Help Identify This Deck Please?

[DejaVoo]

Hallo,

 

 

Can anyone help me find a deck like this or similar?  I really love the simplicity of it:

 

 

https://www.instasaver.org/p/Bs7fkeaH1Vc

 

 

Thanks!

[Decan]

I never saw this Lenormand deck; it looks an old deck though.

[katrinka]

Doesn't ring a bell. And it's a curious deck, all that white space...

But you can get reproductions of other old decks here http://gameofhopelenormand.bigcartel.com/

The art is pretty similar on some.

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

poorly printed if the center card is anything to go by. 

It reminds me of some of the simple rune decks I've had over the years, matt stock, thin-ish. 

[gregory]

Looks like someone pulled the basic images and then ran them through a POD site.

[Raggydoll]

I wonder if it’s a homemade study deck and you’re meant to fill in your own keywords in the blank area. Probably not hard to replicate. Why not create your own very simplistic deck in a similar fashion? (Sorry if that’s not much help, I’m just all about DIY at the moment 😄)

[DejaVoo]

Thank you all for your responses.  I would love to have a copy of this old German deck!

 

I am a sucker for minimalistic decks and I also love the fact that you have room to write keywords on the cards.  

 

I'm new to Lenormand and I have also come across another deck I like called the Russian Lenormand by Egle Singh but cannot find anywhere to purchase them.

 

I would also love to just create a simplistic deck for myself and think I will!

[Alchemist]

Hi @DejaVoo! Surprisingly enough, I can help you with this. These cards are a very, very shoddy rework+colorization (done under the Wahrsagekarten label, but likely made by a more lackluster production facility) of a much older Wahrsagekarten deck. Around the same time Wahrsagekarten did the Tacheles, they did a big push and (based on what I was told from a knowledgable--and very cranky, god rest his soul--old collector in Germany) produced some random, relatively short-run Lenormand decks to get as much variety as possible out into the market during that up-tick in popularity. The only real consistency to the few variations I've run across from that period are that they all use a variation of that border from their original Mlle Lenormand's set.

 

The original cards the deck from your picture are based on is an 1880 Mlle. Lenormand's deck that hand only black line art (green box with an image of a standing woman getting a reading from a sitting "witch", broom and cauldron in the background). While some of the later decks took great liberties in reworking the style of the border and the images, the one in your picture keeps very true to form--for the pictures they *do* show, that is. What turned me off from this deck (and the main reason I passed when I had the chance) is that it completely disregards the other half of the imagery in the card. The pictures on the top *should* be on the bottom, and a companion image should be on the top. Why they decided to ditch the top image, move the bottom up and (bafflingly) leave the bottom empty is beyond me. In another, more highly-reworked Wahrsagekarten set from from this period, they reworked the astrological border a little more heavily, moved the key images to the top (again, high-reworked compared to the version you posted a photo of), and they used the bottom area to put a lengthy description of each card.

 

Of the version you posted, unfortunately, I've only seen one. That was the aforementioned German collector's, who has since passed. He had no one, so it's been a (wildly frustrating) dead-end for me trying to figure out what became of his collection afterwards. But, wouldn't it be something if that very deck from his collection is the one that somehow found its way into Patricia Weston's hands? I doubt it, though, as she says "Unknown" in her caption, but his was in a Wahrsagekarten box.

 

Of the other boutique version I mentioned (it's not "minimal" at all--it shares the astrological border, and that's about it... so I doubt it'd be to your liking) there's actually one up for auction that I've been eyeballing, but it's missing one card. So... meh. If you're interested, though, PM me and I'll shoot you a link to the auction.

 

Finally, if you think you'd like the original 1880 Mlle. Lenormand set, I only know of one. The holder laughed off an offer of a thousand when I made it and seemed to have no interest in selling, so it wouldn't come cheap (if at all.) If you're made of money and more persuasive than me, though, PM me and I'll give you the last contact info I had.

 

Hope the above is of some help.

[DejaVoo]

1 hour ago, Alchemist said:

Hi @DejaVoo! Surprisingly enough, I can help you with this. These cards are a very, very shoddy rework+colorization (done under the Wahrsagekarten label, but likely made by a more lackluster production facility) of a much older Wahrsagekarten deck. Around the same time Wahrsagekarten did the Tacheles, they did a big push and (based on what I was told from a knowledgable--and very cranky, god rest his soul--old collector in Germany) produced some random, relatively short-run Lenormand decks to get as much variety as possible out into the market during that up-tick in popularity. The only real consistency to the few variations I've run across from that period are that they all use a variation of that border from their original Mlle Lenormand's set.

 

The original cards the deck from your picture are based on is an 1880 Mlle. Lenormand's deck that hand only black line art (green box with an image of a standing woman getting a reading from a sitting "witch", broom and cauldron in the background). While some of the later decks took great liberties in reworking the style of the border and the images, the one in your picture keeps very true to form--for the pictures they *do* show, that is. What turned me off from this deck (and the main reason I passed when I had the chance) is that it completely disregards the other half of the imagery in the card. The pictures on the top *should* be on the bottom, and a companion image should be on the top. Why they decided to ditch the top image, move the bottom up and (bafflingly) leave the bottom empty is beyond me. In another, more highly-reworked Wahrsagekarten set from from this period, they reworked the astrological border a little more heavily, moved the key images to the top (again, high-reworked compared to the version you posted a photo of), and they used the bottom area to put a lengthy description of each card.

 

Of the version you posted, unfortunately, I've only seen one. That was the aforementioned German collector's, who has since passed. He had no one, so it's been a (wildly frustrating) dead-end for me trying to figure out what became of his collection afterwards. But, wouldn't it be something if that very deck from his collection is the one that somehow found its way into Patricia Weston's hands? I doubt it, though, as she says "Unknown" in her caption, but his was in a Wahrsagekarten box.

 

Of the other boutique version I mentioned (it's not "minimal" at all--it shares the astrological border, and that's about it... so I doubt it'd be to your liking) there's actually one up for auction that I've been eyeballing, but it's missing one card. So... meh. If you're interested, though, PM me and I'll shoot you a link to the auction.

 

Finally, if you think you'd like the original 1880 Mlle. Lenormand set, I only know of one. The holder laughed off an offer of a thousand when I made it and seemed to have no interest in selling, so it wouldn't come cheap (if at all.) If you're made of money and more persuasive than me, though, PM me and I'll give you the last contact info I had.

 

Hope the above is of some help.

Thank you so much for the history of this deck, I really appreciate it!

[katrinka]

13 hours ago, Alchemist said:

In another, more highly-reworked Wahrsagekarten set from from this period, they reworked the astrological border a little more heavily, moved the key images to the top (again, high-reworked compared to the version you posted a photo of), and they used the bottom area to put a lengthy description of each card.

These?

 

I've never seen the actual vintage deck, both my copies are reproductions. So I've only seen the image of the front of the original box, pictured above, not the whole box. The label "untrügliche Wahrsagekarten" is just a description, German for "unerring fortune telling cards" - do you happen to know the name of the publisher? Thanks.

Edited November 4, 2019 by katrinka

[Alchemist]

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

These?
 

I've never seen the actual vintage deck, both my copies are reproductions. So I've only seen the image of the front of the original box, pictured above, not the whole box. The label "untrügliche Wahrsagekarten" is just a description, German for "unerring fortune telling cards" - do you happen to know the name of the publisher? Thanks.

Hi @katrinka! Those definitely fit the bill, but the specific deck I was referring to was the one pictured below (which, I believe, is actually a whittled-down 24 card set, which is befuddling that someone would release a Lenormand with 1/3rd less cards.) And I definitely don't know the publisher, then! My understanding from what I could grasp from the broken English (I don't speak German 😞 ) was that Wahrsagekarten was the label. Although now, knowing the above, it's painting what he said in a new mental light for me. I took "They have bunch of people printing them" as Wahrsagekarten (as a company) producing a lot. Now, I'm taking "they" to mean "people in general." Hm. I wish I would have found out more (although he was very much a "Are you going to buy things, or are you going to get out? Those are the options" kind of friendly guy). I met with him to get my last couple volumes of "Das Kloster: Weltlich und Geistlich" (I'm obsessed with the plates in them) and it was just a happy coincidence to find he had oracle cards.

 

Here's the one I was thinking of:

Edited November 4, 2019 by Alchemist
Edited due to autocorrect not liking German LOL

[katrinka]

5 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Hi @katrinka! Those definitely fit the bill, but the specific deck I was referring to was the one pictured below (which, I believe, is actually a whittled-down 24 card set, which is befuddling that someone would release a Lenormand with 1/3rd less cards.)

Nice!
Those come up on ebay from time to time. There's currently this listing, but the seller doesn't name the publisher. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/382998018801

It's not unusual to find old variations of Lenormand-type decks, with fewer or more cards, nonstandard numbering, and/or alternate images on some of the cards like roosters and lobster dinners, lol. It makes sense when you consider that Lenormand is a method rather than a deck.

Reducing the pack all the way down to 24 cards is a little unusual, but it was probably done for the convenience of the printer.

5 hours ago, Alchemist said:

And I definitely don't know the publisher, then! My understanding from what I could grasp from the broken English (I don't speak German 😞 ) was that Wahrsagekarten was the label.

You weren't technically wrong - I'm looking at a bottle of air freshener right now, and it's labeled "air freshener" (but the brand is Mrs. Meyer's). "Label" doesn't necessarily imply "brand", unless you're talking about a record label. English is a screwy language. 🤔

5 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Although now, knowing the above, it's painting what he said in a new mental light for me. I took "They have bunch of people printing them" as Wahrsagekarten (as a company) producing a lot. Now, I'm taking "they" to mean "people in general."

Anyone with high res scans can put it up on Gamecrafter or similar, and it's surely in the public domain by now.

5 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Hm. I wish I would have found out more (although he was very much a "Are you going to buy things, or are you going to get out? Those are the options" kind of friendly guy). I met with him to get my last couple volumes of "Das Kloster: Weltlich und Geistlich" (I'm obsessed with the plates in them) and it was just a happy coincidence to find he had oracle cards.

I googled Das Kloster - similar style to emblem books, weird and in some case vaguely alchemical. I can see why you like it!