grand tableau layout

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

what is the basis/reasoning behind 4X9 and 4X8 +4?

Is one French and one German based?

Desk space? 

I'm thinking about drawing up my own paper mat and just got to wondering. Thanks! 

[Guest]

Some would have you believe one is German (9x4) and the other French (8 x 4 + 4), yes. Britta Kienle, Alexandra Weng, and Malkiel Dietrich are all German readers who favour the 8 x 4 + 4.  Elvira, who follows the Marco-Goffinet paradigm,  prefers the 9 x 4.  Droesbeke described both in her book.  

 

The 8 x 4 + 4 is the traditional method of laying the Lenormand Oracle insofar as it is described in the original instructions, termed the Philippe Lenormand sheet.  The 19-century text, L'Oracle Parfait, contains a 9 x 4 diagram for the so-called master method which it (incorrectly) attributes to Mlle Le Normand. Later occultists, such as Papus, documented the method, so it spread. 

 

The 9 x 4 seems to have become more popular due to its symmetry, which means the rows can rid in three triples.  It also echoes the 8 x 4 piquet layout.  However, the 8 x 4 + 4 offers more natural symmetry and pairing.  You get the inner carré and the last four cards.  I prefer it; however @katrinka prefers the 9 x 4.  

 

You can also lay the cards out in six rows of six.  That is popular in Russia, again due to popularisation (the late Naina Vladimirova) rather than “schools.” 

 

Experiment. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Guest

[katrinka]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:11 AM, leroidetrèfle said:

Some would have you believe one is German (9x4) and the other French (8 x 4 + 4), yes. Britta Kienle, Alexandra Weng, and Malkiel Dietrich are all German readers who favour the 8 x 4 + 4.  Elvira, who follows the Marco-Goffinet paradigm,  prefers the 9 x 4.  Droesbeke described both in her book.

I never understood how people get the idea that there's some kind of hard divide between France and Germany. From what I gather, it's so easy to just get on a train and travel back and forth between the two. If I could see Paris THAT easily, I'd have done it many times over, and I have no reason to think a lot of Germans wouldn't do the same! And border areas especially are never sharply divided. I'm about 200 miles from the Mexican border, but we get a lot of the culture (and most of us prefer it that way). And what about places like Alsace that could be France or Germany, depending on the time period? Life doesn't organize itself in strict obedience to imaginary lines on maps.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

I never understood how people get the idea that there's some kind of hard divide between France and Germany. From what I gather, it's so easy to just get on a train and travel back and forth between the two. If I could see Paris THAT easily, I'd have done it many times over, and I have no reason to think a lot of Germans wouldn't do the same! And border areas especially are never sharply divided. I'm about 200 miles from the Mexican border, but we get a lot of the culture (and most of us prefer it that way). And what about places like Alsace that could be France or Germany, depending on the time period? Life doesn't organize itself in strict obedience to imaginary lines on maps.

 

In some cases, it is just a passing observation that took on a life of its own.  Other times, it seems to be dogmatism and insecurity.  

 

If you go on a French-speaking group, they are aware of the differences.  You will sometimes see some say in Germany that they associate the Fishes with money (l'argent), et cetera. But the hard and fast rules, if you say the Bear is female, you are German School, no.  

 

I mean Moony is Belgian but follows Mary Marco.  Elvira (Swiss) essentially follows Marco and Goffinet.  However, in her book, she associates the Lilies with sex rather than the Birch.  She uses the 9 x 4.  Britta is German but compare her to Alexandra Weng, Malkiel, Kathe and Iris Treppner...