The Bear

[Panda]

I know that the Bear can, on some occasions, represent a woman - such as a mother or grandmother. Can the Bear also represent a man? And if so, in what sort of circumstances?

 

 

 

[WizardintheWoods]

The Bear can represent someone in authority or who has control or power over you. Example being your Manager at work. This, as far as I understand it can be male or female so that might help answer your question. 

[Panda]

12 minutes ago, WizardintheWoods said:

The Bear can represent someone in authority or who has control or power over you. Example being your Manager at work. This, as far as I understand it can be male or female so that might help answer your question. 

 

It absolutely answers my question. Thank you so much. 

[HOLMES]

Just to recap panda in case you don't know. 

It is the playing insert i feel is the basis for the female association. 

If you know,disregard. 

Same with the snake. 

 

But in truth well perhaps just my opinion the power of the card itself over rules the inserts.. 

So the snake could be a male. Eh ?

[katrinka]

20 hours ago, Panda said:

I know that the Bear can, on some occasions, represent a woman - such as a mother or grandmother. Can the Bear also represent a man? And if so, in what sort of circumstances?

The Bear is often a man, yes. It's a physical descriptor: thickset, hairy body, sometimes bald (bears often have shaggy bodies and smooth-coated heads.) The type that literally gets called "Bears". 😁

The Bear is also possessive and jealous. So I've seen it show up for that type of man, even if he doesn't have the physical characteristics.

Malkiel calls this card "Boring old Bear." 🤣

[katrinka]

14 hours ago, HOLMES said:

Just to recap panda in case you don't know. 

It is the playing insert i feel is the basis for the female association. 

 

I don't see the ten of clubs as particularly female.
 

14 hours ago, HOLMES said:

If you know,disregard. 

Same with the snake. 

 

But in truth well perhaps just my opinion the power of the card itself over rules the inserts.. 

 

Actually the card is an expression of the insert. It's just that the deck follows old germanic cartomancy, not the system you're used to.
 

14 hours ago, HOLMES said:

So the snake could be a male. Eh ?

No. I've never known any seasoned reader to do that.
 

[HOLMES]

I think seasoned would be more well studied as most intros to the english studies unless they got materials with playing card inserts explained have no basis for them. 

Example, suppose one turns rana george only as their bible for 5 years reading which has no real playing card insert in it. They may or may not of course.

Course 5 years exp may make them seasoned. But not studied.

 

I get what you are saying a well studied experienced reader may not jump to that conclusion.

Hmm but suppose one feeling points to it 

Then again perhaps the example comes to mind of a specific season. 

Tell me about my date. 3 card throw

Tower or stork ( something that doesn't point towards danger) 

then snake.. 

And he has no ex, no stalker,  they don't run into a crazy at work, there be no danger like muggings.

To me the cards may suggest the man is a cold hearted snake..

But is he an outlaw like ladies love outlaws song by waylon jennings or a real snake of a person.

 

To the original subject of bear

I imagine the same.. 

What kind of meeting it will be

Sun, clover bear. 

One could if staying true to insert say oh the contact could be femine

Which you discounted already. 

Not all bears are like grizzly adams bears. Some are just nasty grouches 

Look at the grizzly man who was killed by grizzlies as he got too relaxed,  he was even warned about a grouchy bear i think.

Course in a bigger spread there be warning cards to correlate with a grouchy or mean bear. 

The idea of terrority and respect of a bears ways to me is more specific then the snake. 

 

I am of course looking at possibility of bending not breaking the rules,  but in saying bears are not 100 percent female and snakes ate not 100 percent female.

in retrospect that can lead to more second guessing though at the beginning stage so i can see how staying fast to the traditional associations is a nice safety net for learning.

 

  

[Panda]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:04 AM, katrinka said:

The Bear is often a man, yes. It's a physical descriptor: thickset, hairy body, sometimes bald (bears often have shaggy bodies and smooth-coated heads.) The type that literally gets called "Bears". 😁

The Bear is also possessive and jealous. So I've seen it show up for that type of man, even if he doesn't have the physical characteristics.

Malkiel calls this card "Boring old Bear." 🤣

Great, thanks Katrinka, that's brilliant.

 

The reason I asked, was I did a practice 3 card reading for a 3 year old child who went missing. I asked "what caused him to disappear?" He disappeared on a large, remote property. The cards I drew were Ship + Bear + Fish. I wondered if he was taken somewhere by Bear. I wondered if Bear only represented his mother or grandmother, or whether it could point to a man who overpowered him. 

 

The child was found yesterday sitting in a creek, drinking water. He was found 500 metres from the house in an area that was previously searched by 100's of rescue personnel and police, as well as sniffer dogs and thermal helicopter imaging. The police seized a white ute that was seen near the property in the timeframe that the child disappeared. A CCVT camera on the property had been disabled. Footage for the time period the child disappeared was missing. As the child wasn't found for 4 days, and was in good health, (temps getting down to between 2 and 10 celsius overnight), the police are investigating further as they believe he may have been taken and held somewhere before being left in the creek. There was a shack found nearby which had evidence of someone sleeping/staying in it. Apparently the father has links to a bikie gang. 

 

Not sure about Fish, as although he was found sitting in a creek, Fish doesn't make sense regarding context to the question, "what caused him to disappear?", it fits coincidentally with him being found in the creek. I wondered if it had something to do with money being owed or something along those lines, in connection with a bikie gang.  

[Panda]

On 9/5/2021 at 3:29 PM, HOLMES said:

Just to recap panda in case you don't know. 

It is the playing insert i feel is the basis for the female association. 

If you know,disregard. 

Same with the snake. 

 

But in truth well perhaps just my opinion the power of the card itself over rules the inserts.. 

So the snake could be a male. Eh ?

I don't really understand your post, sorry. I didn't think the insert was relevant to describe a female for the Bear. What do you mean "so the snake could be a male?" 

[HOLMES]

28 minutes ago, Panda said:

I don't really understand your post, sorry. I didn't think the insert was relevant to describe a female for the Bear. What do you mean "so the snake could be a male?" 

 

That is one major reason for the other male, female associations for the bear, snake is the playing card court card on them.

So if the bear can be a male, 

Then the snake can be male.. 

And the house can be a female card ( as many modern households are run by the matriach). 

 

But that is just my take,

Do some reading on playing cards inserts on the lenormand. 

Andy b book on them is the most clarifying in english..

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

 

That is one major reason for the other male, female associations for the bear, snake is the playing card court card on them.

 

There is no court on the Bear.

 

The Bear can switch genders because that's part of the reading tradition. Andy says "Normally female but can be male", Treppner says "Normally male but can be female." Most readers seem to use it this way, with one or the other gender being dominant.

There is no such meaning for the Snake. When it's a person, it's a woman. With a male card, it can describe a man as having the qualities of the Snake. But that doesn't make the Snake itself male.

 

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

So if the bear can be a male, 

Then the snake can be male.. 

 

Nope. nope, nope. That's not how this is done.
 

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

And the house can be a female card ( as many modern households are run by the matriach).

 

The House can refer to people you live with. If you live with women, then yes, it's talking about females.
It's not really gendered in itself, though. In spite of the King of Hearts.

 

On 9/5/2021 at 5:00 PM, HOLMES said:

I am of course looking at possibility of bending not breaking the rules,  but in saying bears are not 100 percent female and snakes ate not 100 percent female.

 

The cards do not depict the entire population of bears and snakes. A deck will have one Bear and one Snake.
 

On 9/5/2021 at 5:00 PM, HOLMES said:

in retrospect that can lead to more second guessing though at the beginning stage so i can see how staying fast to the traditional associations is a nice safety net for learning.

 

No, the "traditional net" is not "a safety net for learning." You're talking about it like it's training wheels - it isn't. It's the actual Lenormand method. When you stray away from it, you aren't reading Lenormand. You're using Lenormand cards to do something else, and the results are nowhere near as accurate as they would have been if you'd just used them the right way to begin with.

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, Panda said:

The reason I asked, was I did a practice 3 card reading for a 3 year old child who went missing.

 

OMG.

 

2 hours ago, Panda said:

I asked "what caused him to disappear?" He disappeared on a large, remote property. The cards I drew were Ship + Bear + Fish. I wondered if he was taken somewhere by Bear. I wondered if Bear only represented his mother or grandmother, or whether it could point to a man who overpowered him. 

 

It's hard to say. A three year old can be overpowered by almost any adult. Not just the mother or grandmother, but possibly a woman involved in the crime.
The cards will respond to the meanings you use. Do you normally view the Bear as male? Or female?
 

2 hours ago, Panda said:

The child was found yesterday sitting in a creek, drinking water. He was found 500 metres from the house in an area that was previously searched by 100's of rescue personnel and police, as well as sniffer dogs and thermal helicopter imaging.

 

Somebody brought him back, then. Ship implies distance. They took him somewhere, possibly meaning to hand him over to someone who would take him out of the country (Ship can be foreign) but whatever deal they were trying to make apparently fell through.
 

2 hours ago, Panda said:

The police seized a white ute that was seen near the property in the timeframe that the child disappeared. A CCVT camera on the property had been disabled. Footage for the time period the child disappeared was missing. As the child wasn't found for 4 days, and was in good health, (temps getting down to between 2 and 10 celsius overnight), the police are investigating further as they believe he may have been taken and held somewhere before being left in the creek. There was a shack found nearby which had evidence of someone sleeping/staying in it. Apparently the father has links to a bikie gang. 

 

Not sure about Fish, as although he was found sitting in a creek, Fish doesn't make sense regarding context to the question, "what caused him to disappear?", it fits coincidentally with him being found in the creek. I wondered if it had something to do with money being owed or something along those lines, in connection with a bikie gang.  

 

Money was my first thought. Bear might not even be a person here. I read it as high finance sometimes. Andy uses the Tower for that, but he views the Bear as savings, stocks...stored money, the way a bear stores fat. So either way, it's a lot of money. There's a black market for adopting babies and young kids. There are also sex traffickers. Whatever this was about, it's very, very fortunate that it didn't play out.

 

Has he said anything, do you know?

 

[HOLMES]

Wow,  thankfully he was found alive.

 

Yeah usually think of the fish, as sea due to anchor. 

But there is fish in some creeks that connect to the river i guess. 

 

I think the context of the reading gave it more meaning then just if the bear can be male, for i thought you were talking theory. 

I am interested in the ship more as he wasn't taken that far. Looking at hindsight. 

Intriging is the motiff of water. 

The ship sails on water, the bear in rivers pull the fish out.  And the fish is found in water . And he was found drinking water. 

Amazing

 

But even better is no coffin and hes alive in reality.

[HOLMES]

Yeah your right, no court card on the bear. I was caught in the idea that he could male without checking my books, or even on line for i wanted to say yes it could.  

Must be the context of which the reading was done.  Hopefully it will be revealed if a male,female and have bear qualities. Like gang leader, territorial.

But i think sometimes snakes can be male. 

I do disagree with learning only the one way though,course thats me. 

[gregory]

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

No, the "traditional net" is not "a safety net for learning." You're talking about it like it's training wheels - it isn't. It's the actual Lenormand method. When you stray away from it, you aren't reading Lenormand. You're using Lenormand cards to do something else, and the results are nowhere near as accurate as they would have been if you'd just used them the right way to begin with.

 

 

Yes, to katrinka. The more I study Lenormand, the more I know that JUST BECAUSE OF THIS, it is going to be very hard for me actually to use the cards ! Like Holmes, I find it hard not to overlay my stuff on them. Unlike Holmes, I refuse to do that. Because the whole point of Lenormand is that that doesn't work.

 

27 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Yeah your right, no court card on the bear. I was caught in the idea that he could male without checking my books, or even on line for i wanted to say yes it could.  

Must be the context of which the reading was done.  Hopefully it will be revealed if a male,female and have bear qualities. Like gang leader, territorial.

But i think sometimes snakes can be male. 

I do disagree with learning only the one way though,course thats me. 

 

Sadly, then you will never get the full benefit of Lenormand and how it works. The reading is the reading. The cards in Lenormand are specific. You can't mess with them as you can with tarot if you are a "glorpish" reader like me. I often wonder why people who want to twist Lenormand don't just stick to tarot - or even oracles.

[gregory]

But it's great that the child was found - and katrinka's take says a lot !

[Decan]

Police for example, it's the Bear with Lenormand.

Generally people who are working in these jobs are male, but there are also women (not a majority though).

 

I remember a joke in the past about a take of Malkiel on the Bear card, actually there was a sort of evolution in his assigned meanings from "the boring beer to the great bear" 😜

I didn't know what exactly happened but he said that the Bear is really the Guy to Meet! 😁

Why not a controlling mother or a woman boss (particularly near a card showing a woman); I'm flexible with the Bear's gender, but more often a man for me.

[Panda]

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

OMG.

 

 

It's hard to say. A three year old can be overpowered by almost any adult. Not just the mother or grandmother, but possibly a woman involved in the crime.
The cards will respond to the meanings you use. Do you normally view the Bear as male? Or female?
 

To be honest, I haven't got a preference or view yet. I haven't had the Bear show up in any readings before. I've been trying to go off Andy's book, which views the Bear predominantly as a woman. However, in this life scenario, it didn't feel right, which was why I posted this thread to find out other people's experiences with the Bear. When I heard that the father was affiliated with a notorious bikie gang, I wondered if there was not only money involved, but also someone who had harboured a grudge or resentment for some reason. Some sort of power play. 

 

Somebody brought him back, then. Ship implies distance. They took him somewhere, possibly meaning to hand him over to someone who would take him out of the country (Ship can be foreign) but whatever deal they were trying to make apparently fell through.
 

Yes, I thought exactly the same. I wonder if he was returned because a vehicle was spotted and ultimately seized by the police. Perhaps they got spooked and thought if the child was returned unharmed, everyone would think the child just wandered off and no further investigation would ensue. 

 

Money was my first thought. Bear might not even be a person here. I read it as high finance sometimes. Andy uses the Tower for that, but he views the Bear as savings, stocks...stored money, the way a bear stores fat. So either way, it's a lot of money. There's a black market for adopting babies and young kids. There are also sex traffickers. Whatever this was about, it's very, very fortunate that it didn't play out.

As per above, my thoughts were heading in that general direction. Regarding sex traffickers - another 3 year old boy "disappeared" a few years ago now. It was constantly in the news (and still is - he has never been found unfortunately). The main emphasis by the police was on a pedophile ring. I wondered if this was something similar but with the bikie affiliation (and being concerned enough to put up CCTV cameras on a very remote property) I tended to think more along a connection with bikie gangs. I know how very, very bad they can be. Would a pedophile ring be represented by the Whip? I didn't think the cards drawn showed anything to point in that direction. Having said that, I only drew three cards, not expecting things to play out the way they did. What about Fish? I strayed away from Bear as big money, thinking Fish represented money but that's more income or money coming in on a regular basis from what I understand. There wouldn't be any need for two cards to represent finance? I wondered if Fish could have represented a person. Perhaps a previous partner in crime, or maybe the father was paying money for safety but pulled out? I don't know. Too many possibilities and variables. 

 

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

Has he said anything, do you know?

No, the child has autism and is non verbal unfortunately. 

 

[Panda]

17 minutes ago, Decan said:

Police for example, it's the Bear with Lenormand.

Generally people who are working in these jobs are male, but there are also women (not a majority though).

 

I remember a joke in the past about a take of Malkiel on the Bear card, actually there was a sort of evolution in his assigned meanings from "the boring beer to the great bear" 😜

I didn't know what exactly happened but he said that the Bear is really the Guy to Meet! 😁

Why not a controlling mother or a woman boss (particularly near a card showing a woman); I'm flexible with the Bear's gender, but more often a man for me.

Thanks Decan. I had no idea Bear could represent the police. I thought that was Dog, for some reason. Must have read it somewhere. 

 

If Bear does represent a person (which I'm now doubting) I think it would be a male. The area the child was found was in quite dense bush. I don't think a female would have left him there. The other reason - the CCTV camera was set up high in a tree. Someone would have had to have climbed up the tree to disable it. Yes, I know. Women can do those sorts of things but my gut tells me it was a male, if indeed he was abducted. The family are using the services of a "tracker" to try and get a better understanding of the boy's movements. The police are still investigating. They can't understand why sniffer dogs didn't pick up his scent, on top of all the other circumstantial information regarding the bikie gang affiliation, camera being disabled etc. The mother actually said initially that someone must have taken him. She didn't believe he wandered off. 

[Decan]

Yes, a police officer would be depicted by Bear.

Power, domination, protection, someone who has power over your life (a dominant parent).

 

Here the context of your practice reading is dreadful of course; my take was just regarding the Bear card in general (as far as I understand it). At times there is no consensus for a card.

[selena]

Hello Everyone 

 

If I read the Bear as a person rather than a situation, I consider the Bear as the dominant presence or person.  
 

If this is a family figure, then I lean more towards the mother — moms tend to be the one who is the primary caregiver.  Also, cubs are raised by the sow. But it can be either gender depending on the seeker's circumstances. 

 

On 9/7/2021 at 8:48 AM, HOLMES said:

But i think sometimes snakes can be male. 

 

The Snake can indicate the presence of a lover (male or female) or betrayal and hypocrisy in someone of either gender.  But if I read her as a person, the Snake card is the Queen of Clubs. So she is a woman. 

 

Just my take.