Deciphering Waite

[katrinka]

(Warning: purple prose!) This is a thread for trying to make sense of some of the things in the PKT. It's a beginner book, but it's peppered with cryptic jabberwocky. I always just took from it what I needed to read the cards and skipped over the rest. But it's best to be sure...

I was reading over the PKT and came across a bit that I always skipped because it never made sense to me: "that desire which is not in Nature, but by which Nature is sanctified" - what in the blue hell is he talking about? What desires does anyone have that are "not in Nature"? Even religious impulses are part of nature, that stuff is hardwired into us. Different isolated populations always came up with religions, independent of each other. And what desire sanctifies nature? Does nature even need something to "sanctify" it?

Reddit doesn't seem to have a satisfactory answer. Not that I expected them to, lol. They talk about 2 of Cups meanings, but the question isn't about the card meaning, it's about that particular phrase. One commenter went as far as to say something homophobic. Ack. Nature is definitely not homophobic. (But that's another topic.)

Waite says a lot of vague things like that. I really think he was just being pompous and bombastic. It's hard to take this guy 100% seriously. 🤣



Or maybe he just has a different definition of "nature" than I do.

Am I missing something?

[akiva]

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

Or maybe he just has a different definition of "nature" than I do.

My take on this is that it's a reference to sex for fun rather than procreation. The "desire not in nature" is to have sex for pleasure rather than what nature (allegedly) sanctified it for, which is apparently only to create more people. And don't you dare have a good time! 

 

Waite seemed a bit of a kill joy too, so it makes sense that he had these views. 😆

 

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

It's hard to take this guy 100% seriously. 🤣

He looks like he's auditioning for the role of pregnant Mary in a children's nativity play 🤣

[Raggydoll]

I believe it’s a reference to the alchemical wedding. I think the entire depiction is one of the sacred union. The desire is for matter to unite with spirit (to rise above nature), and this union then sanctifies nature (as above, so below). 

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, akiva said:

My take on this is that it's a reference to sex for fun rather than procreation. The "desire not in nature" is to have sex for pleasure rather than what nature (allegedly) sanctified it for, which is apparently only to create more people. And don't you dare have a good time! 

 

Waite seemed a bit of a kill joy too, so it makes sense that he had these views. 😆

That's possible.
And it's probably why Crowley didn't like him. 🤣

 

2 hours ago, akiva said:

He looks like he's auditioning for the role of pregnant Mary in a children's nativity play 🤣

 

Yes!
If he had a donkey you could put him on the lawn for the holidays.
I don't trust that shepherd's hook. Don't get too close... 😬
 

1 hour ago, Raggydoll said:

I believe it’s a reference to the alchemical wedding. I think the entire depiction is one of the sacred union. The desire is for matter to unite with spirit (to rise above nature), and this union then sanctifies nature (as above, so below). 

That makes sense.
Waite was a Christian, too. They have this concept of the Bride (the church) uniting with the Christ. And they consider this world to be "fallen" so in their view, matter needs to be sanctified.

You don't see that in Buddhism, Native American spirituality, Hinduism, Paganism, Judaism...not even Islam. If the world and mankind aren't "fallen", there's no need for salvation.

"God against man. Man against God. Man against nature. Nature against man. Nature against God. God against nature. Very funny religion!"
- Dr. D.T. Suzuki via Joseph Campbell

So I think you're both right. Matter uniting with spirit, but try not to enjoy it!

 

 

 

 

[akiva]

9 minutes ago, katrinka said:

That's possible.
And it's probably why Crowley didn't like him. 🤣

Oh to of been a fly on the wall in those times.

 

10 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Yes!
If he had a donkey you could put him on the lawn for the holidays.
I don't trust that shepherd's hook. Don't get too close... 😬

I can imagine him standing up in front of his school singing "away in a manger, no crib for a bed..." 😆

 

Is that was it is? I thought it was the kind of pole you use to support a washing line 

[katrinka]

6 hours ago, akiva said:

I can imagine him standing up in front of his school singing "away in a manger, no crib for a bed..." 😆

 

Is that was it is? I thought it was the kind of pole you use to support a washing line 

 
Maybe it's his stripper pole.

[Raggydoll]

30 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Maybe it's his stripper pole.

 

I think it’s very clear that he is wearing his fanciest High-Priestess-style divination dress, and it’s one that he made himself, from two bed sheets and a curtain. The curtain rod broke in the process of making this dress, and he is now giving it a new life as a hermits staff! 😁
 

Also, he’s not fat, just fluffy ! ☺️

 

 

[Scandinavianhermit]

13 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

This doesn't seem more out of the ordinary than any Golden Dawn, Thelemic or Druidic official garb.

 

As for 'desire not in nature', I vote for the desire for divine union (Unio Mystica). 

[Scandinavianhermit]

This Neodruid ceremony, six years after the death of Waite, shed some light on sartorial standards among those esoterically inclined in UK. Waite is in no way unique.

 

https://youtu.be/BW_WuxHNbYM?feature=shared

 

This installation of a new Archdruid in the Welsh Gorsedd looks similar:

 

https://youtu.be/_GTEsR0zdgU?feature=shared

 

Edited March 25 by Scandinavianhermit
another link

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

This doesn't seem more out of the ordinary than any Golden Dawn, Thelemic or Druidic official garb.

While all ritual attire looks inherently ridiculous to some degree, the others manage to retain at least some dignity. Even Crowley, who didn't seem to have a problem looking like a jackass for the camera, isn't giving smelly-old-man-in-Bo-Peep-drag vibes.

[katrinka]

3 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

 

I think it’s very clear that he is wearing his fanciest High-Priestess-style divination dress, and it’s one that he made himself, from two bed sheets and a curtain. The curtain rod broke in the process of making this dress, and he is now giving it a new life as a hermits staff! 😁
 

Also, he’s not fat, just fluffy ! ☺️

 

 

Who is this woman transported from the 70's with her awful wedge haircut? I WILL NOT COMPLY!
I will acknowledge the fat. Weight gain is normal when you're preggers.
He's growing a homunculus in there.

[akiva]

15 hours ago, katrinka said:

Maybe it's his stripper pole.

Lol, might be worth a bit more practice, and longer screws 😅

 

14 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I think it’s very clear that he is wearing his fanciest High-Priestess-style divination dress, and it’s one that he made himself, from two bed sheets and a curtain. The curtain rod broke in the process of making this dress, and he is now giving it a new life as a hermits staff! 😁
 

Also, he’s not fat, just fluffy ! ☺️

Do you think Waite spent his free time doing this? I know I would 😆

 

 

11 hours ago, katrinka said:

Even Crowley, who didn't seem to have a problem looking like a jackass for the camera, isn't giving smelly-old-man-in-Bo-Peep-drag vibes.

He looks really good in his attire. That second picture is amazing. It just feels authentic. A lot better than Preggers-Bo-Peep 🤣