What is the difference between Gypsy Witch, Gypsy, and the Lenormand cards?

[Guest]

As the title says, what is the difference? Which is the oldest? Would really like the opinion from someone here on the forum.

Thank you!

[katrinka]

OK, I'll try to avoid use of the term "Gypsy" since it's generally considered a slur. So when I say "Bohemian", be mindful I'm referring to the same thing.

 

1903 (scroll down a bit.) They're basically an american Lenormand knockoff with the meanings printed on them. The playing card assignments are nonsensical, and I'm pretty sure the cards were intended to double as a poker deck.
https://www.wopc.co.uk/usa/standard-pcc

 

Lenormand I'm sure you're already very familiar with. They debuted ca. 1799 as Das Spiel der Hoffnung.

 

We have a thread about Bohemian Cards here with lots of information and pictures. They're a broad type rather than a single deck, and the number of cards varies. They're popular in Eastern Europe. I haven't been able to ascertain when the first ones appeared, but I suspect they might even predate Lenormand. We'll never know, since pasteboard tends to become lost to time.

More from wopc:

https://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/divination/austrian-cartomancy-decks

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by katrinka

[reall]

I believe correct term for *Bohemian cards is Aufschlagkarten or Wahrsagekarten translation would be something like *cards for looking into questions aka Oracle & term is different in different languages & that's why G* slur got popular?:)

these specifically were popular in Austro Hungary territories/ Eastern Europe while rest of Europe had sibbila cards that are likely oldest & probably originating from Lotteria or older 40 +40 decks I discovered recently, so likely origin of these *Not Tarot & Not Sibbila decks is game proverbs or popular books?(see biblomancy)

worth mentioning India & China Japan & Middle east have their own playing cards & cartomancy variantes as well!;)

Edited August 28, 2021 by reall

[katrinka]

38 minutes ago, reall said:

I believe correct term for *Bohemian cards is Aufschlagkarten or Wahrsagekarten translation would be something like *cards for looking into questions aka Oracle & term is different in different languages & that's why G* slur got popular?:)

 

But Aufschlagkarten and Wahrsagekarten simply translate to "divining cards". You can find old german Lenormands with these words on the box. It's a catch-all.

If you look at old decks, a LOT of them are named for "gypsies" or "Mlle. Lenormand" even though virtually none of them have anything to do with either. It was a simple marketing ploy. A lie that sold decks.

What people are doing now is using the term "gypsy" to distinguish these cards from Sibilla, etc. And since there is no reason to be using slur words, "Bohemian" is a better term.
 

38 minutes ago, reall said:

these specifically were popular in Austro Hungary territories/ Eastern Europe while rest of Europe had sibbila cards that are likely oldest & probably originating from Lotteria

 

Loteria cards? Those are Mexican.

Edited August 28, 2021 by katrinka

[reall]

yes Aufschlag is  Fortune Telling for all divination cards originally it don't mention Lenormand or anything else, those add one came latter for promo sake!;)

 

yes, Lotteria & 1 other interesting historic deck I think is also Mexican or Spanish? will post if I find link!;)

Edited August 28, 2021 by reall

[katrinka]

While Loteria originated in Italy in the 15th century and was brought to Mexico in the 1700's, there are not enough similarities to establish a link with Italian Sibilla.

[Guest]

I´m sorry if I offended anyone! My bad! Did not think that one through. I will call them Bohemian hereafter. 

Interesting, so all these different decks are variations on the Lenormand. The Kipper cards as well?

[katrinka]

12 minutes ago, Smilla said:

I´m sorry if I offended anyone! My bad! Did not think that one through. I will call them Bohemian hereafter. 

 

Thanks.
A lot of people don't even know the word is considered offensive. It still gets used so much...

 

12 minutes ago, Smilla said:

Interesting, so all these different decks are variations on the Lenormand. The Kipper cards as well?

 

??? No, they aren't.
Not sure how you got that impression. Was it something I said?

[Guest]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood.

[Guest]

So these: https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Fortune-Telling-Cards-Deck/dp/1646710495/ref=rvi_9/137-5247532-6414437?pd_rd_w=yhMFZ&pf_rd_p=c0296674-5a83-4ad6-b035-0702d2b359df&pf_rd_r=T334PH9062JA1H1QZXPX&pd_rd_r=c84919c9-d3e2-4fd7-807a-4eb9dfdf68fe&pd_rd_wg=UgrJl&pd_rd_i=1646710495&psc=1 are the american Lenormand knockoff you mean?

[katrinka]

Yes, that's them.
I have no idea why they're trying to sell you a book with them, though. The meanings are printed right on the cards and there's an instruction sheet that comes with the deck. It's not Lenormand, a good many of the cards are read differently. Save your money.
https://www.amazon.com/Gypsy-Witch-Fortune-Telling-Playing/dp/0880790415/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=gypsy+witch+cards&qid=1630287599&s=books&sr=1-1