing else going on.

It's all there on the card.

Edited August 11, 2021 by katrinka

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, mxlavender said:

This. I’ve heard so often how the playing cards or verses distract. But then they number and title cards or but a copyright notice on the image

Yes.

Early on, I was guilty of saying verses were distracting. But my only verse deck was a Blue Owl with the Kaplan verses. ("Stork on the roof of your abode surely means you'll take to the road!" - NO. It doesn't.) Those were sing-songy, wrong, annoying, and well, distracting. I've since used other decks with verses and they work well. Also decks with handwritten notes reproduced on them. You just need good verses.

Kaplan was good at cataloging decks. Understanding Lenormand, not so much. 😉

 

I still prefer insets, though. A Lenormand without full card insets doesn't feel like a Lenormand. And I loathe titles.

Edited August 11, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

Just a man out for a leisurely stroll.

Yet i am of the belief the first image we have a card is the first impression. 

So mine was the easy lenormand dondorf variation. 

So in my mind just a person going for a ride to perhaps visit. 

The important of messenger or herald doesn't compute yet. 

I would need a more medieval perhaps a bugle in the hand. 

 

I have to be honest Holmes, I am confused by the medieval.  In terms of history: Hechtel published the Das Spiel der Hoffnung during the first decade of the age of revolution. The ancien régime was over. The Holy Roman Empire was in its death throes, and the Napoleonic Wars were on the horizon. The Petit Lenormands start to appear during the subsequent Biedermeier period.  How did news travel?  Even the rising haute bourgeoisie still retained  a use for messengers and callings.

 

The Dondorf was my first, too. Katrinka has given you a perfect breakdown. You can see all the “meanings” (visits, dapper, athletic, fast) there in the image.  Can you see that in the Superlunaris? 
 

One of the reasons I refer to the card as the Cavalier, rather than rider/horseman, is in English it conveys more of the card. The Cavalier is a rider, yes. But he is something more.

 

49 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Yes.

Early on, I was guilty of saying verses were distracting. But my only verse deck was a Blue Owl with the Kaplan verses. ("Stork on the roof of your abode surely means you'll take to the road!" - NO. It doesn't.) Those were sing-songy, wrong, annoying, and well, distracting. I've since used other decks with verses and they work well. Also decks with handwritten notes reproduced on them. You just need good verses.

Kaplan was good at cataloging decks. Understanding Lenormand, not so much. 😉

 

Yes. Very much. The Bluebird was appalling, too. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, HOLMES said:

On a side note. 

I love the ancestral tarot imagery 

But i can't read with it. 

I think i would prefer if the artist made 4 decks one for each suit.

It is beautiful. I purchased it in February 1998 (I can remember the date because I got it the day an album was released). You cannot tell, but the box is falling apart. But I’ve yet to find the right wrap.  The book was brilliant. It is OOP (I believe) but it does help. 
 

For me, it was the first tarot I saw that had non-Europeans. So I enjoy the four suits. These days, I reserve it for past life/karma readings. 

[HOLMES]

I like that idea of using it for past lives. 

 

I wonder if a past life lenormand is in development.

 

 

[katrinka]

Any regular Lenormand can be used for that. Just ask the cards. To theme the deck for past lives would ruin it.

[DanielJUK]

This deck reminds me a lot of a modern oracle rather than traditional cartomancy. It's like making a Lenormand deck out of the Inner Compass Oracle (by Heather Hoeps). The little names of the cards are similar.

[HOLMES]

15 minutes ago, DanielJUK said:

This deck reminds me a lot of a modern oracle rather than traditional cartomancy. It's like making a Lenormand deck out of the Inner Compass Oracle (by Heather Hoeps). The little names of the cards are similar.

 

 

Did you look at the superlunis tarot that is on the main page there?

 

I really like that strength card, high priestress card, but the devil meh,  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

I like that idea of using it for past lives. 

 

I wonder if a past life lenormand is in development.

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Any regular Lenormand can be used for that. Just ask the cards. To theme the deck for past lives would ruin it.

100%.  It is not a theme that translates well.  
 

The Ancestral Path itself has a coherent structure that lends itself to the concept of past life and karma. Personally, I do not believe that the cards themselves (necessarily) reveal past incarnations. Sometimes it is as if the cards are just using the concept to impart information in a manner that we can better understand “at a distance.”

 

For the Lenormand, the Grand Tableau itself lends itself to such readings.
 

[HOLMES]

Little off topic, 

I just figured the top hat was how the lords dressed back in the day. 

Tbe bugle idea was going for a miltary/foxhunt type of rider. 

In today day and age it could be a moped, motorcycle,  or..

 

 

I do love how the ship looks on the superlunis!! 

[katrinka]

30 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I just figured the top hat was how the lords dressed back in the day.

It's formalwear. Men always wore hats outdoors then, but they chose one suitable for the weather and the occasion. Even the nobility and upper classes would have had hats for informal occasions, and something cooler for summer - something in straw or cloth rather than a silk or beaver felt top hat.
 

30 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Tbe bugle idea was going for a miltary/foxhunt type of rider. 

 

Someone waging a military campaign or following the hounds has priorities other than stopping at someone's house to tell them some news. 😉
 

30 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

In today day and age it could be a moped, motorcycle,  or..

 

The Rider can be read as those, as well as a car, truck, bicycle...any kind of vehicle.
But it would be a mistake to use anything but a horse for the image, since the card can also stand in for feet, knees, ligaments, and large domestic animals/livestock.