Fox - Personality

[Ziev]

Can the fox describe someone with a narcissistic personality? I think it could since it is about self-interest. What do you think?

[katrinka]

The Fox can describe anyone deceitful. Narcissists are hardly bastions of honesty. So yes.
But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that anyone described by the Fox is a narcissist.

[Ziev]

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that anyone described by the Fox is a narcissist.

Good to remember for sure.  Thanks @katrinka.

 

I did a practice box spread with a friend. The fox was next to the lady and thought oh! she is a narcissist and wondered if that could work as a description of her. 

[Decan]

I found on the Internet (below) a list of the main traits of a narcissistic personnality:

-Arrogance
-Inability to tolerate criticism
-Tendency to be self-sufficient
-A great ambition and a tendency to competition to reinforce their successes and performance
-Aggressiveness when they fail
-The use of others to satisfy their own needs

-The narcissist tends to value only the people they admire. If this is not the case, they may withdraw into themselves or cut off contact

 

I guess the Fox can fit the part saying that nacissistic people use others to satisfy their own needs, since the Fox is intelligent and cunning, and yes, not "bastions of honesty"; but otherwise this card doesn't fit well.

Actually the card of a peacock would be a better fit here I guess, but in Lenormand there isn't. Arrogance could be a trait of the Tower though, and with this card there can be a tendency to don't consider much others (live in an ivory tower), but in itself the Tower doesn't involve agressivity or using other people, it's more a card of isolation.

Is there the Tower card among the cards you pulled?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Decan

[katrinka]

30 minutes ago, Ziev said:

Good to remember for sure.  Thanks @katrinka.

 

I did a practice box spread with a friend. The fox was next to the lady and thought oh! she is a narcissist and wondered if that could work as a description of her. 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you know someone who's a narcissist and you're wondering if the cards are referring to her? I'd do a second spread and ask.

Card order is important with that combo, too. Fox-Lady is much worse than Lady-Fox.

[katrinka]

I want to add, too, that narcissists are driven by insecurity rather than egomania, and there are studies that reflect this. https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2021/march/narcissism-driven-by-insecurity--not-grandiose-sense-of-self--ne.html

 

Having lived with one (NEVER. AGAIN.) I can vouch for that. They're threatened by literally everything. Put on some nice relaxing music, and some snatch of lyric will send them on a rampage. You never know when it's coming.

So I don't really think the Tower applies, either. The Tower is strong.

 

[Ziev]

17 hours ago, Decan said:

Is there the Tower card among the cards you pulled?

No there wasn't. We were trying to figure out what her characteristics are for practice. 

 

17 hours ago, katrinka said:

If I'm understanding you correctly, you know someone who's a narcissist and you're wondering if the cards are referring to her? I'd do a second spread and ask.

Yes, this is correct. I think a direct question about this would be a great idea. Do you think a box spread would be good or something smaller?

 

2 hours ago, Wildcard said:

real narcism ain't no simple trait and nothing I'd deduce from one card only.

TRUTH!

 

 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Wildcard said:

And I am not well enough versed in psychology (you know, real psychology, not how the elements play into a characters description) to discern such things (narcism, shizophrenia) from the cards, either.

 

This. It's not my area of expertise. I don't have the qualifications to diagnose anybody. And if I did, I wouldn't do it with cards.
And I do believe in the cards. They work. But fortunetelling is not a substitute for science and medicine. It's fine to ask about psych disorders, or disease, or anything else we want to ask about. But serious conditions call for doctors. Not us.
 

2 hours ago, Ziev said:

I think a direct question about this would be a great idea. Do you think a box spread would be good or something smaller?

 

It's a yes or no, you just want to know if the cards were referring to her. I'd keep it short and to the point. Three cards. 😉
 

 

 

[bastetly]

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

I want to add, too, that narcissists are driven by insecurity rather than egomania, and there are studies that reflect this. https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2021/march/narcissism-driven-by-insecurity--not-grandiose-sense-of-self--ne.html

 

Having lived with one (NEVER. AGAIN.) I can vouch for that. They're threatened by literally everything. Put on some nice relaxing music, and some snatch of lyric will send them on a rampage. You never know when it's coming.

So I don't really think the Tower applies, either. The Tower is strong.

 

So true.  I have known several very well.  It's absolutely exhausting.  They will never allow you to have a good time bc if it isn't about them it must be destroyed.

And yes, it IS an insecurity issue.  Threatened by everything, and every one that doesn't jump to their tune.  A healthy ego or even a grandiose one isn't Narcissism.  (We can all exhibit narcissist traits fm time to time, obviously.)

Cards may provide a clue, but a doctor (and experience) are better to rely on.  Not even sure if it's curable? 

 

 I don't recommend trying to FIX a true Narcissist!  They're not inclined to introspection.  It's really sad bc they are damaged (and often charming) people and need help.  But they would rather damage you.  Just speaking fm experiences, and having had a parent who was somewhere on that spectrum...

 

[katrinka]

7 minutes ago, bastetly said:

Not even sure if it's curable?

 

I doubt it's curable. Therapy would probably make them less dangerous and unbearable, but good luck getting them to go. Good luck even broaching the subject.

 

7 minutes ago, bastetly said:

 I don't recommend trying to FIX a true Narcissist!  They're not inclined to introspection.  It's really sad bc they are damaged (and often charming) people and need help.  But they would rather damage you. 

 

Yeah. They draw you in, and it's tricky AF getting out. And the gaslighting...gods, they try to make you think you're crazy. And they're the crazy one, and you know that, but you can't SAY anything. They edit everything that happens, even inconsequential  stuff: if Moe names the cat, they'll say Joe named it, and everybody'd better go along with that or else.

So yeah. Keep them strictly at arm's length, at the very least. But the further, the better.

[Decan]

So, likely not the Tower, or as a part of a combination. The Tree afflicted stresses a medical problem either physical or psychological. I see Lenormand as a deck more directed to situations and a bit less about personality description, but it's just me and I can be wrong since people are good at that.

People in the old days were likely more interested in external situations and outcomes, interest in psychology is a modern science.

[katrinka]

Yes.
Lenormand can be adapted to keep up with the times. The Rider can talk about cars as easily as horses, the Letter can be a text or email, etc.
But there's logic to that. A vehicle is a vehicle, and written communication is what it is, whether you're writing it on paper in longhand or typing on your phone.
So I don't think it's so much that psychology and psychiatry are fairly recent developments. It's that they're very specialized fields requiring a vast knowledge base. A qualified professional is well versed in a range of subjects spanning natural and social sciences. They stay abreast of research and peer-reviewed studies. They're immersed.

So they have that knowledge base to draw on. A knowledge base is important. I know nothing of high finance, so reading about complex financial transactions that involve huge amounts of money is very difficult for me. I've done it - successfully - but that involved the sitter meeting me halfway and asking how specific investments would play out. I can't lay a grand tableau and just start rattling off on the subject.

Likewise, if you have a reader who is very young, there can be issues. At 12 or 13, a person lacks life experience. So they could have a natural talent for reading cards, but only a short lifetime of experiences to draw on. They need more time to develop into a person who has been through a lot, known a lot of people, etc.

So we could ask about psych disorders and the cards will answer. The answer will be there staring us in the face but we probably won't see it, or we'll misinterpret it because we don't know enough about the subject.

It's OK not to know everything, nobody does. We don't get to be gods. The "sees all, knows all, tells all!" cliche is fiction.

[Ziev]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:15 PM, katrinka said:

t's a yes or no, you just want to know if the cards were referring to her. I'd keep it short and to the point. Three cards. 😉

Brilliant, thanks again!

 

I enjoying the conversation here. Unfortunately, I have had my fair share of run-ins with narcissistic jacks and its not fun. The person who was the lady in the reading is definitely one and thought maybe this was a clue as to who she is etc. It does make sense now hat one card would not pinpoint this trait. I have never asked for traits in a box spread but when I get a moment I plan on doing a quick yes/no asking if she is one. 

[katrinka]

4 minutes ago, Wildcard said:

Luckily, the image of the all-knowing from no base whatsoever card reader is fading away more and more.

I still get those sometimes. I used to get them a lot on the lines, people would test me. And I do fine with general stuff. I hit on enough that they drop the silence and ask questions. But it's easy to do with "normal" things like jobs, relationships, health, etc. If I had to do it with stocks, bonds, money laundering and offshore accounts I'd be lost.

[katrinka]

8 minutes ago, Wildcard said:

Astonishement was mine when I saw you mentioned that you got a share of 2,50 per minute on keen (was it?).

 

You set your own rate there and Keen takes almost three quarters of the gross. People who set low rates were getting chump change.
They did a good job promoting us back in the day, so I put up with it, since I really hate writing ad copy and spamming myself all over the place. But eventually they changed hands and didn't even promote us properly any more.
 

19 minutes ago, Wildcard said:

Those without questions, into the blue, my oh my, nope. In short: Me, too.

Yeah, it's unrelatable. I'd have to be a billionaire to make sense of it. All I ever did with money was pay for stuff.

[katrinka]

They're paying someone to pay attention to them, I think. That's the only reason I can find for someone to pay a hack reader for non-answers: attention.

[katrinka]

Yeah. And that stuff is trending bigtime. Humanity is up **** creek without a paddle.

[katrinka]

Another cheesed-off client who will never be booking any of us who actually can read cards.

I'm happy to see someone telling them off, though. 😁


 

[joy]

Great talk @Wildcard and @katrinka just a tiny wee bit off topic 😝 So let us go back to our dear Fox personality. 🙂

[Ziev]

21 hours ago, Wildcard said:

Scrubs, really now, there seem to be quiet a bit more of them narcists than I could imagine. I got curious now, regarding the position of the fox in this specific reading.

Here's what would be nice to know: Was the fox in front of (the card dealt before) the woman card or thereafter?

Concerning regards, I'll look up some pictures of that Maybe-Lenormand.

I will post a picture of the spread in the Lenormand readings and come back to post link here as an edit to this post. 

 

Here is the post. 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Ziev

[katrinka]

LOL. I'd have just said mea culpa and offered an apology.
But this is kind of impressive. 😁
Yes, back to Fox. Clubs/acorns. Trouble, upset, loss, hardship. Run!

 

[Raggydoll]

13 hours ago, Wildcard said:

...was what I had planned to do, but then, well, things just kinda came togehter and thought "Whelp, why not?"

Hopefully, no one took offense.

😉

You should have gone with your first instinct. We need you to be respectful of staff. Joy was very kind when phrasing her request, but it was still the request by a staff member. That means it’s not a recommendation or a starting point for yet another off topic discussion. If you strongly disagree, then message Staff to discuss it further. Just know that if all of staff feels the same way, staff has final say (rule number 2). 

[selena]

Fox indicates someone who prioritises their own needs and interests above all else. The issue is that need puts it in direct competition with us. sabotage, cheating and manipulation are default responses. 

 

If it crowns a person card it is their prime motivator.

 

Combined with the Scythe, these become quite dangerous traits. I cannot see the Tower as narcissistic. 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, selena said:

Fox indicates someone who prioritises their own needs and interests above all else. The issue is that need puts it in direct competition with us. sabotage, cheating and manipulation are default responses. 

 

Yes. And it's often "the way it is" and "the cost of doing business."
You don't call the police when a fox raids the henhouse.

[selena]

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

 

Yes. And it's often "the way it is" and "the cost of doing business."
You don't call the police when a fox raids the henhouse.

Agreed.

 

5 minutes ago, Wildcard said:

No single card, ever.

Descriptive value (see article posted by katrinka) is still there, if ill aligned. Add a moountain, you have "under siege" - seems fitting.

Back to the fox - at times, a foxy person is needed, but the person has to rule the fox for that, not vise versa.

And some positive cards around would be helpful. Still, I'd carefully approach.

 

I’m not too sure I follow. There is nothing about the Tower - with or without the Mountain - that would lead me to consider narcissism. Narcissism doesn’t much align with longevity and distance. But that is just me and how the cards have worked.