How do you choose a deck with so many options

[Teemu]

I still think everybody should choose the deck they like, never mind the so-called standards. That does not mean to buy anything that comes your way and looks remotely appealing. A card caster should be picky and look thrice at least before buying. I admit it is difficult. On a personal note, I always ask myself, "Is that really different from RWS or Thoth, does it really promise new insights?" Mostly the answer is NO, if you are honest to yourself.

 

A deck collector is free to buy anything they like of course.

[gregory]

1 hour ago, Teemu said:

A deck collector is free to buy anything they like of course.

 

As a deck collector who has read with every deck she owns, I think anyone gets to buy what ever deck calls to them. I think there's an awful lot of overthinking going on here. I don't think there's a "best deck to start with". My first was the 1JJ; it was what was available at the time. I didn't read with it then, but I learned a lot from the book that came with it. What matters most is the attitude we bring to a deck. If we are open to learning, any deck offers that opportunity. But how to choose - now that there is so much choice - is to pick a deck that appeals to you. Many of us in this forum, really dislike the look of the original Waite deck. In that case - whatever its virtues - maybe a deck that looks nicer is a better option. Starting out with a deck you don't like to look at won't help the learning process.

[JoyousGirl]

4 hours ago, gregory said:

Starting out with a deck you don't like to look at won't help the learning process.

 

I'd probably agree with that. I couldn't understand why RWS was recommended, until I got more decks - then I went back to it and persisted because it finally clicked - and you know what they say about anything worth having....

 

One good thing is most people know what you're talking about when you bring up the card in conversation. Back in Aeclectic days I would contribute to readings without referring to the hard copy of the RWS card because I could see it in my minds eye.

 

Sadly, I've got decks I love the look of that I don't read with at all.  Tarot of One thousand and one nights is a good example. I thought it would be my go-to because I always loved the stories, and the pictures are divine.  But I can't see them very well - my eyes aren't as good as they were 20 years ago! Maybe if there was a larger borderless version? But maybe not. I've gone hard core sustainable so buying decks when I don't use the ones I have is guilt inducing. 

 

5 hours ago, Teemu said:

everybody should choose the deck they like

 

Yes indeed. If it makes you want to look at it and spend time with it, definitely.  As Gregory said above, wanting to look at them will help the learning process. I'm probably weird in that I sort of think it's like jumping into a RWS frequency wave that many others are on there's a well-developed collective knowledge or guidance to tap into which might not occur as easily in the modern decks - like more books have been written referring to the RWS and that's all out there in the ethers somewhere. Coo-coo and ga-ga maybe, but hey.

 

So Lucy (or anyone), choose what you want.  Exercise free choice.  

Edited October 27, 2024 by JoyousGirl

[JoyousGirl]

8 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

set me off in the wrong directions

 

Can you explain this a bit more? You would have learned something along the way, wouldn't you?  

 

 

[gregory]

Yes indeed. There is no WRONG DIRECTION when it comes to learning, unless you are referring to actual misinformation - and the Waite deck - whether you like it or not - or the Flemish/Bolognese/Sola Busca are different but do not misinform. The only decks I would say might lead someone in a wrong direction would be some of the truly awful fan decks - the Charmed

 

 

comes to mind, but even that read well, when I used it as an experiment, years ago. My question was what it thought of itself as a deck - and it said it wasn't up to much.

 

No - I see I asked it about its contribution to the world of tarot.

Edited October 27, 2024 by gregory

[Raggydoll]

11 minutes ago, gregory said:

Yes indeed. There is no WRONG DIRECTION when it comes to learning, unless you are referring to actual misinformation - and the Waite deck - whether you like it or not - or the Flemish/Bolognese/Sola Busca are different but do not misinform. The only decks I would say might lead someone in a wrong direction would be some of the truly awful fan decks - the Charmed

 

 

comes to mind, but even that read well, when I used it as an experiment, years ago. My question was what it thought of itself as a deck - and it said it wasn't up to much.

 

No - I see I asked it about its contribution to the world of tarot.

Off topic, but that deck is so bad that it is fabulous !! I want it ! 🤣

[Misterei]

On 10/26/2024 at 6:50 PM, gregory said:

... I think anyone gets to buy what ever deck calls to them. I think there's an awful lot of overthinking going on here.

I think the overthinking arises from a total beginner trying to decide which deck calls to them. When you're new and there's 1001 decks to choose from ... what if 666 of them call to you? As a beginner you don't yet know what you don't know.

 

Over time I've discovered that some eye candy decks don't read well for me. Every day I see some deck that *calls to me*. But I seldom to never buy it. A deck has to do more than call to me. It has to meet certain standards which I can only define based-on years of experience and sadly money wasted on decks i ended-up giving away.

On 10/26/2024 at 6:50 PM, gregory said:

I don't think there's a "best deck to start with". My first was the 1JJ; it was what was available at the time. I didn't read with it then, but I learned a lot from the book that came with it. What matters most is the attitude we bring to a deck. If we are open to learning, any deck offers that opportunity.

But how to choose - now that there is so much choice - ... Starting out with a deck you don't like to look at won't help the learning process.

LOL in a way it might be better to start with a deck you don't necessarily like.

 

Agonizing over the perfect deck for YOU isn't about tarot. it strikes me as self-centered nonsense arising from consumerism. I didn't particularly like the plaid-back RWS with its garish primary colors. But it was all that was available to me 45 years ago ... and I learnt it. Why? Because I wanted to learn TAROT.

 

Also, as a teacher, I must say it's just easier to teach [and learn] the classics like RWS or TdM or Tarocchi or Thoth. I think some of the trendy theme decks short-circuit the learning curve. You're more focused on the trend or theme than the card itself.

 

On 10/26/2024 at 10:50 PM, JoyousGirl said:

... I couldn't understand why RWS was recommended, until I got more decks - then I went back to it and persisted because it finally clicked - and you know what they say about anything worth having....

 

One good thing is most people know what you're talking about when you bring up the card in conversation. Back in Aeclectic days I would contribute to readings without referring to the hard copy of the RWS card because I could see it in my minds eye.

Yep. I felt a sense of fulfillment from a 15 years monagamous relationship w/ RWS. I know that deck REALLY WELL.

On 10/26/2024 at 10:50 PM, JoyousGirl said:

Sadly, I've got decks I love the look of that I don't read with at all.  Tarot of One thousand and one nights is a good example. I thought it would be my go-to because I always loved the stories, and the pictures are divine.  But I can't see them very well - my eyes aren't as good as they were 20 years ago!

I SO relate. I need cataracts surgery. Until that gets done, i really only use decks with which I'm very familiar. Otherwise its too easy to misread the cards.

 

On a different note, sometimes its not eyesight. Sometimes i like the artwork of a deck, but it doesn't read well for me. I've given away or donated about 5-10 decks that looked great but didn't read for me.

 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:19 AM, gregory said:

Yes indeed. There is no WRONG DIRECTION when it comes to learning, unless you are referring to actual misinformation -

Fair enough. But I guess I've seen a sh*t ton of misinformation out there. And since Tarot is an interpretive art/science -- it can get difficult to define misinformation.

 

Going back to the topic, I do see a detriment for beginners to learn more about the trend / fashion / creator's viewpoint than they learn about TAROT.

 

I may sound like an old puritan but I say start with a classic, so you actually learn TAROT -- not some graphic designer's half-ass3d notions of what she thinks will sell after she slaps it together in photoshop.

[Scandinavianhermit]

On 10/27/2024 at 7:03 AM, JoyousGirl said:

 

Can you explain this a bit more? You would have learned something along the way, wouldn't you?  

 

 

Well, yes, but I wish I had arrived at my present method(s) earlier, and I regret that, at the time, RWS and 1JJ Swiss were the only widely available tarot decks, which wasn't helpful if RWS or 1JJ Swiss weren't one's favourite choice.

 

Waite wrote a few very good books about other subjects, but I find his Pictorial Key to the Tarot bewildering. He took upon himself to fuse or merge several existing systems into an attempted all-encompassing system, but the result was confusion. Each of the included systems would probably have worked very well if used one at the time, separately, but put into a figurative kitchen blender the result is contradictory.

 

Ten of Wands – according to the RWS system – signifies: Fortune, gain, "any kind of success", "difficulties and contradictions", oppression, "disguise, perfidy", honour, good faith. I don't know what to do with that card, if I had to follow the RWS system. It means EVERYTHING at once.

 

Five of Pentacles (Waite's and Smith's name for coins or deniers) depicts two wounded beggars outside a church building in a blizzard, which is supposed to signify, among other things, love, lovers, wife, husband, mistress. Really? 

 

Since then, I have realised the worth of non-scenic pips (particularly if the Popess and the Pope are not replaced by Juno and Jupiter), but if I use a deck with scenic pips, which I often do, I expect the scenes to have something to do with each card's well-defined and limited divinatory meaning. Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot meet these expectations better than any RWS, or clone thereof, does.

 

I like Pamela Colman Smith's artwork, and would gladly hang a framed reproduction of one of her cards on the wall, but I'm unable to read with her cards.

 

I would recommend beginners to familiarise themselves with any good Marseille deck early on, in order to understand where tarot comes from. I don't consider Grimaud a good one, because of the colouring choice.

 

Friends who've managed to make the RWS actually work for them had to abandon the two authors' intent, and read Eden Gray instead, i.e. they are not using the RWS when they are using the RWS.

Edited October 29, 2024 by Scandinavianhermit

[gregory]

7 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

Well, yes, but I wish I had arrived at my present method(s) earlier, and I regret that, at the time, RWS and 1JJ Swiss were the only widely available tarot decks, which wasn't helpful if RWS or 1JJ Swiss weren't one's favourite choice.

 

If they were all there was (which was the same as it was when I got my 1JJ) favouritism doesn't come into it. You can't choose what isn't there to be bought. Would you rather have bought nothing and missed out on those few years ?

[Misterei]

8 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

Friends who've managed to make the RWS actually work for them had to abandon the two authors' intent, and read Eden Gray instead, i.e. they are not using the RWS when they are using the RWS.

That's how I learned. RWS deck and Eden Gray book. AE Waite's book wasn't available and I only bought that book much later.

 

That's one advantage of the digital revolution even though it's put so many derivative clones of clones of clones out there. If a student wants to start with a traditional TdM or Tarocchi, there are more to choose from and they are nicer. Back in the day there was only 1 TdM available to me and it wasn't so great. Now its much easier to recommend a traditional style deck to students b/c there are nice ones available now.

Edited October 29, 2024 by Misterei

[JoyousGirl]

 

9 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I wish I had arrived at my present method(s) earlier,

 

I think we all do. The issue is likely a social one, in that we all want to achieve a certain status or capability before we have done the work.   And we ALL want people to agree with whatever we say in a reading and be amazed. Every child inside us wants to believe in magic and desires to have special powers even if we get to the age of 100 😀  This is why religion's so popular, we're sort of outsourcing that power.

 

 

9 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I expect the scenes to have something to do with each card's well-defined and limited divinatory meaning.

 

You would create that meaning though when you look at it - much easier than trying to remember what has been set out for you by rote. That's why I stopped reading to begin with because I was trying to go by the book that seemed overly prescriptive.  Occult science, like any other science, is a learning process - I'm not sure there's any conclusive answer on anything in the world that we can bundle up and say is final.  Besides, final answers would render everything a bit pointless.  And in this case would be too limiting as there's more than 78 situations in life. 

 

9 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

Ten of Wands – according to the RWS system – signifies: Fortune, gain, "any kind of success", "difficulties and contradictions", oppression, "disguise, perfidy", honour, good faith. I don't know what to do with that card, if I had to follow the RWS system. It means EVERYTHING at once.

 

Going by the more than 78 situations comment I made above, this 10 of Wands might indicate fortune or gain because he's doing the work carrying the bundles over to the tilled field out the back there - and combined with an 8 of pentacles this  meaning might apply, alternatively disguise and perfidy indicated by him hiding his face might be combined with a sword to indicate this sort of situation. So while it seems to mean everything at once, there's always other things interacting with us in our daily lives. We can go on a journey but someone else is going on one too, and what they're doing may impact us or vice versa. So multiple meanings are natural, but we ultimately give them our own.

 

Waite probably wasn't sure himself - I see all of us Tarot students (here on TT&M especially) as working on an academic essay, cobbling together other peoples' ideas and coming up with our own slant on things.  We work with them, we get insights, we refer back to what a former reading outcome was etc. something someone says sticks in our head because it just gels with us.  All that knowledge leads to refined intuition.

 

All of these things have led to you and others finding the method that works - an ongoing learning method, and freedom to change your ideas as you learn more. We're all learning, and as Ram Dass said (probably quoting someone else) we're all walking each other home. 

 

 

 

[Scandinavianhermit]

On 10/29/2024 at 9:59 PM, gregory said:

 

If they were all there was (which was the same as it was when I got my 1JJ) favouritism doesn't come into it. You can't choose what isn't there to be bought. Would you rather have bought nothing and missed out on those few years ?

You have a very good point! I had to begin somewhere. By bouncing around between RWS, 1JJ Swiss and Grand Etteilla, I realised what sort of deck I was looking for. I'm very happy with CBD Tarot and Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot for reading purposes, and a faithful reproduction of 1889 Oswald Wirth trumps for meditation. Occasionally Rose Tarot for meditation. 

On 10/29/2024 at 10:14 PM, Misterei said:

If a student wants to start with a traditional TdM or Tarocchi, there are more to choose from and they are nicer. Back in the day there was only 1 TdM available to me and it wasn't so great. Now its much easier to recommend a traditional style deck to students b/c there are nice ones available now.

I agree, and deeply so. Grimaud's very dark post-1968 Marseille deck in very few colours kept me away from Marseille style decks for quite some time. CBD arrived like something of a revelation in my cartomancy life. I haven't (yet) taken a look on what Morsucci and Ottolini have done with their particular version of the Marseille deck, but it might be interesting.

On 10/30/2024 at 12:01 AM, JoyousGirl said:

All of these things have led to you and others finding the method that works - an ongoing learning method, and freedom to change your ideas as you learn more. We're all learning, and as Ram Dass said (probably quoting someone else) we're all walking each other home. 

I certainly agree with you about an ongoing learning process. I still adapt and fine tune my two ways of reading tarot and my personal manner of reading ordinary playing cards, but let me add: Marseille decks and 19th century Italian decks allows you to change your ideas more easily than scenic pip decks do. The latter are more prescriptive. 

On 10/30/2024 at 12:01 AM, JoyousGirl said:

And in this case would be too limiting as there's more than 78 situations in life. 

Keyword reading is less limiting than often presumed. Take Etteilla's (and tarot readers following his school) five of wands/batons and seven of coins/deniers: Gold and silver. These will signify quite different things if the stated question is about an athletic competition, financial matters, or timing an event by day or by night, for instance. 

[Raggydoll]

6 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

Keyword reading is less limiting than often presumed. Take Etteilla's (and tarot readers following his school) five of wands/batons and seven of coins/deniers: Gold and silver. These will signify quite different things if the stated question is about an athletic competition, financial matters, or timing an event by day or by night, for instance. 

That’s an excellent example and it’s very similar to how I read with my casting oracles. I find keywords/themes very useful when the words are well chosen and selected from a divinatory standpoint.