Let's Talk About 'Marseille Tarot: Towards The Art of Reading'

[Carla]

I first read Camelia Elias's book in 2015 and reviewed it here: Wen & Elias - 2 reviews . I can safely say it transformed my cartomancy. I've been reading it again and although I'm nearly finished, now that I've become active on these boards, I thought it might be fun to discuss. Happy to start over at the beginning and work through it. 

 

Any takers? 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Carla

[gregory]

That's WEN and Elias, no ?

 

From your reviews, I feel myself sliding towards Elias.

 

Which I don't exactly own, which makes further commentary hard.

[Carla]

Sorted typo!

 

I'll start us off with 

 

Chapter 1: A Question for a Story

In the first pages, Elias gives us thorough sample readings in which she demonstrates classical cartomancy (pre esoteric bolt-ons), characterised by noting 'rhyming' visual cues and directions of figures and line of sight. She reads in lines of 3, majors only, and draws from the remainder of the deck to add information to individual cards after the interpretation. For the remainder of the chapter, she spells out a good chunk of her philosophy of Tarot. The rest of it comes out throughout the rest of the book as she works her way through the individual cards and shares more readings.  Here are some of the quotes I've highlighted in my own book: 

 

'The querent has ultimate agency and my work is always based on fundamental trust. If a person comes to me for advice, I trust the person to be able to reflect on what we're talking about.' 

 

'Tarot is not about believing in anything. Tarot is a visual and poetic language that enables us to respond to an embodied situation presented in the cards.' 

 

'The idea is to make people process the information that the visual cues in the cards give them, so that it becomes knowledge about the situation at hand and what needs to be done.'

 

'At the other end, what the persons receiving your story based on 'their' cards make of it is really something beyond your control.'

 

She also talks about reading to 'make recourse to common sense rather than the teachings of secret societies,' delivering answers 'without at the same time lecturing on hermetic history and its systems of correspondences.' 

 

Elias says that there are any number of introductory books, but 'we are sorely missing books that show us how authors actually read the cards that they describe.' to which I say hear! hear!, and I love the fact that the bulk of this book is Elias allowing us to look over her shoulder and listen in as she reads the cards in answer to a variety of questions. 

 

Any of the above quotes is a great springboard for discussion! 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Carla

[Flaxen]

59 minutes ago, Carla said:

She also talks about reading to 'make recourse to common sense rather than the teachings of secret societies,' delivering answers 'without at the same time lecturing on hermetic history and its systems of correspondences.' 

I think this is key to reading for the average person. They want simple, direct answers to their questions. The TdM and the 3-5 cards in a line really lends itself to this. It becomes easier to see where the movement is, where something is stuck, who has agency, who is a passive player...

 

I found her readings easy to follow. It was mostly clear to me how she had arrived at her interpretation. 

 

I’m happy to do more spiritual/self-development type readings too but these are reserved for here and for other tarot enthusiasts. 

[gregory]

I absolutely agree. I know a load of people say you should explain all the symbolism and the rest - but that isn't what most sitters want - they want to talk about their lives, not Waite's esoteric beliefs.

 

I might ought to get this book....

[Carla]

I agree, too. I find the card-by-card 'teaching' style very tedious, and quite often the reading never quite gets around to addressing the actual question. 

 

Sitter: 'Should I keep my job as an editor or quit and take a course in dentistry?'

Reader: 'Well, the Empress represents fertility, see, she looks pregnant on the card!' 

Sitter: ...

[Carla]

Chapter 2: The Trumps 

 

A few quotations of interest: 

 

'I don't start with any symbolic meanings attributed to the cards. The symbolic meanings tend to be repetitive, trite, general and vague.' 

 

'I don't think that it's for me to judge what others find appropriate for themselves to know. I answer all the questions. All questions are good beginnings. They are all fascinating and worthwhile.' 

 

'Most of my method in reading three cards consists of noticing what turns into what, what is at stake in this transformation, where this transformation leads us. Often the interpretations doesn't fill more than a few lines. The idea is to be incisive and to the point. The idea is also to shoot for synthesis of the three cards, rather than give interpretations for each card.' 

 

'The reader is not responsible for people's feelings, for what people make of the reading, or for what they get out of it. The reader is responsible for delivering a useful statement, and for staying on track and true to the cards. Is there one precise sentence that gathers the essence of the cards on the table? Then fling it.'

 

'I don't see the point of reading reversed cards.' 

 

'Lecturing on esoteric correspondences can be mighty entertaining and fascinating, but it's not always useful vis-a-vis what people want to know. In this sense, what we call language of the birds, or what I like to call 'delivering one-liners', is an old, tested practice, worth remembering and returning to.' 

 

'I value tarot for the stories that it tells, whether they be of history or personal history. I want my cards to spell ABRACADABRA for me. The rest is just endless talk, devoid of wisdom and its soul.'