Wanderer Posted September 20, 2018 Posted September 20, 2018 So, the Green Man. Equivalent to the Emperor in RW decks. I confess that I struggle with this card rather a lot, both in terms of the image, and the role that it plays in the deck. I've only recently realised what I was finding offputting about it, but it's that it doesn't actually match my impressions of what the Green Man is, or represents. I very rarely see this card in readings, and perhaps my confusion over it is part of the reason; therefore, I thought I'd try to analyse it in the hope that it would become more approachable. The image is of the Green Man bending over a cauldron, holding a horn (the 'horn of plenty' - I don't think this symbol appears elsewhere in the deck), and a spear. He is staring intently at the concoction, which the book suggests holds the power of fecundity and regeneration. The potency of this work is reiterated by the Cerne Abbas Giant in the background, a celebration of power (separately, this represents empowerment as the Five of Bows) and the male aspect of fertility. So far, so good, as far as the meaning goes: this is the Green Man as the source of life's continuity, the aspect of the wild that gives rise to itself. The expression is fierce; there's a wild joy there, and a definite sense of the untamed and untamable. Why do I have problems with the card? I think it's that it is too literal and too human, in the idea of a cauldron (cast with human figures, no less), the very human hillside carving behind, and the spear and horn of plenty (a classical human motif). This Green Man is shown as being partly human, and with a human heritage; he is a bridge between the worlds of folk and forest, and in some real sense, is portrayed as being part of both. In contrast, the meaning of the figure is that of the heart of the Wildwood; he is the centre of how the forest regenerates, and is the originator of all that is wild, untamed, and green. He is not human; he is the opposite of the human world, not a bridge towards it. The idea that a semi-human has mastery over the wildness that this deck celebrates seems wrong, to me, and doesn't match my impressions of what the Green Man is, and has always been. There are lots of websites out there describing theories of the origins of the figure, but none really manage it. Links to Dionysus are a little sketchy at best, and the later appearance that is familiar to us seems to emerge from nowhere. Unusually for mythological figures with such a presence in architecture and art, there are no stories attached to the Green Man; he is a watchful presence, but never (to my knowledge, but I'm not an expert!) were his actions described. This is part of his mystique: there is a real sense that the face we know is a mask, a humanisation of a deeper reality that cannot be understood by mere mortals. The reality can't be drawn or described, but we have given him a symbolic face, so that we can pretend that we see him. Is the Green Man really an entity at all, or is he a symbol of the regenerative force of wild nature, that self-sustaining and unstoppable perpetuity? The one role he is consistently given, though, is as a fierce protector of the forest, and this suggests an independence and a distinct will. The horn of plenty is to the fore in this card, but the spear is there as well, ready for use if needed. He reacts to that need with a ferocious determination that borders on joy; there is a real sense of fulfillment in protecting the vulnerable and maintaining the boundaries. This joy is as powerful as that in seeing new life burst forth in the spring, because both aspects are part of his essence. Joy in wildness, and in power in generating and maintaining that wildness, are two sides of the same. Spearing interlopers brings as much joy as helping an acorn put forth leaves. As Martin Donnelly ('The Green Man') put it, he is the 'dancer in the storm'. In contrast to that, the old English folk song 'Jack in the Green' regards him as an annual; with each autumn he dies, and is then reborn. "Now, Jack in the Green is a very strange man... though he dies every autumn, he's born in the spring!" This suggests that he is not a constant figure, but rather an emergent property of the natural cycle; with the leaves he appears, and dies away when they fall. Either way, this, to me, is not someone who is partly human, who uses human symbolism, and who can make the Wildwood comprehensible to us. Rather, he is some essential property of the Wildwood; something so wild and potent that we would be better seeing the forest as a bridge between us and him. This is what emerges from the card, for me: he is the force behind the forest, and the power that it wields. He is growth and vigour, and the forest's own protection; he is the boar's tusks, and the hawk's beak; the storm and the lightning, and the flood. But also, he is the bubbling well, the seedling's strength in reaching for the sun, the bramble's spines and the dark questing of the fungal mycelium beneath the ground. He is not interested in maintaining artificial balances, because his world doesn't need them. It doesn't need our human ideas of cauldrons and carvings into hills. Given the chance, and the will and vigour, it will thrive because it is Life. Phew. :o OK, so that's clarified for me why I don't think this card sits easily in the deck. I'd have liked to see a much more amorphous Green Man, a hidden, mysterious one that flits everywhere within the tangled wild. But perhaps that's just me. I can see that this is very much an abstraction of what the Green Man represents, and who he really is, and having recognised it, I can put it aside and concentrate on what it is a representation of. It is interesting how the discussions of this card that I've seen have gone the other way; they've taken the anthropomorphism, and run with it, so that he becomes some corporeal sort of Forest King. If that works for you, then great; but it doesn't work for me. I think this has helped me, at least. The test is whether he starts to appear in readings, now that I feel I've unlocked his essence somewhat... --------------------------------------- Any comments, examples and interpretations very welcome! :)
Purplemystic Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 My feelings of The Green Man I see as the darker aspect of nature. The side of nature to be tamed.. Perhaps wrong word... Yet has strength, drive, focus and beauty still. Organiser perhaps..
Wanderer Posted November 20, 2018 Author Posted November 20, 2018 My feelings of The Green Man I see as the darker aspect of nature. The side of nature to be tamed.. Perhaps wrong word... Yet has strength, drive, focus and beauty still. Organiser perhaps.. Interesting! :) I reckon we're mostly seeing the same thing, but I think there are differences here that I'd like to explore. For instance, I don't see the organising aspect, personally; rather, he's the raw power of Nature, its will to live and grow. It's almost chaos, for me, driven by needs and desires. Could you expand on this, maybe? Also, is this aspect darker, or just more fundamental? When I see a dandelion forcing its way through a pavement, to me it is wonderful: the need to live overcomes our petty attempts to tame the world. This is what he represents, I feel. He's not something to be tamed, but rather he is the untameable. He is what happens to our cities when we move out. There's dark and light together in this; one being lives at the expense of another, after all... but the principle itself is neither, to me. He is what he is, and we only assign good or evil to his effects in relation to specifics of how they affect us... I find it so hard to put some of this into words, but does that make sense to you?
Purplemystic Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 Yes I understand so will ponder those aspects further, meditate further on this. The organiser aspect.. This shows by the way his facial expression looks into the cauldron. How he holds his staff and gesture of his hand. Like determined energy. On a mission. He knows exactly what he's doing.
Wanderer Posted November 21, 2018 Author Posted November 21, 2018 Yes I understand so will ponder those aspects further, meditate further on this. The organiser aspect.. This shows by the way his facial expression looks into the cauldron. How he holds his staff and gesture of his hand. Like determined energy. On a mission. He knows exactly what he's doing. Thanks for the explanation, and yes, I do see what you're getting at! I actually agree with the 'determined energy' aspect completely, but I have the impression that "he" is driven by need and native instinct, rather than being a planner or organiser. I think this is probably because I'm seeing him more as a force of Nature than as an individual character... It doesn't help that the mythological figure himself is so poorly defined! ;)
Purplemystic Posted November 22, 2018 Posted November 22, 2018 Yes I understand so will ponder those aspects further, meditate further on this. The organiser aspect.. This shows by the way his facial expression looks into the cauldron. How he holds his staff and gesture of his hand. Like determined energy. On a mission. He knows exactly what he's doing. Thanks for the explanation, and yes, I do see what you're getting at! I actually agree with the 'determined energy' aspect completely, but I have the impression that "he" is driven by need and native instinct, rather than being a planner or organiser. I think this is probably because I'm seeing him more as a force of Nature than as an individual character... It doesn't help that the mythological figure himself is so poorly defined! ;) Understand now. Yes not clearly defined this will help me look at Green Man in another light. ☺
ilweran Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 I like what you're saying about the Greenman. He's like Japanese Knotweed. It doesn't matter to the knotweed whether it's breaking up lava rock or the foundations of your house. It does what it does and so does he. (There was a lot of the stuff where I used to live. Amazing plant, if slightly scary when you see a large expanse of it with nothing else growing. You can almost hear it grow!)
Wanderer Posted November 24, 2018 Author Posted November 24, 2018 I like what you're saying about the Greenman. He's like Japanese Knotweed. It doesn't matter to the knotweed whether it's breaking up lava rock or the foundations of your house. It does what it does and so does he. (There was a lot of the stuff where I used to live. Amazing plant, if slightly scary when you see a large expanse of it with nothing else growing. You can almost hear it grow!) Thank you, and that's a great analogy. I know what you mean about Knotweed... but luckily it's edible, if the tips are cooked like rhubarb. The caveat is that I believe one needs a knotweed disposal licence to do that, though... ;)
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