Tarot of Ceremonial Magick. Thoughts?

[FLizarraga]

I have been bingeing on Lon Milo Duquette's videos on the Thoth deck (courtesy of our very own EmpyreanKnight  X/ ), and reading his delicious memoir My Life with the Spirits. The man just oozes charisma and is a born raconteur. I confess he fascinates me.

 

 

I do have a few books of his that I haven't gotten around to read, among them the companion book for the Tarot of Ceremonial Magick. And I'm starting to feel intrigued by this deck, which, alas, seems hopelessly OOP. (Except for a pirate, made in Ukraine edition that sells on eBay for about US $40. Oddly enough for a pirate edition, they openly admit it's not the original.)

 

 

Does anyone here have it? (I'm betting gregory has a copy...  ;) ) Thoughts? Pros? Cons?

[PathWalker]

I too would like a copy of the deck, but haven't because it's not really a system I follow. ( Thoth/OTO based)

I met Lon once at a conference - he described the deck as having all the little "cheat boxes" on it, with the symbols on, to help him (you) remember the attributions of the cards.  :)

Sorry I can't say what it's like to work with - does t appeal, that's the best guide? Do you already use a thoth style deck?

 

best wishes

PathWalker

[FLizarraga]

I do use the Thoth deck and some Thoth-based decks like the Vampyres, though my background is much more Marseille/Rider-Waite. The Thoth deck speaks to me at a very visceral level, and I have always thought that was what Crowley (and Lady Harris) intended, aside from all the other possible levels.

[Oink]

I have been bingeing on Lon Milo Duquette's videos on the Thoth deck (courtesy of our very own EmpyreanKnight  X/ ), and reading his delicious memoir My Life with the Spirits. The man just oozes charisma and is a born raconteur. I confess he fascinates me.

 

Yes, he does, and he’s at least as enthralling in person!  He visits our local OTO sometimes and he’s a great speaker. If you have one of his decks/books, he’s usually happy to sign it and draw you a cute cartoon. :-)

 

Does anyone here have it? (I'm betting gregory has a copy...  ;) ) Thoughts? Pros? Cons?

I used to have both the USG edition and the later Thelesis Aura edition, but at some point I parted with the latter because that version of the cards was too thick and overly plastic-feeling.

 

IMO, picking pros vs. cons of this deck is like deciding whether the glass is half full or half empty because it really depends on what you’re after.

 

It’s a hand-drawn deck by an initiate in an order as part of his studies/Work, and the drawings reflect that.  This deck will almost certainly never beat out the Thoth, Via, Tabula Mundi, etc. on pure artistic merit, but it’s obvious that a great deal of thought, meditation, and effort was expended on its creation.

 

It very faithfully represents all the appropriate correspondences in a very straightforward way, so it makes a great study deck or reference deck.

 

There are several esoteric Golden Dawn decks, but the Tarot of Ceremonial Magick is unapologetically Thelemic.  And unlike Crowley‘s BoT, LMD is pretty good about maintaining a consistent set of correspondences and doesn’t waffle back and forth on them.

 

Edited to add: if you have any specific questions about particular cards or would like any pictures, I’ll be happy to help!

[Cookie]

Hi yes, i've just bought a Cicero Golden Dawn pack (only my 2nd pack) which is i think "unapologetically Thelemic",(although i haven't had a proper look at them) that I'm just going to use for ceremony and talismanic work.  Starting tonite as it goes....quite looking forward to it

[Oink]

Hi yes, i've just bought a Cicero Golden Dawn pack (only my 2nd pack) which is i think "unapologetically Thelemic",(although i haven't had a proper look at them)

 

I would call the Cicero’s decks “esoteric Golden Dawn” decks because the cards reflect that order’s traditions, beliefs, and correspondences. 

 

Crowley was a Golden Dawn initiate and took a lot of underlying theory from that order when he left.  He claimed to have received the Book of the Law via the Stele of Revealing in Egypt.  In his deck, he added in ties to Egyptian cosmology: Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit, etc..  His changes to the traditional card renderings reflect his Thelemic beliefs: the last judgement would be old aeon thinking, so instead the Thoth deck has The Aeon at card XX.  And then there’s the sex magic...

 

 

[Cookie]

Hi yes, i've just bought a Cicero Golden Dawn pack (only my 2nd pack) which is i think "unapologetically Thelemic",(although i haven't had a proper look at them)

 

I would call the Cicero’s decks “esoteric Golden Dawn” decks because the cards reflect that order’s traditions, beliefs, and correspondences. 

 

Crowley was a Golden Dawn initiate and took a lot of underlying theory from that order when he left.  He claimed to have received the Book of the Law via the Stele of Revealing in Egypt.  In his deck, he added in ties to Egyptian cosmology: Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit, etc..  His changes to the traditional card renderings reflect his Thelemic beliefs: the last judgement would be old aeon thinking, so instead the Thoth deck has The Aeon at card XX.  And then there’s the sex magic...

 

Hi yes, i made a mistake saying that....i somehow got Regardie mixed up with Crowley of all people (although i know he was Crowley's secretary for awhile)  It was early when i wrote that... 6am here!

 

Yes, i chose the Cicero deck for talisman work etc because they were the first to introduce me to the Qabbalah & in language that i understood ... i've since read many other books by Regardie, Fortune, Waite etc on the subject but without them i wouldn't of understood a thing. 

 

In your opinion is Cicero's Golden Dawn a good deck to utilise in this kind of work?  Not too sure about the deck 

[Oink]

 

Yes, i chose the Cicero deck for talisman work etc because they were the first to introduce me to the Qabbalah & in language that i understood ... i've since read many other books by Regardie, Fortune, Waite etc on the subject but without them i wouldn't of understood a thing. 

 

In your opinion is Cicero's Golden Dawn a good deck to utilise in this kind of work?  Not too sure about the deck

 

I think that deck was designed with such purpose in mind, so I think you’ve made a solid choice.

 

In the end it’s the magus who provides the magic.  IMO whatever speaks to you as a useful tool is “good”.

[Cookie]

 

Yes, i chose the Cicero deck for talisman work etc because they were the first to introduce me to the Qabbalah & in language that i understood ... i've since read many other books by Regardie, Fortune, Waite etc on the subject but without them i wouldn't of understood a thing. 

 

In your opinion is Cicero's Golden Dawn a good deck to utilise in this kind of work?  Not too sure about the deck

 

I think that deck was designed with such purpose in mind, so I think you’ve made a solid choice.

 

In the end it’s the magus who provides the magic.  IMO whatever speaks to you as a useful tool is “good”.

 

Just as i wrote & sent it, i realised exactly that!

[Ncharge]

I have this deck. The artwork is not great. But you use your decks for spell work. In one of his books he describes the rather intensive ritual he performed after the deck was printed. It took DAYS and he energetically connected each card to the appropriate entities and energies. He then did a ritual to tie that mother deck to every every copy of the deck. Basically, you are getting a deck that is enchanted to draw on all the right energies for both readings and ritual work. And the deck does have a certain energy about it. I would not part with mine for anything.

[Cookie]

I have this deck. The artwork is not great. But you use your decks for spell work. In one of his books he describes the rather intensive ritual he performed after the deck was printed. It took DAYS and he energetically connected each card to the appropriate entities and energies. He then did a ritual to tie that mother deck to every every copy of the deck. Basically, you are getting a deck that is enchanted to draw on all the right energies for both readings and ritual work. And the deck does have a certain energy about it. I would not part with mine for anything.

 

Okay, that's great to know Ncharge.  Yes, just gonna use them for magic work & the like.

 

I haven't had a proper look at them yet as they are still in the cellophane until I consecrate them this evening.  Can feel the energy though, and everything goes soft-focus when i pick them up.  Was concerned about the artwork but read the symbolism is amazers in them. 

 

Thanks for the post. 

[FLizarraga]

I have been bingeing on Lon Milo Duquette's videos on the Thoth deck (courtesy of our very own EmpyreanKnight  X/ ), and reading his delicious memoir My Life with the Spirits. The man just oozes charisma and is a born raconteur. I confess he fascinates me.

 

Yes, he does, and he’s at least as enthralling in person!  He visits our local OTO sometimes and he’s a great speaker. If you have one of his decks/books, he’s usually happy to sign it and draw you a cute cartoon. :-)

 

Does anyone here have it? (I'm betting gregory has a copy...  ;) ) Thoughts? Pros? Cons?

I used to have both the USG edition and the later Thelesis Aura edition, but at some point I parted with the latter because that version of the cards was too thick and overly plastic-feeling.

 

IMO, picking pros vs. cons of this deck is like deciding whether the glass is half full or half empty because it really depends on what you’re after.

 

It’s a hand-drawn deck by an initiate in an order as part of his studies/Work, and the drawings reflect that.  This deck will almost certainly never beat out the Thoth, Via, Tabula Mundi, etc. on pure artistic merit, but it’s obvious that a great deal of thought, meditation, and effort was expended on its creation.

 

It very faithfully represents all the appropriate correspondences in a very straightforward way, so it makes a great study deck or reference deck.

 

There are several esoteric Golden Dawn decks, but the Tarot of Ceremonial Magick is unapologetically Thelemic.  And unlike Crowley‘s BoT, LMD is pretty good about maintaining a consistent set of correspondences and doesn’t waffle back and forth on them.

 

Edited to add: if you have any specific questions about particular cards or would like any pictures, I’ll be happy to help!

 

 

You have a local OTO? I HATE you!  ;)

 

 

I like your description of the deck --it gave me an instant idea of what it's like. And I'd love to see some scans, if you don't mind. I haven't seen many images online, apart from the Lust card, which really speaks to me for some reason --the violet background? Her flaming hair? The lion head on the beast? Can't really tell.

[FLizarraga]

 

Yes, i chose the Cicero deck for talisman work etc because they were the first to introduce me to the Qabbalah & in language that i understood ... i've since read many other books by Regardie, Fortune, Waite etc on the subject but without them i wouldn't of understood a thing. 

 

In your opinion is Cicero's Golden Dawn a good deck to utilise in this kind of work?  Not too sure about the deck

 

I think that deck was designed with such purpose in mind, so I think you’ve made a solid choice.

 

In the end it’s the magus who provides the magic.  IMO whatever speaks to you as a useful tool is “good”.

 

Just as i wrote & sent it, i realised exactly that!

 

 

  I so agree with both of you. I have been exposed to very different magic traditions from very different cultures, and the common denominator in all those cases is that each one of those magi uses the tools they're given by their culture, and they work equally well in each case, no matter how disparate.

 

[FLizarraga]

I have this deck. The artwork is not great. But you use your decks for spell work. In one of his books he describes the rather intensive ritual he performed after the deck was printed. It took DAYS and he energetically connected each card to the appropriate entities and energies. He then did a ritual to tie that mother deck to every every copy of the deck. Basically, you are getting a deck that is enchanted to draw on all the right energies for both readings and ritual work. And the deck does have a certain energy about it. I would not part with mine for anything.

 

 

That. Is. So. Cool.

[Cookie]

 

Yes, i chose the Cicero deck for talisman work etc because they were the first to introduce me to the Qabbalah & in language that i understood ... i've since read many other books by Regardie, Fortune, Waite etc on the subject but without them i wouldn't of understood a thing. 

 

In your opinion is Cicero's Golden Dawn a good deck to utilise in this kind of work?  Not too sure about the deck

 

I think that deck was designed with such purpose in mind, so I think you’ve made a solid choice.

 

In the end it’s the magus who provides the magic.  IMO whatever speaks to you as a useful tool is “good”.

 

Just as i wrote & sent it, i realised exactly that!

 

 

  I so agree with both of you. I have been exposed to very different magic traditions from very different cultures, and the common denominator in all those cases is that each one of those magi uses the tools they're given by their culture, and they work equally well in each case, no matter how disparate.

 

Yes Flizarraga too right, as far as I can tell most magic cultures & religions lead the same way ... towards enlightenment.  I've only recently found this out, it's truly amazing & tells me that literally anything in this life is possible.  Mind Blown!

[Oink]

And I'd love to see some scans, if you don't mind.

Sorry, no scanner at home so here’s some plain ol’ photographs.

 

If there’s any particular cards you’d like to see, just let me know. Here are six respresenting our current decan and the next:

 

[Le Fanu]

I have this deck. I have a first edition of the deck and signed copy of the companion book. Of course I have enormous respect for Duquette’s scholarship but this one sadly doesn’t tick any boxes for me. I find it unappealing aesthetically - so thats immediately a no-starter for me (compare with the Tabua Mundi) - and I honestly think that if a deck is solely a vessel for layers of esoteric theory, then it won’t read well for me as it will lack the artistic flair that allows it to bounce off your intuition. There is something so dry, awkward and scrawled about the artwork. And all the reading and memorizing you’d have to do - means zero spontaneity for me. Sorry, it’s a no from me. It’s a deck that sits on my shelf and I know will never, ever be taken out of its box again.

[FLizarraga]

And I'd love to see some scans, if you don't mind.

Sorry, no scanner at home so here’s some plain ol’ photographs.

 

If there’s any particular cards you’d like to see, just let me know. Here are six respresenting our current decan and the next:

 

 

Thanks, Oink! These pictures are great. I like the Magus and the 8 of Wands. The others are way too primitive, and not in a good way. Like you said, it seems a great deck for reading or meditation, not so much for reading.

[FLizarraga]

I have this deck. I have a first edition of the deck and signed copy of the companion book. Of course I have enormous respect for Duquette’s scholarship but this one sadly doesn’t tick any boxes for me. I find it unappealing aesthetically - so thats immediately a no-starter for me (compare with the Tabua Mundi) - and I honestly think that if a deck is solely a vessel for layers of esoteric theory, then it won’t read well for me as it will lack the artistic flair that allows it to bounce off your intuition. There is something so dry, awkward and scrawled about the artwork. And all the reading and memorizing you’d have to do - means zero spontaneity for me. Sorry, it’s a no from me. It’s a deck that sits on my shelf and I know will never, ever be taken out of its box again.

 

 

I hear you, Le Fanu. It seems very unpretentious, aesthetically speaking, and meant for study or ritual work, not really for reading. I regret now that I got rid of the (even uglier, if that's possible) Golden Dawn Magical Tarot, though fortunately I kept the book.

 

 

At this point in my (so-called) studies, I'm less interested in memorizing all these correspondences --particularly when some (or a lot) of them tend to change from one author or school to another -- or even in understanding them, and more in using them as a sort of background against which to look at the specific cards of a specific deck in a specific reading. It's hard to explain in a better way.