Size for Original Art to Shrink to Tarot Size Properly

[TeaDotOz]

Hi 😊

 

Would anyone know what dimensions a piece of canvas should be tcut to to later on be able to have printed in tarot size cards without stretching or shrinking or losing and of the picture?

 

Over the last ....believe it or not lol....30 years I have drawn and coloured a set

. We sent them off to print a deck but they are stretched and look bad. I'd like to re do them, fix or change  in oil paint. Don't want to make them huge or tiny so 8x10 or a little bigger would be perfect. Realize 8x10 wouldn't shrink to that size , but could cut larger pieces of canvas pad paper to whatever the dimensions neat that size would be.

Rotten at math and fear making a mistake.

 

Thanks for any help.

Tea

[reall]

Wow! I Admire your devotion!:) I'm painting my Tarot over year by now & despair over last 12 court cards I'm left to finish!:) facepalm

 

Standard Tarot size is 2.75x4.75in  (around 7x12cm) but in printing process part of art close to edges is usually cut out or left blank so Tarot size template is bit larger 3x5in or 900x1500 pixel with 300dpi

best download it here; https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/product/TarotDeck

& see how it fit your cards?:) in general proportion 9;15 or 3:5 should be perfect!:)

just keep in mind part of your art around edges will end up cut in printing process (red covered in tgc template) & part outside blue guideline can also end up cut in case card is off center(3mm drift is considered expected!:)

 

& you can check this printer I find recently; http://www.ludocards.com/quote.php

they print *any size!:) I used their service for my EU printed decks & no complains so far!:)

here is my full review; http://creativenlight.blogspot.com/2019/03/ludocards-best-eu-based-pod-review.html

btw be sure to check out this topic; https://www.thetarotforum.com/deck-creations/best-printer-fortarotoracle-deck!)/

 

& feel free to ask if you need any help turning your art digital!:)

I'm pro by now & gimp is my weapon!^^ lol

[DanielJUK]

I don't know the exact sizes but I followed Roxi Sim's updates when she was reprinting her wonderful Pearls of Wisdom tarot deck. The card images were originally paintings on canvas that were large. She kept all the paintings safe and decided to reprint her popular original deck. She had the paintings rephotographed with a camera with a Zeiss lens in as high a resolution as possible and then uploaded to Gamecrafter for people to buy. So she went as high as possible. The two printings of her deck before that had borders to make the image not look awful and the 3rd reprint was the first one with no borders and just the gorgeous art! so I guess she followed the rules on the gamecrafter site that Reall suggested about proportion.

 

 

[Guest]

My first suggestion is don't make assumptions about what the average tarot card size is. Find the printer you're going to use, obtain the templates that printer provides. Print-on-demand printers tend to use what everyone would consider average... while a real printer tends to not use what is average. if you have seen that you had stretching and distortion it's because you were close but not the same.

 

Second suggestion, work at the exact size of the card. Often we see cards that look very dark no matter what the printer does to remedy, it they cannot. This is caused by at working too large of a resolution reducing down and it creates too high of ink coverage across the surface. I.e. the lines get so close together you can't differentiate, what was glorious detail just becomes muddy shadow.

 

If you are going to do paintings scan them in at the highest dots per inch possible....Which would imply that you have to paint the painting within the dimensions of the scanner you have available to you.  Make your computer cry, the lowest dots per inch should be about 1600. Or once again you will just get a blurry darkening of the image or a cloudy fuzzy white image that looks like you're seeing it in a dream.

 

To be honest the average person doesn't have enough computer to do an entire deck of cards that are painted for a real printer.

You have to have all 78 cards in the same scene laid out at least 1600 DPI. which means you'll want to speak to and interact with your printer to find out what they need from you to get it in the scene properly. This is a service you will not get from a print-on-demand printer.

 

I would suggest using the u.s. playing card company, legends, cartumindi, or the expert playing card company. But it will be an investment to get cards that look as nice as your art is how it usually goes.

 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

 

[reall]

whatsawhosit[/member] I object!:) have you ever printed deck of cards?:)

I did! as well as other POD for Art accessories & textile like zazzle spoonflower etc

point is you work with available print templates & requirements and standard for *paper/art print is 300dpi & 150 dpi for textile!:) anything above that is pointless as standard printer can only print one of above! sure you can go super hi res you mentioned but that only works to give you option for large art prints etc while Tarot card resolution is small size 7x12cm & standard is 900x1500pixel with 300dpi!^^

 

any distortions is result of proportion of template & image not fitting!

btw TeaDotOz[/member] be sure to note us printer name who did this terrible job for you?;)

 

that's why best find your art proportion first then find/create fitting template here; http://www.ludocards.com/quote.php

or check out size that fit you best here; https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/pricing#decks

or here; https://www.makeplayingcards.com/promotional/blank-playing-cards.html

but imo if you are good with *digital editing *cough like me!** it's easy to adjust Any size to template you wish!^^

 

same goes for colors; screen digital are RGB+light you don't actually notice until you print it CMYK & that's why it end up much darker printed! that's why you make your img bit lighter digital then your print will look & in case you card printer require pdf export those with cmyk settings & printed color profiles?:) again not big problem if you are good with digital software & have experience with your printer?:)

 

also if you don't have scanner or your paintings can't fit one you can take photos & work with these!:)

 

as for pc requirements you can work with what you have standard windows home pc/tablet + free digital edit software like gimp or white rabbit is ok!:) as you will editing 1img at time not All 78 at once!:) & then export/save in your printer required format png or pdf, at least that's how I (& most of selfpublishers) print our decks!^^ check out my selfpublished decks so far here; https://sites.google.com/view/myluckycard

 

All Thanks to POD I've used & I've always had great support from drivethrucards & ludocards!^^ so please don't say I'm *SuperSpecial!^^ Already know that!^^lolz

 

p.s I'm checking those big printers you mentioned & adding to our printer list!:)

Sure anyone can call those *big printers if you have enough $$$ to invest & confidence you can sell i.e 250/500 decks their minimal print quote usually is?:)

 

OR you can try your luck with POD like me & most selfpublisher use these days!?:)

imo it can be done with bit of luck & patience & pro selfpulisher/designer help!^^ lol best look with your publishing adventure! can't wait to see what you'll end up with!^^ lol

[Guest]

i was referring to offset printing and the resolution DOES matter when it is time to cut the plates that do the printing on an offset machine. POD is ink jet printing glorified...and I took into consideration the thirty years of effort that went into these paintings. I would pay to have it done, that is a life time of work. I have done more for less. if you have made all of these wonderful paintings why butcher them digitally?

 

For about 1200 bucks you can get a desk top cmyk printer and all the supplies to make your own ink jet cards. Then you can play with the settings till they are purrrfeect.  >:D

 

 

[reall]

i was referring to offset printing and the resolution DOES matter when it is time to cut the plates that do the printing on an offset machine. POD is ink jet printing glorified...and I took into consideration the thirty years of effort that went into these paintings. I would pay to have it done, that is a life time of work. I have done more for less. if you have made all of these wonderful paintings why butcher them digitally?

 

For about 1200 bucks you can get a desk top cmyk printer and all the supplies to make your own ink jet cards. Then you can play with the settings till they are purrrfeect.  >:D

Or you can invest & print with POD?:) *wink wink* joking aside I would rather invest in professional photography?:) That way you get best digital img possible!^^ lol

[DevonCarter]

i was referring to offset printing and the resolution DOES matter when it is time to cut the plates that do the printing on an offset machine. POD is ink jet printing glorified...and I took into consideration the thirty years of effort that went into these paintings. I would pay to have it done, that is a life time of work. I have done more for less. if you have made all of these wonderful paintings why butcher them digitally?

 

For about 1200 bucks you can get a desk top cmyk printer and all the supplies to make your own ink jet cards. Then you can play with the settings till they are purrrfeect.  >:D

 

I currently am the designer and do pre-press for an offset printer, I've been here for over 12 years and in the industry for over 25 years. Anything higher than 300 DPI at the size it is printing for IMAGES is unnecessary and will have the prepress department rolling their eyes, and will slow down production significantly. We have more than one customer who insists on scanning at 1600 dpi at the largest possible size, and then dropping it into a file at 1 inch by 1 inch. That's a serious waste, and they get charged for that extra time spent on their huge files. Extra resolution is often just wasted time, and does not improve the quality - the pre-press software downsamples to the proper resolution for the plates anyway! It will likely, however, increase your cost for the next printing once the boss asks the prepress guy why it took all day to download the files and process the plates. You could, potentially, go up higher for text (1200 max, 600dpi is perfectly fine), but text really should be kept vector (images are raster, logos and text are vector) which has no resolution and is always sharp and clean anyway.

 

I agree with DanielJUK[/member] about having the art photographed at the highest possible quality - you'll want that for future use, possibly - for posters, banners, promos, the box, etc. But for the deck itself, save smaller copies of the art at 300 DPI at the final size - remembering to include an extra 1/8 inch on all for sides as bleed, which will be cut off. Save these as CMYK mode, and adjust the colors accordingly - CMYK is generally darker than RGB, which is for screens and therefore backlit!

 

I'd suggest speaking to your preferred printer ahead of time, if possible. They may not have a template to give you (I don't - I could make one if asked, however) but remember if you're getting it custom printed you can have it whatever size you want. A good printer will not stretch or distort images without giving you a proof and saying "are you really sure this is what you want?" If the art is already done, just pick dimensions that work for the art, and don't worry about what is "standard" unless you have a good reason to do so. Borders can be added to adjust dimensions if necessary. If you are adding text, try to do so in a vector format - Photoshop is for photos, that's why it's called that. Illustrator is for drawing and creating logos, that's why it's called that. Indesign is for actual design and page layout, and is by far the best choice if you can get it. It has a bit of a learning curve, but is super powerful. You can set up master pages with common elements that go on all cards, or groups of cards - want to change the cup logo on top of every cup card, and put a black border around all the majors? Do it on the master pages and it changes all of them. You can set up styles so with one click all the text you add is identical in font and size. You can end up with one PDF with all 78 individual cards (check with your printer - there may be room on the press sheet for a couple more!), ready to go to the printer. With the images linked instead of embedded, and at the proper resolution, the Indesign file will be fairly quick to work with even with tons of images. (There are other options for page layout, I used to use Quark, for example, but Indesign is industry standard.)

 

I'm not a huge fan of most print-on-demand stuff I've seen, TBH. I'm a little spoiled by working at a local offset printer. I disagree that digital is necessarily a bad idea, however. We work with quite a few vendors who do digital printing (only for other printers) that create some really high-quality work - though they will have specific templates and sizes they print. In-house, we have no inkjet printing other than wide format, but I do run a digital press that is a toner process, and the quality there is very, very good. A few customers prefer it to the offset press, for certain jobs. There are inkjet digital presses that can be indistinguishable from offset.

 

A benefit to digital printing is that you can get a proof from the actual machine used to produce the job, most of the time. For offset, that's simply not possible without a huge setup cost and time investment. The proofs for offset are as close to accurate as possible, and are what the press operator will try to match, but are created on a different machine.

 

But my biggest advice is to speak to the printer ahead of time if at all possible. They'll want to help you get it right the first time, because that's less trouble for them. They may make suggestions to save money - like "hey, if we make these all 1/4" smaller we can eliminate a set of plates" or "there's room for 2 more cards on the press sheet, if you want to add a title card or business card or something". They may have info sheets about resolution and bleed and other industry jargon, that can help you understand what they are talking about. The pre-press person may look at the files and say "OK, just so you know, these are going to print REALLY dark... I'd recommend adjusting them, or we can do so at our design rate." Especially at a smaller printer, everyone knows their equipment. Like I know if someone wants a faint watermark printed on their letterhead, it needs to be so pale on-screen you can barely see it to print correctly. I know my digital press struggles with built grays and dark blues are hard to match sometimes. I want my customers' pieces to come out the best they possibly can, and sometimes that means I call them and say "Hey, this gray is too dark, I'd recommend lightening it and making it just a screen of black" or whatever needs to be done to get them the best result.

 

Best of luck!

[Guest]

That was amazing thank you so much. [emoji41]  I always learn so much from you.

 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

 

[reall]

DevonCarter[/member] Exactly my point!  Always Happy to get my info confirmed by pro! Big Thank You for All Tips you share with us here!^^:)

[DevonCarter]

I'm glad I can help some, even though sometimes it comes out as a novel! There's such a learning curve in printing, and its an industry that is simultaneously very old (one of our machines is around 70 and still in frequent use) and cutting edge new. There was a lot I learned after starting work at a printer even though I'd been in the industry quite a while at that point!

[reall]

Ha ha! *novel Exact word I got when writing my ludocards review!:)

check it here; http://creativenlight.blogspot.com/2019/03/ludocards-best-eu-based-pod-review.html

only duology is more likely as I just got APIs I'm yet to figure how to add to my paypal buttons?x,x facepalm lolz

[TeaDotOz]

Thanks everyone for taking so much time to answer. My husband figured out what size I can work on for the art to fit the 2.75x3.75 template at Gamecrafter where the first try stretched my art taller. Never worked on such a small canvas paper but 10 1/2 plus by 6 1/4 fits perfectly on the template without the images being stretched long.  Would have preferred slightly bigger canvas paper but happy to have solved a long standing and frustrating problem. By printing out the template on cardboard...which ends up those measurements to work with, I have the exact pattern size to cut my canvas paper.  Also, like someone mentioned, nothing bigger will fit our scanner. Thanks again. Wish me luck lol.

[Arcadia]

Hello

 

I am looking for a POD service to print my Tarot deck, i have used most of the popular ones listed above and i want to try Ludo cards. I wanted to ask about the quality of the printing as i often find that cards come out slightly darker with POD.

 

Also do Ludo Cards provide one off prints of your deck or do you need to buy in bulk.

 

Okay i've just found the answer from Reall's link - thanks

 

1. Printing; ludocards will print *ANY number of cards & any size!:) BUT minimum number of Tarot size decks you can print with ludocards is 6!:) imo it's ok as it's always good to have spare or you can gift/sell what you don't need?:) & there is discount for larger quantities so that's good news for selfpublishers!:) & whatever number of decks you decide to print you can ship it 2 ways;

 

[gregory]

I have one deck printed by Ludo - it's fine.

 

As to the bulk issue - you should really ask them. Sometimes it depends on the project.

[Arcadia]

Thanks Gregory,

 

I was curious about the print quality it's mostly the card stock that i'm fussy about -

i'm looking for something that is not going to be thin and is easy to shuffle.

[reall]

Arcadia[/member] you are welcome!  feel free to ask if you need help with anything & check my printer list for more POD options;

https://www.thetarotforum.com/deck-creations/best-printer-fortarotoracle-deck!)/

btw have you tried drivethrucards *Embossed cards stock & gamecrafter *linen card stock add on?:) it DOES make a difference!:) I've also used printerstudio & mpc no complaints!:)

 

gregory[/member] Only 1?:) pm me so we can fix that!:) lol

[gregory]

I have most of yours from MPC. But I don't do Lenormands.

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

TeaDotOz, you know we are all interested...will you show us a couple of your cards? Pretty Please?

[reall]

I have most of yours from MPC. But I don't do Lenormands.

whut? I'm not doing mpc just dtc & tgc & ludocards & Tarot!:)

Check All my decks here; https://sites.google.com/view/myluckycard

[gregory]

I beg your pardon. Drivethru - you're right.

 

I don't order from TGC as they ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS incur whacking customs charges in the UK.

[reall]

pardon kindly accepted!:) dtc my fav! & mpc charges are ridiculously overpriced for no other reason BUT they noticed we like to selfpublish!:) so i'm not using mpc or ps until they come back to their senses & adjust their stock price according to standard & apologize for stress we suffered for not being able to afford ALL fancy print options they offer(including my fav lenticuar & holo!:) Thank You very much!:)

 

 

[Louise]

reall[/member]

 

Hello!

 

I'm considering using Ludocards but I'm not sure about those PDF files. I have PNG images (RGB) as my base. Do you have any tips regarding the conversion to PDF files like settings or anything else that I should know?

 

I plan to buy your fantastic Pam's vintage (I came across it on Ludocards FB page). I'm really after a printing company located in Europe. I'll be able to check what their decks look/feel like, that's great 😀

 

Thanks!

[reall]

hm, I find Sribus & this tutorial best!;) https://onebookshelfpublisherservice.zendesk.com/hc/article_attachments/360019157973/How%20To%20SCRIBUS%20-DTCards%20REV11-2018.pdf

only difference is card size (you set it 76x126mm) for 7x12 Tarot cards!:)

also you'll need some cmyk conversion & compression set as well, these are scribus settings i've used (scroll until you see screenshots); http://creativenlight.blogspot.com/2019/03/ludocards-best-eu-based-pod-review.html

or just pm for details!:)

& be sure to check out this vid review I got for my EU decks!:)

 

 

 

[Louise]

reall[/member]

 

Thanks for all the links, really appreciated 😀