Pathworking

[Deian]

 

Lets go a little into this  practice. This was used a lot in G.D. one way or another. The idea here is very connected to something called Astral Projection back then, that falls into the larger idea of "Out of Body Experiences". Its states when we are aware of ourselves, that doesn't carry the idea of physical body along. People go through that by itself, often in very intense moments of their life, without training most people usually remember a few of those through their life, yet if we go deeply enough into studies and researches on that we can see a lot of people do it very often, they just think its a dream(or also often that they were awake) after and there are good reasons for that as well.

 

So what does that have to do with Pathworking... Pathworking was one of the ideas in the old orders that was, actually, very wise, in my humble view. It suggests that if we view our cards as representing specific paths/transitions in the Tree of Life and we view the Tree of Life as specific paths/transitions in our physical and subtle bodies, then we can use the cards to "clear that up".

If we have problem in our life, something we aren't interacting well with, we can go "through' the card and walk the path that it represents. The experiences from there can help with that same problem in most cases.

Now, this are very wide topics and they flow into other even wider topics, as some is studied in a lot more encompassing systems then that parts of Hermetisms were(though they weren't small in amount of ideas/literature, either), so we will just go over the surface of what I'm aware of as useful and connected to this, but wasn't known back then, what of these has been developed more deeply in other traditions and places and what one may want to try out if already curious about that, but not getting nice enough results so far.

 

First thing to clarify is that the structure of the Sephirot is resonating in other places as well. The planets when we are born show the Tree as well, or that same connections, as probably most know. They are also directions around us, also based on when we were born, and in the house we live in, there are Sephirot in each direction(that is studied deeply as part of Feng Shui in the East, although of course, not called "sephirot" and called Wondering Star instead), this is also in our body, although the connection from Sephirot to body part has to go through Feng Shui, or maybe through western astrology, as I'm not sure the Tree works well enough for the physical body in this way(it may I just haven't seen it in a working way yet). We do have it as just relating the Images of the Tree turned around to the body, but in practice, doesn't seem to work very well, as there are no Images of organs, systems, tissues or anything more subtle one may want.

 

In astrology, we can view the Tree with Gevurah is Mars, Chesed as Jupiter. Lets say we have problem opening up(Chesed) to people, we act in a hostile way when interaction is going on more often then we would like. Or lets say we have problems with Mars in our chart, as we practice astrology in some way. Now we can view the path from Chesed to Gevurah, and in the arrangement of the Tree I'm using that is Justice from the major arcana. In the more popular view to it its the Strength.
 The idea here is we go out of body, we pull our deck(we can do that) find Justice or Strength(depending on what view of the tree we work with) and we strep through it with the intention to walk the path from Chesed to Gevurah.
 Doing that is suppose to show us something that can clear the stuff that has made it difficult to flow in our subtle bodies in that path.
 
 
 Now, similar way, I would guess, one can do with acupuncture, or even just with physical exercises, as they do in the East. In most cases one can do it in their house as well, this we have seen greatly with time, part of the house will have a problem and that can be solved on that level, but that needs Feng Shui knowledge.
 Yet if we know that Gevurah/Mars is Metal in the East, one problem we have seen there that people often doesn't think of is just people activating too much Metal there(that is name of one of the Chinese Metaphysics elements, similar to our Air in some aspects, although very different in others). Then it hits lungs/large intestine and Severity in relation to peoples.
 
 
 In theory, in the orders the movement between levels was done based on that practices. One walks the paths, sees attributed Images of the path, then they tell it to the higher ranking members of the order, if that is suppose to be seen on that path in their view they pass. At least something like that was described somewhere, on that.
  In any case, now from all this average practitioner is likely to see 2 problems to the practice. One is how to exit their body, the other is how to enter the card. What happens after, in my humble view, is not what they described at all, so can't prepare for that. Also I would guess may be different for everyone.
 
 And here comes the reason for the whole topic, I was hoping to provide somewhat more recent systems, approaches and methods to work with parts of that
 that will work better then what was done back then(that was imagining they are performing a ritual in detail and hope it happens by itself, from what I know there is no reason for that to work very well, if the person isn't very, very suited for that approach,specifically).
 
 So first thing is this interesting site:
https://remspace.net/
 
 I've been following new tendencies in out of body research for many decades, starting with the Gateways by Monroe many years back and going through countless others and this, in my humble view(the phase point of view) seem to be one of the best approach I've seen so far to actually experience it. I wouldn't recommend it for long use, but if one can't get the first few projections and just want to observe what it is and how it works, this is probably one(if not THE) best way.
 
 They have free books, free videos and other stuff, also seminar with subtitles in youtube somewhere, I see they are selling stuff now, can't comment on that part, but as they do research and stuff, maybe needed funding. In any case, the techniques from there for first few exits work I think.
 Of course, they have their own point of view with that, as it usually is. In this case its more scientifically oriented, I don't see problem with that, I think any worthy metaphysical practitioner have to be able to switch domains easily and benefit from the knowledge in all, that is found.
 
 Lets say we have "exited" our body or at least it seems so, a few times(or if one is more scientifically inclined, then we can say "...has took advantage of the brain states needed to experience that" or something...),  then we need to get our deck out and find specific card.
 I think most practitioners will see that that is easily said then done.
  Here can just recommend to not search for the card at all. In most cases, we can create stuff in these spaces. We can just create the Images of the card on a door around us, then just go through with it. May seem silly, but works in many cases.

  Well, we have covered first 2 important steps. How to accomplish "astral projection" in an easier way and how to enter the card in an easier way. What happens after that... Practice shows that it may not be what one expects at all, so will leave that to the practitioners to observe for themselves.

  Now another thing I want to mention is that there are... other types of projections. We don't have the experience of leaving our body as fully with them, we sense like part of us is entering the card and walking to the paths etc. but we are still awake.
  How to develop that... Well, in my humble view Chinese Metaphysics paths are good way, another is the dreaming Kabalistic schools I have posted about somewhere around the forum. In the Eastern systems this is work with different types of intention(one can view it as Yin and Yang part of attention/focus, then can split and use both of them in different parts of this, Yin part of attention holding the card, Yang for sensing the movement through it or whatever we can think of once we know how parts of it can be seen) What was mentioned about working with other types of projection is connected to what they call Shen in there, I think.
  For that at this point will point to Wang Liping system(Dragon Gate Lineage).
  There are more then a few books, free videos and other stuff from people learning it there. I find a lot of stuff I've seen on my own from other systems around the world, mentioned there, so makes sense to assume stuff I don't know may be on point as well.
 
  I think this is nice for first surface glance at it.
  While I may have mention some problems I have with the old views in the orders, Pathworking is practice I respect deeply, even in the way they attempted to do it, and that happens rarely.
 
  Now, some of these practices have their... Challenges. In any case bravery may be needed to stay on it in some cases.
  I don't want to go into too much details in the potential problems, the idea of the post is to be for people already attempting this, so somewhat familiar with what experiences may happened and already willing to take risk of unpleasant experiences that may come with it. Also having people they can ask and talk with about it. But if someone not familiar decide to try just form the info here and in the mentioned sources(not recommended!),have to know that if something specifically scary happens,that isn't connected to the outside environment it should disappear after a few minutes by itself, don't need to do much for it. Also its a normal thing that happens, its not out of the ordinary even if it may seem so.

That is it, feel free to ask if you have any questions and happy practice, for people practicing stuff! : )

 

 

[Misterei]

5 hours ago, Deian said:

... This was used a lot in G.D. one way or another. The idea here is very connected to something called Astral Projection ... Pathworking was one of the ideas in the old orders ... we view our cards as representing specific paths/transitions in the Tree of Life and we view the Tree of Life as specific paths/transitions in our physical and subtle bodies, then we can use the cards to "clear that up".

If we have problem in our life, something we aren't interacting well with, we can go "through' the card and walk the path that it represents. ...

Interesting. I never knew where the phrase *pathworking* came from.

 

Then again, not being kabbalah based, I wouldn't practice in this way. Still, the idea of exploring Tarots via meditation and different states of consciousness is dear to my heart. I take a yogic approach. Specifically the last 3 of the 8 limbs of yoga [ashtanga]: dharana (active concentration), dhyana (passive contemplation) and samadhi (union).

 

I see these as different ways to work with cards, the first 2 lead to the third which is Total Union with the card's archetype. Dharana might be studying the card and actively learning about it, journaling it, drawing it. Dhyana is passive contemplation via meditation. Free of judgements and thoughts about the card. Just allowing its imagery to seep into your awareness. Samadhi is total union with the card. Embodying its archetype. When I have samadhi moments with cards they are always *non-corporeal states of consciousness* b/c to me the real initiations in Tarot lie beyond the rational mind. One is fully absorbed *in* the card.

[Deian]

Someone I knew long time ago was speaking in similar way about Mantras.
I think if we meditate on Sanskrit stuff(most popular mantras out there are in Sanskrit) that doesn't lose coherence in advanced states, as it can get simpler as we go deeper.
For Tarot... I don't know.
Doesn't the images from Tarot disappear at the last stage, for you, though?

 

[Rose Lalonde]

I first became interested in pathworking after reading Dion Fortune, who made it sound so straight forward --

 

Quote

 

One “formulates a concrete symbol that the eye can see, and lets it represent the abstract reality that no untrained human mind can grasp.

 

It is exactly the same principle as algebra. Let X represent the unknown quantity, let Y represent the half of X, and let Z represent something we know. If we begin to experiment with Y; to find out its relation to Z, and in what proportions, it soon ceases to be entirely unknown; we have learnt something at any rate about it; and if we are sufficiently skillful we may in the end be able to express Y in terms of Z, and then we shall begin to understand X.

 

And how does he do this? He does it by using a composite symbol; a symbol which is an unattached unit would not serve his purpose. In contemplating such a composite symbol as the Tree of Life he observes that there are definite relations between its parts. There are some parts of which he knows something; there are others of which he can intuit something, or, more crudely, make a guess, reasoning from first principles. The mind leaps from one known to another known and in so doing traverses certain distances, metaphorically speaking

 

The things it renders are unthinkable and yet the mind, tracking from symbol to symbol, manages to think about them..."

 

 

Though, as you said, @Deian, this process of feeling one has exited the body and entered the card and path is not so simple as algebra! Plus the images or emotions that arise through it.  --  @Misterei mentioned samadhi, and being more used to Buddhist meditation, I do find that the image of the card falls away at a certain point. In fact, everything I conceive of by conventional means falls away eventually, leaving all encompassing Oneness (though that word doesn't get at it,  since defining oneness implies dualism and an existence of something other than oneness). But I've only approached that point once and very briefly. It was years ago, but my imperfect memory of it is still like a 'true north' compass point for me.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Rose Lalonde
typo

[Nisterius]

Since about January, I've been on a journey of finally, in my 45th year, trying make meditation of some form a regular practice. After reading several books (in the GD, scientific, and Christian traditions) I came to figure that - as you said - "astral travel" and "pathworking" are, like "Ignatian meditation" a form of active imagination, or "self-guided meditation" if you will. One of the books I've been following (The Tower of Alchemy) by Goddard is insistent that "make real" the imagined setting, and "move about in it" - well, that's simply not going to happen: at least, no matter how hard I furrow my brow it only gets so real and I can only imagine so well that I'm stepping out of my body. On the other hand, another book (Contemplative Masonry by Chuck Dunning) is more easy-going - "imagine this the best you can; that's good enough."  Well - that permission was enough to at least let me keep practicing! I have still never imagined Goddard's tower with any degree of realism, conjured, as it is, from my own imagination.  However, following Dunning's book I have done what might be called a pathworking - that is, a mental walkthrough of the 1st degree of Freemasonry: Here I feel much deeper into the experience: Since it took place in a room, and with people I know, my mind supplied much more detail, and I was able to almost daydream my way through it (something that hasn't happened much since reading as a child).  I spent I think 45 minutes without particularly noticing the passing of time, but actually forgetting that I was sitting there as I worked through the space and script.

That's "more of a comment than a question" I'm afraid. 😅 

[Deian]

Rose Lalonde

"Though, as you said, @Deian, this process of feeling one has exited the body and entered the card and path is not so simple as algebra! Plus the images or emotions that arise through it. "

Its not,yea. This is a strange direction to go in, but I assume that is what she knew. I actually like what she(D.F.) did historically around G.D. and people there, looks like a decent human being and that may have been rare at the time. Practically speaking, however, doing it logically is not a very good choice, in my humble view, for obvious reasons now.

 

" In fact, everything I conceive of by conventional means falls away eventually, leaving all encompassing Oneness "
I think the great question is can we structure our belief systems and understanding in a way that it won't fall away in moments like that. At least not fully. If we can, then accessing that should become very close experience to us and with no obstacles between us and that. I believe we can, but there may be a lot of authorities and credible sources we may have to throw out, as they may not have had access to that parts of themselves and it all.

 

 

Nisterius

I think imagination/guided visualization are a difficult topic to go into.
They are frown upon in some places because... Well, there is something we interact with, everyday. Be that "reality" or Unspoken Levels, or Great Dream, or Universe or whatever we want to call it. That is there and some view that our job is to know that, to experience and understand it as well as we can.Imagination, depends how its used, but often the way its used in the West paints on top of that, and often other peoples experiences and understanding. We may lose the original Image that is our entry to the Great Dream, in that way.

 

"astral travel" and "pathworking" are, like "Ignatian meditation" a form of active imagination, or "self-guided meditation" if you will."

 

In a full Out of Body Experience, we are more awake then we are in physical world everyday life, in my experience. But the body has to be asleep, something that doesn't happen in meditation, as there are chemical processes that start when body considers itself asleep, that I have never seen starting in meditation in people. So its not exactly meditation, not clear what it is. Bbut you probably have had lucid dreams(when one is awake while dreaming), most people remember those, if you think about it, its not a meditation. We are, for all intense and purposes somewhere else, and at that point it isn't a dream, we are awake, just happening to be in the place we usually are when we dream. There is very little control of the surrounding, as we do in guided visualizations. One of the reasons I prefer the other projections(when it is a meditation) more.

 

I think in most western systems people were not aware how to use it or what it was. From the ones I know and that is definitely not all, but G.D. and some others. But even Doreals order, that I do have respect for, also doesn't use techniques for that that can ever work for an average person, in my humble view. So I would guess most of the practitioners there had never experience it or know what it was, unless they got to it by accident and that is rare as well.
No idea about Masonry, as I haven't researched stuff there.
But from what I have seen back then it was not well understood, as rarely people were given the means to experience it, one of the reasons I point to the Phase material, as that does work, for most, and that is worth mentioning.
And if one does it and stabilize the other end of it, its not a dream, not a meditation or visualization, either. We are fully awake, more then in everyday life in some cases and we are in the place we are when we dream. Be that place a "state of the brain" or an actual place.

[Misterei]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:39 PM, Rose Lalonde said:

... this process of feeling one has exited the body and entered the card and path is not so simple ...

I found myself needing to define terms like *out of body* vs. *astral* to comment further.

To me *astral travel* means using the astral body to travel in the astral plane. This is distinct from *out of body* experience.

 

Twice in my life my awareness left my body and I could look down and see myself sitting there below. I noticed everything looked the same as per rooms in the house -- but the angles appeared differently and also the perspective shift of being closer to the ceiling than I normally am 😉 

 

I've never been able to recreate this *out of body* experience. If I could, I imagine the CIA would pay me great sums of money to do remote viewing 🤣.

 

To me this is distinct from astral travel which I define as travel with my astral body on the astral plane. This sort of astral travel often happens in dreams, meditations, guided visualizations.

 

Could I use astral travel as @Deian mentioned? My experiences with Astral Travel are that the astral plane is a place with its own geography which often echoes material locations. That being said, for me to astral travel into a card -- I would have to find either the Astral neighborhood where the cards reside, or I would have to build such a place. Of course, that's the cool thing about the Astral plane. You can build stuff with your mind. I suspect there may already be a neighborhood where the archetypes of the cards reside, tho. In which case it would be a matter of finding that neighborhood and then finding the card I want to explore.

 

On 10/3/2024 at 2:39 PM, Rose Lalonde said:

... samadhi, and being more used to Buddhist meditation, I do find that the image of the card falls away at a certain point. In fact, everything I conceive of by conventional means falls away eventually, leaving all encompassing Oneness ...

Yes this boundless state of oneness I know what you mean.

 

That is different than a *samadhi moment with a card.* I suppose I'm using the term samadhi in a non-conventional way. I mean it's a moment when I'm totally absorbed into the consciousness of the card. It's like a bolt of awareness through my whole bodymind and beyond my bodymind too. Myself and the card's archetype are One. But not necessarily One With the Whole Universe. If that makes sense.

Edited October 5, 2024 by Misterei

[Deian]

While I can't know for sure, I can say that that is how it starts for a lot of people from what I have seen. Seeing their body and/or the room from above. Then either it doesn't happen again or it continues and it gets longer and more stable. In the second case eventually they start interacting with the room, can pick up items, can do stuff that they shouldn't be able to do if they were Out of Body in the physical dense world.
As far as we know, if another person observes the room at that point will just see them sleeping, there won't be floating items in the air.

 

If we consider that Monroe had researched this a lot more then the Orders ever did, then the people from the Phase seems to have researched it a lot more then Monroe did. And while I don't view the explanation of what happens fully the way they view it, it does make sense to use their term for this states, and that would be "The Phase". If we do that, then we can say "the phase" can show incredible capacity of mimicking our waking reality.
That is also one of the greatest obstacles in practice, so called "false awakening". We wake up, we think we are fully awake so no point trying to "separate" or use techniques, then after fully awakening we figure out we have been in "the phase" the whole time it just looked like our room. That has happened so many times for me that I haven't even counted them.

Then meditation is just meditation. Body is not asleep so none of this is valid for it. Unless one falls asleep - then body is asleep and all this could become valid, yet isn't connected to the meditation itself.

So in this way of structure it O.B.E - one seems to always be somewhere else, at least I don't have reasons to think one can be in dense physical world, currently. There may be variety of other phenomenons and states when one is picking up information from the physical world... But I have some doubts they would directly take it from there, would imagine they take it from the same place we are in in O.B. E. and that is one of the reasons for variaty of distortion in divination.So there may be other states or someone may be able to send part of themselves in the physical world, but that does not seem to be what people mean by O.B. E. as O.B. Es seem to all fall into what is described as astral projection so far.

Astral Projection - kinda same as all types of O.B. E. although are we in astral world is still unclear. I'm open to the idea we may be, but I have reasons to think there are more... "spaces" that need to be open up where we are to be able to figure out what exactly is happening.

This coutns many other experience with it, though, Near Death Experience(as type of OBE) lucid dreaming(as type of OBE) etc. all under the umbrella of the "Phase states" terminology as well. This seems to be valid. As again, the orders went in great lengths describing very different working states and worlds, but at this point it seems most of them didn't experience that in this way, they just used imagination/guided and non guided meditation and wrote what they came up with. None of it valid for OBE, however, as that requires a lot more complex stuff to happen.

[Aeon418]

A little bit off topic, but Clairvoyance on a symbol is a good "stepping stone" practice that most people can do with very little practice. Simply stare at a symbol until it creates a retinal afterimage. Transfer this image to a light or white surface and then close the eyes. Then use the afterimage as a doorway through which you will yourself to pass through. This can be amplified by a physical gesture if needed. Whether you subsequently experience visual imagery or just feelings and sensations, this is an "astral" experience of the chosen symbol, which could be something as simple as a tattwa or as complicated as a Tarot card. Intensification of the experience can be obtained by the vocalization of sympathetic "words" that resonate with the chosen symbol. When you feel you've had enough, simply will yourself back through the same door.

 

Ideally it is highly beneficial (practically required) to use some form of banishing ritual or clearing technique before and after. The latter is particularly important to avoid any problems with unwanted, lingering sensations or feelings.

[Misterei]

10 hours ago, Deian said:

While I can't know for sure, I can say that that is how it starts for a lot of people from what I have seen. Seeing their body and/or the room from above.

To me this experience was quite distinct from what I call astral travel.

This type of OBE my *whole* awareness was outside my body but it was still in *real* physical places. My house for example.

 

The idea of astral travel with the astral body on the astral plane is that a *fragment* of my full awareness [my astral body] is traveling in a different dimension. It has landmarks in common with 3D physical reality but it can also be quite different. For example I couldn't use my astral awareness to remote view and see exactly what a certain person is doing on the physical plane. Like fly to their house and know they were kneading bread dough in their kitchen at exactly 9am.

 

I might run into friends on the astral, but the image I'm interacting with is a fragment of their awareness [their astral body]. We have a conversation on the astral -- but on the physical plane they were taking a nap or walking their dog in that exact moment. Sometimes it bleeds through to the physical -- the person calls me 15 minutes later and says I was just thinking about you. But this is quite different than visiting my house out of body in real time and seeing me on the couch with my cat at exactly 10a.

 

7 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

A little bit off topic, but Clairvoyance on a symbol is a good "stepping stone" practice that most people can do with very little practice. Simply stare at a symbol until it creates a retinal afterimage. Transfer this image to a light or white surface and then close the eyes. Then use the afterimage as a doorway through which you will yourself to pass through.

To me this corresponds with the yogic practice of dharana to explore Tarot cards. I use similar methods. What you mention is a practice I would consider dharana with a card.

Edited October 6, 2024 by Misterei

[Deian]

51 minutes ago, Misterei said:

To me this experience was quite distinct from what I call astral travel.

This type of OBE my *whole* awareness was outside my body but it was still in *real* physical places. My house for example.

 

The idea of astral travel with the astral body on the astral plane is that a *fragment* of my full awareness [my astral body] is traveling in a different dimension. It has landmarks in common with 3D physical reality but it can also be quite different. For example I couldn't use my astral awareness to remote view and see exactly what a certain person is doing on the physical plane. Like fly to their house and know they were kneading bread dough in their kitchen at exactly 9am.

 

I might run into friends on the astral, but the image I'm interacting with is a fragment of their awareness [their astral body]. We have a conversation on the astral -- but on the physical plane they were taking a nap or walking their dog in that exact moment. Sometimes it bleeds through to the physical -- the person calls me 15 minutes later and says I was just thinking about you. But this is quite different than visiting my house out of body in real time and seeing me on the couch with my cat at exactly 10a.

Aha, I see what you mean. Then sure, yea, if we define it like that astral projection is done in meditation, while OBE still is not.

 

 

 

[Rose Lalonde]

Of all the things to do with tarot, I find the experience of pathworking with tarot on the hermetic Tree of Life the most difficult put into words. Crowley has a simple quote in LXV for pathworking via the middle pillar: "One mounteth unto the Crown by the moon and by the Sun, and by the arrow, and by the Foundation, and by the dark home of the stars from the black earth." Maybe it's my Buddhist 'middle way' background, but I love this quote.

 

In lieu of trying to communicate with words about it, I drew a deck, and made a picture of Crowley's sentence.  He starts at the top with Kether, and moves down via the Priestess, the 6s & Princes (sun/Tiphareth), then Art aka Temperance, the 9s (Yesod, called Foundation), the Universe aka World, and finally the 10's & Princesses (earth/Malkuth).  -- But I drew it with an emphasis on pathworking up beginning with the Princess of Disks and ending with the Priestess and crown at top for Kether.

 

(side cards on grey are only context, not related to side pillars. ) 

 

 

 

(most of the Princess was cut off to form this image):

 

Edited April 2 by Rose Lalonde
typo