RWS Lo Scarabeo confusion

[River]

So I am on the search for a new RWS deck since I've grown more interested on it. I looked at the online store of the only shop that I know of in my country that offers a variety of tarot decks, and I saw the Pamela Colman Smith Lo Scarabeo, and the photos were showing the one with the very vivid colours and typewriter font. Now, this deck, as far as I know, has been discontinued and replaced with a new version that has the more classic colours and a slightly different back, but goes by the same name. I emailed them to ask which version it is and asked specifically if they have the version with the brown or the version with the brown table on the box. They gave an answer that confused me, saying that since a year ago they have a version with black backings instead of the one with the blue flowers. ??? I don't get it. I think they mean that they have the Lo Scarabeo instead of the Original, but still they didn't tell me what version and maybe they haven't been informed about the difference, so they didn't get the question. I am especially interested in the discontinued version and if they still store that one (I think it's possible that they still have that one in stock) it would be a bargain at 23 euros. What would you do in that case?

 

Also, for you who already have the newer edition with Smith's calligraphy and the muted colours, how does it look like? Is it more like the Centennial or like the Rider version?

 

Thanks  :)

[Raggydoll]

I had the version you are looking for. I sold it because I could not get past the Pam B linework that it's based on. I have realized how much those details mean to me. But I did like the 'moody' coloring of it, so if you don't mind that the linework has been redrawn and is not as well done as the Pam A based versions (the centennial is a good example), then go for it. It's worth a chance. Would you not be able to return it if you receive the newer version? I believe the boxes are different so that you'd be able to tell which one it is without breaking the seal.

[Iona]

I've got the Tarot  of A E Waite Agm Urania, with the brown crackle backs. They are great, but don't have the PCS designed lettering on the cards. The quality is really good however and the colours are clear. I think they are Pam A, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure.

 

I had to buy them from a German tarot shop as I think there are copyright problems with them being sold in the US and UK.

 

If you don't mind the different Typeface, they are really nice.

[Le Fanu]

They did get the question - it’s you that didn’t get it [emoji1787] The blue backed rose and lilies version is the older discontinued one. The black (and red) backs are on the newer version. I doubt they’ve got one in stock. The world is full of sellers using the older stock photos and saying it’s the older one.  There was quite a rush for them a while ago and I doubt there are many - if any - left for sale first hand - but I could be wrong. The box is different- you can tell by the coloring of the Magician and HP. If they look pretty authentic and not “colored” - it’s the older version. Lovely colours on this one, such a shame about the typography. I like the newer darker more blotchy, daubed one - but I have so many lovely RWS decks that it’s not one I ever use but it is rather nice.

[River]

They did get the question - it’s you that didn’t get it [emoji1787] The blue backed rose and lilies version is the older discontinued one. The black (and red) backs are on the newer version. I doubt they’ve got one in stock. The world is full of sellers using the older stock photos and saying it’s the older one.  There was quite a rush for them a while ago and I doubt there are many - if any - left for sale first hand - but I could be wrong. The box is different- you can tell by the coloring of the Magician and HP. If they look pretty authentic and not “colored” - it’s the older version. Lovely colours on this one, such a shame about the typography. I like the newer darker more blotchy, daubed one - but I have so many lovely RWS decks that it’s not one I ever use but it is rather nice.

 

Now I'm even more confused. :P

I watched a video on YouTube and took a screenshot, where it shows the two versions of Lo Scarabeo I'm talking about. None of them seems to have a blue back. :-\

[River]

Raggydoll[/member] and Iona[/member] I've never heard of Pam A and Pam B, I thought the linework was all the same. ??? Can you tell me what's the difference?

[Raggydoll]

Raggydoll[/member] and Iona[/member] I've never heard of Pam A and Pam B, I thought the linework was all the same. ??? Can you tell me what's the difference?

 

There are actually even Pam C and Pam D too, but lets try and keep it simple. I will direct you to a site that has comparisons of all the early RWS editions and there you can read all about it. But basically the images on the cards has been redrawn and it is not very likely that it was done by Pamela the second time around. If you compare all the small details of the images, such as facial features, the rendering of animals and body parts, then yes you will be able to see a marked difference. The second rendering was clearly made by someone less talented than Pamela.

 

This will get you started: http://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/rider-waite/rider-waite-early-editions

And here is a close up comparison of some cards: http://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/rider-waite/details-compared

Look closely at the faces and of how that snake is rendered. You can barely see it in some versions and its face lacks detail. I also find that most people in the Pam-B has a bit of an angry look to them due to how their faces are drawn. It slightly shifts the mood of the deck. And it kind of looks like Eve has had a chin implant too  O:-)

[Raggydoll]

They did get the question - it’s you that didn’t get it [emoji1787] The blue backed rose and lilies version is the older discontinued one. The black (and red) backs are on the newer version. I doubt they’ve got one in stock. The world is full of sellers using the older stock photos and saying it’s the older one.  There was quite a rush for them a while ago and I doubt there are many - if any - left for sale first hand - but I could be wrong. The box is different- you can tell by the coloring of the Magician and HP. If they look pretty authentic and not “colored” - it’s the older version. Lovely colours on this one, such a shame about the typography. I like the newer darker more blotchy, daubed one - but I have so many lovely RWS decks that it’s not one I ever use but it is rather nice.

 

Now I'm even more confused. :P

I watched a video on YouTube and took a screenshot, where it shows the two versions of Lo Scarabeo I'm talking about. None of them seems to have a blue back. :-\

 

I'm confused too?! My deck did not have a blue back, it looked exactly as was depicted here. The only one I've seen with a blue lilies and roses pattern on the back is the so called Original Rider Waite tarot  :o

 

Oh, and Le Fanu[/member] I’m not sure I understand why it would be so funny even if River[/member] had misunderstood their answer and their answer had been correct?

[gregory]

If you want to get the blue-rose backed one from LoS - a year ago that was certainly the one supplied in their kit, with a book in Italian

 

KIT08 on their site. I CANNOT seem to get a direct link for the thing. It doesn't have the original font, but in my view it's their best colouring... It's under tarot kits. It's actually the only Waite/Smith up there now, except for the USG in Italian.

 

Raggydoll[/member] Leffy just has a warped sense of humour. Best to ignore it, as his Knowledge is Great ! :) (Hi Leffy !)

[Raggydoll]

If you want to get the blue-rose backed one from LoS - a year ago that was certainly the one supplied in their kit, with a book in Italian

 

KIT08 on their site. I CANNOT seem to get a direct link for the thing. It doesn't have the original font, but in my view it's their best colouring... It's under tarot kits. It's actually the only Waite/Smith up there now, except for the USG in Italian.

 

Raggydoll[/member] Leffy just has a warped sense of humour. Best to ignore it, as his Knowledge is Great ! :) (Hi Leffy !)

 

^-^ I get that, and I am 100% aware (and in awe) of that Great Knowledge  :) I just want to make sure that no one forgets that this is a learning forum. We encourage all our members to ask questions if there is something that they are unsure about. And it is important that every question is met with a helpful, friendly attitude. That’s all  :thumbsup:

[River]

I found out which one was the Lo Scarabeo with the blue backs, Raggydoll[/member]. Apparently there are three decks that come in the same box. The first one had blue backs, then came the other two. :bangry:

Btw, what are you saying, I wasn't offended by Le Fanu's humour. :P

[Raggydoll]

I found out which one was the Lo Scarabeo with the blue backs, Raggydoll[/member]. Apparently there are three decks that come in the same box. The first one had blue backs, then came the other two. :bangry:

Btw, what are you saying, I wasn't offended by Le Fanu's humour. :P

 

Oh gosh, I have never seen that one! Thanks for sharing!

 

And I wasn’t implying that you were offended. I’m just making a general point  ^-^

[FLizarraga]

There was a quite lengthy thread on Aeclectic Tarot about this/these deck/s. Lo Scarabeo first published as a Centenary Special a bona fide reproduction of the RWS (I forget which Pam it was, and frankly the point is moot), which suddenly and without any explanation* was supplanted by the redrawn version. The box is exactly the same**. Ebay sellers made a killing by posting pictures of the reproduction and then doing the old bait-and-switch and sending people the redrawn version. (Which is how I ended with TWO copies of the redrawn version, of course.) Some AT members, mostly in Europe, were able to score the real thing. The only member in the US that I know for sure got one was agviz.

 

 

The old thread is here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=4636103

 

 

*Though one can guess the probable legal reasons for the sudden switch *cough cease and desist cough*.

**LeFanu pointed out, even back then, that the Magician background on the box was more orangey in the redrawn version. I can neither corroborate nor deny this, as most of my decks are still boxed after moving in July.

[FLizarraga]

I've got the Tarot  of A E Waite Agm Urania, with the brown crackle backs. They are great, but don't have the PCS designed lettering on the cards. The quality is really good however and the colours are clear. I think they are Pam A, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure.

 

I had to buy them from a German tarot shop as I think there are copyright problems with them being sold in the US and UK.

 

If you don't mind the different Typeface, they are really nice.

 

 

This Urania edition is probably my favorite RWS ever, despite the changed font. Or was, until I got the USG borderless Centennial. I confess I'm fickle... :biggrin:

[DanielJUK]

I knew there was two different versions of the Pamela Colman Smith Lo Scarabeo version (with her actual name on it). There is the version which is now very OOP and can be quite expensive to get and a massmarket easy to get (inexpensive) version. I've never seen the blue back one before.

 

I bought a RWS deck with muted colours (I think it's called the original RWS) and it makes me feel depressed to use it. Sulis[/member] just bought the modern massmarket pamela coleman deck and kept using it on her instagram, so she and Le Fanu[/member]  enabled me terribly. I really love it!

 

From your pictures, the youtube capture has the modern (cheaper massmarket) version on the left, it has those flowers and beautiful colouring, I adore the colouring, it's like water colour blotchy backgrounds. The older version is on the right. My box is the same as the picture with the blue backs, so they do have the same box!

 

Glad we have come to the solution of this puzzle :) It's one of my fave RWS's now  :thumbsup:

[Rose Lalonde]

I think the art from the OOP Lo Scarabeo RWS that people raved about is going to be reprinted as the Radiant Wise Spirit Tarot  - or at least that's what it looks like in their 2019 catalog. Correct me if it's not the same; the coloring looks right.

[FLizarraga]

I think the art from the OOP Lo Scarabeo RWS that people raved about is going to be reprinted as the Radiant Wise Spirit Tarot  - or at least that's what it looks like in their 2019 catalog. Correct me if it's not the same; the coloring looks right.

 

 

This is great news, RL!  :party:

 

 

It's hard to tell, though. The noses and the hands look more like the redrawn version than the OOP reproduction, and the Magician's background is muddy and orangey like the reproduction's, too. For what I can tell, based on the pictures I have seen online and on Le Fanu's description, the Magician's background in the reproduction is yellow and not muddy at all.

 

 

Not an issue for me in the end, as I like the readily available redrawn version and will probably get this borderless one as well.

 

ETA: The Sun card looks redrawn as well, to me at least. The font shown is not the handwritten one (kept in the redrawn version), but I seem to remember that has been the case in other marketing images. The finished deck may very well keep the handwritten font.

[Rose Lalonde]

I think the art from the OOP Lo Scarabeo RWS that people raved about is going to be reprinted as the Radiant Wise Spirit Tarot  - or at least that's what it looks like in their 2019 catalog. Correct me if it's not the same; the coloring looks right.

This is great news, RL!  :party:

 

It's hard to tell, though. The noses and the hands look more like the redrawn version than the OOP reproduction, and the Magician's background is muddy and orangey like the reproduction's, too. For what I can tell, based on the pictures I have seen online and on Le Fanu's description, the Magician's background in the reproduction is yellow and not muddy at all.

 

Not an issue for me in the end, as I like the readily available redrawn version and will probably get this borderless one as well.

 

ETA: The Sun card looks redrawn as well, to me at least. The font shown is not the handwritten one (kept in the redrawn version), but I seem to remember that has been the case in other marketing images. The finished deck may very well keep the handwritten font.

Ah, thanks for clarifying! I've probably only added to the confusion then.  ::) I just knew people were upset thinking they were buying the Lo Scarabeo RWS with mottled colored backgrounds, but instead receiving one in the same box with 'flat,' muted backgrounds (as in this Amazon review). So the mottled is already readily available, then?  I'm not really clear on the redrawn issue, but then I have exactly one RWS so I'm no expert on its editions!

[FLizarraga]

I think the art from the OOP Lo Scarabeo RWS that people raved about is going to be reprinted as the Radiant Wise Spirit Tarot  - or at least that's what it looks like in their 2019 catalog. Correct me if it's not the same; the coloring looks right.

This is great news, RL!  :party:

 

It's hard to tell, though. The noses and the hands look more like the redrawn version than the OOP reproduction, and the Magician's background is muddy and orangey like the reproduction's, too. For what I can tell, based on the pictures I have seen online and on Le Fanu's description, the Magician's background in the reproduction is yellow and not muddy at all.

 

Not an issue for me in the end, as I like the readily available redrawn version and will probably get this borderless one as well.

 

ETA: The Sun card looks redrawn as well, to me at least. The font shown is not the handwritten one (kept in the redrawn version), but I seem to remember that has been the case in other marketing images. The finished deck may very well keep the handwritten font.

Ah, thanks for clarifying! I've probably only added to the confusion then.  ::) I just knew people were upset thinking they were buying the Lo Scarabeo RWS with mottled colored backgrounds, but instead receiving one in the same box with 'flat,' muted backgrounds (as in this Amazon review). So the mottled is already readily available, then?  I'm not really clear on the redrawn issue, but then I have exactly one RWS so I'm no expert on its editions!

 

 

Oh, I'm no expert either, RL! I leave that to real connoisseurs and collectors, of which we have no short supply around here. But the AT discussion about these decks was a looooong one. And I happen to have the USG borderless edition on my desk, so it was easy to compare details.

[Selene]

I have this deck. But its called the Pamela Colman Smith tarot deck.

[FLizarraga]

I have this deck. But its called the Pamela Colman Smith tarot deck.

 

 

It's the same deck. Check the old AT thread.

[Flaxen]

I have the redrawn version of this deck with the muddy background to the Magician and the Eve with a chin implant. :)

 

I’d love a copy of the one which isn’t the redrawn lines but it’s a bit of a risk - old stock photos are still out there.

[DanielJUK]

good spot Rose, I am not sure what that Radiant Wise Tarot Deck is, hopefully there will be more details about it before release.

 

The current massmarket version goes by the name "Lo Scarabeo RWS Pamela Colman Smith", so if you want it, search amazon or your favourite shop. Weirdly the UK Amazon has the wrong artwork for the deck, not colourful but maybe the original version? There are a lot of people moaning in the comments that it's not the original version they were expecting to turn up (which is very OOP now).

[gregory]

I have all of them. And I agree about the probable cease and desist issue. BUT - unless they have run out, certainly a year ago the NICEST one was still available in the Italian kit.

 

Don't trust amazon images, though. MANY were caught out by those.

[FLizarraga]

I have all of them. And I agree about the probable cease and desist issue. BUT - unless they have run out, certainly a year ago the NICEST one was still available in the Italian kit.

 

Don't trust amazon images, though. MANY were caught out by those.

 

 

I know I was caught by those, both on Amazon and on eBay. Alas, but where can one find the Italian kit? I seem to remember it was only available at European brick and mortar stores --am I right, gregs?

 

 

Oh, Daniel, here is the Radiant Wise Tarot deck: https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738762364. It will come out in July of 2019. You can click on the images for close-up detail.