Does Anyone Else Remember?

[Chronata]

Does anyone else remember the good old days when gorgeous tarot decks were being released slowly...so we could all ooh and ahh and save our pennies...for that handful of decks we wanted?

 

Now...I swear there is like,three decks a day that show up on my radar...that I am coveting them ALL because everything is unique and amazing.

 

Maybe I am exaggerating slightly...but not really.

I took a year off from tarot...and I'm afraid I will never catch up now.

 

Are there really more artists creating more decks...or is it my imagination?

Do creators have better outlets on social media for being seen?

Does kickstarter factor into it more...or am I just easily seeing the independants more nowadays?

 

I created a tiny (oracle) deck last year...and  competition has become crazy fierce! 

 

 

 

[gregory]

It's not your imagination, and believe me, if anyone knows, that would be me. Luckily the UK customs fees etc are restraining me where nothing else works!

[Barleywine]

The explosion of self-publishing has had a lot to do with the proliferation of both books and decks. I can't say much negative about that because my daughter is working on her own deck and will surely self-publish it. For a good look at this in action, take a look at Lynn Boyle's staggering Lenormand output, much of which is quite good.

[katrinka]

Lynn once used a dingo for a Fox card, lol. I don't think Chronata has much to worry about from that quarter. ;)
I do understand having ones' listings buried in a tsunami flood of new people - it happened to us readers as well as deck creators - and I agree that self publishing has something to do with it. But IIRC, Chronata's decks are also self published. (And now that I think of this, I'm somewhat surprised that USG or another company hasn't snapped up her work. It DOES sell, and quickly. Their loss, and ours.)

One would think that the big publishers would be the hardest hit. Speaking for myself, I don't recall buying ANY decks this year that weren't from Game of Hope/The Cartomancer or kickstarter.  But USG, LS, etc. seem to be chugging along as if nothing happened.

The market is getting super saturated at this point. I don't think it can last. From what I gather, there's not much money in it, and a lot of people will give up after a failed kickstarter or two. It's just a matter of riding out a trend.

[reall]

imo we are just lucky this year Tarot Art wise!;D

[Bodhiseed]

There does seem to be a choice overload, and I agree that the crowd funding and self-publishing options have likely created the swell. But - and this is just my opinion - I feel like many of the decks, while beautiful, don't have enough symbolism to make them worth buying if I want them for more than just the artwork. Lately when I discover a new deck, I check out some of the cards and see how I would read with them. If I find myself just relying on traditional meanings rather than being inspired by the images, I can stop myself from buying it. On the other hand, there are some decks that I love that were self-published or crowd funded that likely wouldn't have made it if a big publisher was the only option.

[euripides]

I think this is true across the board - in part, it's the availability of self publishing facilitating creativity, which is awesome, (and the same goes for other genres like music and video and books) but quality can suffer when you don't have an editorial board. There's a reason, sometimes, that you want some degree of gatekeeping. The flipside is the increase of casualization and driving down of wages, so people are really looking for ways to make money out of hobbies. I'm always conflicted about this - people deserve to be paid for their work, but turning everything you do into commerce can suck all the joy out of it.

 

I've only been back in the loop a couple of weeks and already I've seen several mentions of problematic kickstarters so I won't be jumping on any of those in a hurry.

[DanielJUK]

I think this is because decks are really popular now, so many young people are into tarot and oracles, the mass produced sales are something like 5 times higher than ten years ago! But also it's easier than ever to market yourself and self-publish. My main way of seeing new decks is on this forum but also I follow tarot people on twitter, instagram and facebook and see if anything excites me with new decks they publish. I think a thread here talking about a deck is the fastest way to make me want to buy it, oh enabling 😂 I do think I find new exciting and independent decks mostly by word of mouth on the internet.

[Chronata]

Thanks everyone for your input!

( and thanks Katrinka for your kind words!) 

I haven't actually bought any of the decks I am lusting after...but I'm also afraid that many might be pretty on the surface, and not that deep in symbolism. 

 

I'm just glad I'm not alone in these observations!

[euripides]

41 minutes ago, Chronata said:

I haven't actually bought any of the decks I am lusting after...

 

I find a good strategy is to make a wishlist with links, and give it some time - see if you still want them months later. I'd had a load of decks on my wishlist that I desperately wanted, and some of them I really don't see the attraction now!

 

Now go and fill out your wishlist so I can see what you're coveting. I need a new deck lol.

[gregory]

LoS and USG are putting out decks at the same rate they ever did. The only "major" new player has been Schiffer. The huge uptick is Kickstarter and gamecrafter. Anyone can put up anything. And with KS in particular,  self-publicising on forums draws attention in a way that self-publishing In the past never did. I agree, though - chronata should aim bigger!

[Lantana]

This year the amount of new decks that said nothing to me made me burn out of tarot for a while. That’s not a mark against any specific deck, just me feeling overwhelmed. The few times I did see an indie deck out on the internet they felt like cash-ins on a trend, a sentiment I argued against only a year or so ago! 

 

I feel like we’re at a peak right now for sure. Hopefully the ride downhill will be smooth and still allow for indie decks to be self-published, just at less of a breakneck pace. 

[Little Fang]

I'm actually finding myself purchasing so many decks that I don't have any time to sit and connect to any of them.  It's kind of frustrating.  I love them all, but I kind of wish it would all slow down so I could bond!  (Made trickier since I can't just travel with all of them, they do get heavy, so I am limited to bonding when I'm actually home.  And even then, I do other things rather then mess with decks.  Oops.)

[Eric13]

Younger people are into tarot now. That's always been the target audience for any type of business. I was in a "funky" clothing store yesterday in Charlotte NC and they had tarot decks. Nothing special, but the 20-somethings in their using their credit cards to buy clothes were also interested in the tarot decks. I think it's a good thing. 

[Katie]

I remember. Can't say if it was better, but looking back it feels like it was much calmer back then. Though that could be "false". I am a bit stressed by all beautiful decks that exists nowadays. But I also enjoy them.

Katie

[bookshop]

@Lantana this has me curious about the decks you've seen lately that you *didn't* feel were cash-ins on a trend?

 

i'll admit that a few of the kickstarter decks i've backed have left me feeling distinctly underwhelmed when they were in my hands, but often half the reason i back a deck is to support the artist to make more art and if the deck itself doesn't speak to me i think that's probably not the worst thing in the world. but also i've quickly started to be much much more selective about the decks i back, and why.  On Kickstarter it's easy for everything to look amazing, and there have been a few times when i've backed a deck, then reconsidered and canceled my pledge after the initial 'wow' factor has worn off, because the deck was similar to one i already owned, or didn't hold enough unique qualities, or just didn't seem worth the cost on reflection.

 

But I think that the plethora of amazing decks is a really good thing, because it prevents there being a monolithic narrative that elevates any ONE deck over all the others. I'd like to think that if the Wild Unknown or Deviant Moon (both of which i dislike and recently bought reluctantly) or Shadowscapes (which I own and love) were published in 2019, for example, none of them would be the Be-All/End-All discussion-dominating decks they are, because they'd be compared to other intricate, inventive, high-quality decks doing similar things, and perhaps all of these decks would get more attention from more people. Or maybe they would stand out no matter what?

 

[katrinka]

24 minutes ago, bookshop said:

@Lantana On Kickstarter it's easy for everything to look amazing, and there have been a few times when i've backed a deck, then reconsidered and canceled my pledge after the initial 'wow' factor has worn off, because the deck was similar to one i already owned, or didn't hold enough unique qualities, or just didn't seem worth the cost on reflection.

There's a "Remind me" option that saves the project and notifies you by email a couple of days before it ends (or you can just log into Kickstarter and click "saved projects".)
It's a handy feature if you need some time before deciding to commit, and the artist doesn't go through the disappointment of being almost at goal and having people cancel at the last minute.

[Lantana]

4 hours ago, bookshop said:

@Lantana this has me curious about the decks you've seen lately that you *didn't* feel were cash-ins on a trend?

Honestly, of the ones I've been shown by my witchy friends... I ended up being wowed by mass published decks. What is going on with me???

But to be fair, there's a difference between "cash-in" and "eh, I've seen this already" as you mentioned, and most kickstarter links I've this seen this year fall into the later. The indie decks that felt like a cash-ins to me were ones I came across online completely outside the usual places—not to say that advertising or 'mainstream' appeal are what made me feel that way, because I bought and love the Wild Unknown and it did the same thing. Maybe it's just choice overload making me be more down on decks I'd usually be a fan of, or I'm searching for that feeling I got when I saw the first indie deck that spoke to me to no avail...

[-fenrir-]

11 hours ago, Lantana said:

The indie decks that felt like a cash-ins to me were ones I came across online completely outside the usual places—not to say that advertising or 'mainstream' appeal are what made me feel that way, because I bought and love the Wild Unknown and it did the same thing. Maybe it's just choice overload making me be more down on decks I'd usually be a fan of, or I'm searching for that feeling I got when I saw the first indie deck that spoke to me to no avail...

Same here. First I loved the artwork of the Wild Unknown, then i started second guessing because it was so trendy. I bought it nevertheless because you know, Beth Maiden liked it, so it can't be that bad, right? 😅 And it was easy available. Starting to work  with it turned out to be kind of a self fullfilling prophecy, I didn't connect with it. I'm over it now, but somehow I'm a bit wary when a deck is this hyped (even if it's deserved in my eyes), if that makes sense...

But a big benefit of the current hype is that decks (beyond RWS & Thoth) are widely available. I still whine if indie decks can't be shipped outside the US at all or you have to pay more for shipping and customs then for the deck itself, but there is a much bigger variety available internationally.

[Jewel]

Things did feel calmer back in the day, and I could participate in more deck discussions because there was less to keep up with. I was overwhelmed when I came Bach a couple of years ago form a 5 year break. Honestly it still overwhelms me so I do not even visit places like Kickstarter. I get all my tarot into here and buy fewer decks than I ever did. With so much choice I have become way more selective because with added choices there is also more less than satisfactory decks.

[Venus Rising]

On 9/3/2019 at 11:42 AM, -fenrir- said:

Same here. First I loved the artwork of the Wild Unknown, then i started second guessing because it was so trendy. I bought it nevertheless because you know, Beth Maiden liked it, so it can't be that bad, right? 😅 And it was easy available. Starting to work  with it turned out to be kind of a self fullfilling prophecy, I didn't connect with it. I'm over it now, but somehow I'm a bit wary when a deck is this hyped (even if it's deserved in my eyes), if that makes sense...

But a big benefit of the current hype is that decks (beyond RWS & Thoth) are widely available. I still whine if indie decks can't be shipped outside the US at all or you have to pay more for shipping and customs then for the deck itself, but there is a much bigger variety available internationally.

I think you've summed up my feelings quite nicely here 🙂   That's one of the reasons why I didn't jump on the Wild Unknown bandwagon.  I wasn't sure about the art originally, but I think the hype is really what made me put it aside. I was just looking at it again the other day in the shop, and again, put it back.   If it's super trendy, I'm kind of meh about it.  Same for the Starchild Tarot.  I actually wanted it, but it just seems wayyyyyy too  Instagramm-y - woo- influencer looking.  (if that makes sense LOL)  Is that a bad thing? I don't know.  I just see people just posing with their decks and doing selfies like the deck is a fashion accessory etc and it's kind of a turn off.

 

But then again, when Baba decks come out, I don't get turned off by any hype that they *most deservedly* receive.   But I guess that's a different hype, maybe? Hyped among actual tarot readers?   I don't know....just rambling here haha.

It's exciting to see so many new decks being released and I'm really happy for those wonderful creators who might not have had the opportunity to be able to release their decks into the wild without things like Kickstarters etc.  At the same time though, crikey, it's getting overwhelming to keep up LOL   Thank the gods for the de-enable thread is all I'm going to say!

[Grizabella]

On 8/31/2019 at 3:04 PM, Bodhiseed said:

There does seem to be a choice overload, and I agree that the crowd funding and self-publishing options have likely created the swell. But - and this is just my opinion - I feel like many of the decks, while beautiful, don't have enough symbolism to make them worth buying if I want them for more than just the artwork. Lately when I discover a new deck, I check out some of the cards and see how I would read with them. If I find myself just relying on traditional meanings rather than being inspired by the images, I can stop myself from buying it. On the other hand, there are some decks that I love that were self-published or crowd funded that likely wouldn't have made it if a big publisher was the only option.

I agree. I think it's a matter of people seeing the popularity of Tarot, Lenormand, Oracles and Kipper and thinking they're going to really make a great lot of money turning out decks. I think lots of the new ones are created by people without a real background in any of these types of cards so they think it's much more simple than it actually is to create a truly inspiring and intuitive deck. I'm not very attracted to the new decks coming out. The newest one I've gotten was Poppy Palin's new deck, the Everyday Enchantment. 

 

My main working deck continues to be the Bonefire. Poppy's new deck is absolutely brilliant and I've done many readings with it, but good ol' Bonefire is what I always return to. I've been using the cards long enough to know what qualities a deck needs in order to be a good, solid reading deck for me. At this point, I can read with any deck but I don't feel drawn to the new ones I've seen so far. I do look at them, though.

[reall]

I disagree!:D No Amount of Money can pay time & Effort invested to paint/illustrate78 Art pieces

Exhibit A;

& i'm Not even into *theme & prefer my boyz bishis!^^ lol

it's just we are lucky to see modern pod & printers in general make it seem relatively easy to selfpublish & social media & ks help boost popularity?;D

so I'm happy to see more people jumping to wagon!^^ *fingerscrosed some of my fav artist will join & I got more awesome dream decks!xD lol

Edited October 1, 2019 by reall

[-fenrir-]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:45 PM, Venus Rising said:

I actually wanted it, but it just seems wayyyyyy too  Instagramm-y - woo- influencer looking.  (if that makes sense LOL)

That totally made sense 😊

And then I felt bad because everyone (actual tarot readers, as you stated) loved it (since I'm here I've actually heard from a few people that feel the same - so maybe this time it really isn't just me for a change...)

Edited October 11, 2019 by -fenrir-

[katrinka]

On 10/1/2019 at 2:45 PM, Venus Rising said:

I think you've summed up my feelings quite nicely here 🙂   That's one of the reasons why I didn't jump on the Wild Unknown bandwagon.  I wasn't sure about the art originally, but I think the hype is really what made me put it aside. I was just looking at it again the other day in the shop, and again, put it back.   If it's super trendy, I'm kind of meh about it.  Same for the Starchild Tarot.  I actually wanted it, but it just seems wayyyyyy too  Instagramm-y - woo- influencer looking.  (if that makes sense LOL)  Is that a bad thing? I don't know.  I just see people just posing with their decks and doing selfies like the deck is a fashion accessory etc and it's kind of a turn off.

(Reviving an old thread here, because it's such a relevant topic.)

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I loathe trends. Look at makeup, it's horrible now. All metallic and with that silly white dot on the inner corner of the eye. Gunking up your face with umpteen layers of primer, foundation, concealer, contouring, powder, highlighter, blush, and setting spray. I love makeup, but NO. Just...NO. Wear less crap - I don't care if you're going for a 70's Biba look (which, alas, Katrinka is too old to pull off these days, but it's an awesome look), think color payoff and pigment. Let your face breathe.

Likewise with "influencer" decks. And putting a bunch of rocks in every spread photo in an attempt to look "witchy". Do you honestly believe this is necessary to cartomancy? Did Mlle. Lenormand, Biddy Early, or Madame de Thebes require "Super Seven Crystals" (or whatever the new rock du jour is)? Don't get me wrong, I like rocks. I have some nice ones, a moon quartz palm stone and a smokey quartz sphere for gazing, as well as some nice points and various polished stones. and some very fitted jade bangles that never come off, that I'm just superstitious enough to believe in. But I don't pile them on my reading table. I'm so fed up with all this window dressing that I seldom even photograph spreads with a pretty cloth under them. I lay them on an unfinished hardwood coffee table, or the powder coated pub table in my kitchen. As long as a surface is clean, it's fit to lay cards.

I do like rainbow hair. I don't do it, because I would look like I was desperately trying not to be old, lol. And all that bleaching would fry my hair badly sooner or later, and I am not a person who would look attractive with my head shaved. (I do like that look on some people, but I don't understand why everybody says it's "empowering". People nowadays generally don't put a lot of work into their hair, I've seen many a messy bun on the red carpet! What "power", exactly, is to be gained from baldness?) Give me a 40's lob with a bit of layering and I'm good to go.

So, as you can see from all this, trends are anathema to me. Give me old images and old Hollywood looks. The decks I love most are either pre-50's repros, or  very well thought out (not bad quickie collage!) decks that utilize old images, like the Vamp.

OK, off rant for now. (Or not, lol.)

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But then again, when Baba decks come out, I don't get turned off by any hype that they *most deservedly* receive.   But I guess that's a different hype, maybe? Hyped among actual tarot readers?   I don't know....just rambling here haha.

Karen Mahony is steeped in Tarot knowledge (and by now, Alex is surely quite the expert, silent partner though he is,) Those decks have taught me things, MUCH more than what passes for books these days. You often get a seemingly unrelated image that makes you go "What???", but when you let it simmer in your mind a bit, it all falls into place and you're a little smarter, a little more hip than you were before you saw it.

What's interesting is that Karen posted on facebook recently about people debordering her decks. She has arrived at the point where it doesn't matter to her what anyone does with a deck they've bought and paid for, but Baba decks are really not intended to be debordered. The titles are necessary. Compare to Lenormand, which should NEVER require titles. There should be an instantly recognizable House, Dog, etc I stick with repros of old Lenormands, for the most part. 99% of the new ones are horrible: Paths that don't fork, Snakes draped over women, Riders on who-knows-what, etc. Titles on a Lenormand are the earmark of a bad deck. I wish deck creators would bother to learn the system behind the deck they're creating, that would improve things considerably!

But all in all, no. Don't deborder a Baba, Especially the Alice, which is deliciously surreal and spills out onto the borders!

Quote

It's exciting to see so many new decks being released and I'm really happy for those wonderful creators who might not have had the opportunity to be able to release their decks into the wild without things like Kickstarters etc.  At the same time though, crikey, it's getting overwhelming to keep up LOL   Thank the gods for the de-enable thread is all I'm going to say!

I look at new decks. And in 99.999% of the cases, I pass.
It's probably a good thing for my wallet that so many of them are trendy bandwagon things!
 

On 9/2/2019 at 12:35 PM, Eric said:

Younger people are into tarot now. That's always been the target audience for any type of business.

Actually, no.
Younger people are used to advertise, because they are attractive. But the target audience is anyone with disposable income (Money that doesn't have to go for rent, bills, etc.). The highest demographic in the US seems to be 45-54 years, IOW, empty nesters who are still working, https://www.statista.com/statistics/980324/us-mean-disposable-household-income-age/
Make no mistake, if it's not Clearasil or similar, that's who they're marketing to.