RWS vs. Thoth systems

[River]

Hello there. :) Just wanted to ask, do you prefer the RWS or the Thoth, as a system, not as an individual deck?

What is the difference, besides the renaming and reordering of some cards?

[Rose Lalonde]

I think the biggest difference between the two decks is how people work with and talk about them. Both Crowley and Waite were Golden Dawn members who learned a system there. For example, they both kept the same astrology (with the possible exception of the RWS Knights/Kings). You can see it in the astrological symbols on the Thoth cards and in intermittent symbols in the RWS like rams on the Emperor's throne, Venus on the Empress, the moon on the 2 of Swords...

 

Crowley was very up front about all the underpinnings and added Thelema. Waite was interested in Christian Mysticism. Colman Smith communicated via scene; Harris relied more on projective synthetic geometry. Great decks are unique, so that's all good!

 

But as far as the system... the decks are siblings, both heavily inspired by the Golden Dawn system before they went their own way. There's plenty of overlap in meaning because of that, though of course they did have different interpretations of some of the cards, like the 6 of Swords mentioned above.

 

How people work with them, though, seems to be pretty different. To generalize wildly, I think often with the Thoth if you don't want to include the astrology, alchemy and hermetic Qabalah that were the underpinnings of the GD system, you might sometimes feel a bit like an outsider talking to many other Thoth readers. Whereas with the RWS if you do want to include all of that, you might sometimes feel a bit out of step when talking to many other RWS readers.

 

I enjoy both decks for different situations. And I think each has given me insights into the other, like looking at something from a different angle. Currently, if I could only keep one, it would be the Thoth (well, technically it would be the very Thoth-faithful Tabula Mundi). But if I had to give up the RWS, I would miss the scenes. Thankfully I don't have to choose.  ;D

[Jewel]

I am going to piggy-back on Rose Lalonde[/member]'s post add a couple of more basic differences I picked up on when I started exploring this:

 

- The positioning of Strength and Justice in the Major Arcana is swapped - so in the Thoth system Justice is 8 and Strength is 11.

 

- The structure of the court cards is different, in the Thoth system you have Knight, Queen, Prince, Princess.  If you are into elemental correspondences of the courts at all the Knight is associated with the element Fire, whereas the Kings in the RWS systems are Air.  So I found the dynamics in the court cards a little different.

 

Like Rose said, the systems are siblings, and both derived from the Golden Dawn.  I have decks from both systems that I love and use, but I tend to gravitate more towards the RWS based decks because I am more comfortable with the RWS court structure, and it feels more natural for me to have strength come before justice because I feel that in order to truly be Just/Fair you will need strength.  Again, these are just personal preferences.  Again, I have not dug deep into Qabalah or Astrology, which is where I believe the Thoth shines a little brighter.  Again personal opinion.  :)

[FLizarraga]

 

Crowley was very up front about all the underpinnings and added Thelema. Waite was interested in Christian Mysticism. Colman Smith communicated via scene; Harris relied more on projective synthetic geometry. Great decks are unique, so that's all good!

 

 

 

THIS. I mean, I agree with your whole post, but I had never seen this particular difference expressed so clearly.

 

And I do agree with Jewel's whole post as well.