Mary greer also had an issue with the whole thing about not doing predictive readings, and like you, she pointed out that Benebell IS doing predictive reading in that book. It actually caused a bit of drama on AT, where Benebell eventually showed up to clarify her position. In my humble opinion, she was still in the broom-closet when she wrote this book and I think she didn’t want to go all in, in case someone she knew professionally would read it. She is well beyond that point these days, though. So definitely take those bits with a huge grain of salt, and know that Benebell talks differently about predictive readings today 🙂

I have Benebells book. I may join in now-&-then. She spoke at The London Tarot Conference one year - the year she released her Tarot deck.

"In my humble opinion, she was still in the broom-closet when she wrote this book..."

Yes - I believe she is a lawyer. Cutting place to be thought to be "Woo Woo".

16 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

Mary greer also had an issue with the whole thing about not doing predictive readings, and like you, she pointed out that Benebell IS doing predictive reading in that book. It actually caused a bit of drama on AT, where Benebell eventually showed up to clarify her position. In my humble opinion, she was still in the broom-when she wrote this book and I think she didn’t want to go all in, in case someone she knew professionally would read it. She is well beyond that point these days, though. So definitely take those bits with a huge grain of salt, and know that Benebell talks differently about predictive readings today 🙂

My opinion was always that being certified was kind of a moot point.  In my opinion, you can't certify things like whether or not a person can give legitimate Tarot readings any more than you can certify someone's ability to dream in color during sleep.  Benebell's bio in the back of the book says she has certification from the Tarot Certification Board of America and that she's a Tarot master.  I've been called a Tarot master myself a time or time or two, but I'm almost 80 years old and have been reading Tarot for over 20 years.  Even so, I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a master of the craft.  However, I'm happy to respect that her opinion is different than mine and that she's obviously put in a whole bunch of research, blood, sweat and tears to write this book.  There's still a ton of information in it that I'm investigating and I'm happy to learn what I can from it.  l'll just leave whatever I don't find useful. 

I wonder if that discussion with Benebell is still available on the saved part of AT. I haven't gone there to explore.

8 hours ago, Grizabella said:

Benebell's bio in the back of the book says she has certification from the Tarot Certification Board of America and that she's a Tarot master.  I've been called a Tarot master myself a time or time or two, but I'm almost 80 years old and have been reading Tarot for over 20 years.  Even so, I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a master of the craft...

In this era where everyone wants a piece of paper as proof of what you can do (just like everything has to be scientifically proven to be "true") - having some letters after your name is always useful. Particularly in specific circles that one may live in or frequent (as I said - the world of the lawyer is a cutting one).

When I did my Tarot course years ago at The College of Psychic Studies - I asked the teacher for a certificate at the end. She didn't usually give out certificates to people who had not studied in-house at her own shop - but she did for me luckily. So I have a piece of paper for my Tarot reading.  One also needs flipping insurance to cover Tarot reading these days in public sometimes - so having proof that you've studied helps towards getting that sort of thing.

To add to that - also being part of an official structured Association that recognises you as well practiced, is helpful

and gives assurance to the public.

8 hours ago, Tanga said:

One also needs flipping insurance to cover Tarot reading these days in public sometimes

Ugh, give me a break!  Really?  I could see that if you have members of the public coming into your home or office, but in public?

On 8/12/2025 at 10:34 AM, geoxena said:

 

Ugh, give me a break!  Really?  I could see that if you gmembers of the public coming into your home or office, but in public?

If you have a printed statement on your website or on your business cards or on a little sign on your table at fairs stating that your services are for entertainment purposes only, that pretty much protects you from lawsuits.  On the bottom of my webpage I've put this disclaimer:

Your common sense and careful judgment about  any actions you take after the reading are your own responsibility.

The reason I made up my own disclaimer is because I really dislike the "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer.  It seems like a cop-out to me when I know that finally, at long last, Tarot and other so-called psychic abilities have been scientifically proven to be real and legitimate by double blind scientific studies.  (Most people probably know about double blind studies.) In my younger days, ESP is what some called this kind of thing and nobody had figured out how to scientifically prove it exists.  Dean Radin, PhD has written several books over the years and his latest one called Real Magic even mentions Tarot.  My disclaimer may not be elegant but it seems good to me.  

On 8/17/2025 at 10:47 PM, Grizabella said:

 

If you have a printed statement on your website or on your business cards or on a little sign on your table at fairs stating that your services are for entertainment purposes only, that pretty much protects you from lawsuits.  On the bottom of my webpage I've put this disclaimer:

 

Your common sense and careful judgment about  any actions you take after the reading are your own responsibility.

 

The reason I made up my own disclaimer is because I really dislike the "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer.  It seems like a cop-out to me when I know that finally, at long last, Tarot and other so-called psychic abilities have been scientifically proven to be real and legitimate by double blind scientific studies.  (Most people probably know about double blind studies.) In my younger days, ESP is what some called this kind of thing and nobody had figured out how to scientifically prove it exists.  Dean Radin, PhD has written several books over the years and his latest one called Real Magic even mentions Tarot.  My disclaimer may not be elegant but it seems good to me.  

 

 

Oh yes, there is also the disclaimer.

Some people love being called Sifu (Sensei) and having all the letters after their names.

Other's just want to be called by their first name.

Reasons & influences may vary - internal and external.

The proof is in how you find the pudding personally.

On 8/12/2025 at 10:02 AM, Grizabella said:

My opinion was always that being certified was kind of a moot point. 

Yes. There are many mediums who go on stage and do wonderful readings for the audience, but they're not qualified. And many aren't university educated.

I wonder are these certifications based on knowing card meanings by rote, or by providing accurate readings (that might not be book meanings, but be intuitive?) Has anyone had a reading from Benebell? 

They (as far as I could see)  were rote meanings  judging by the information I could glean on the AT forum.  AT didn't offer certification but there was quite a bit of discussion about the subject when that forum was active.

I've never had a reading by Benebell or known anyone who has. I hadn't heard of her till her book came out.  But she does certainly have a lot of Tarot knowledge I can tell by reading the book.  She's done lots and lots of research.

@JoyousGirl I have seen one tarot reading that Benebell did (not for me, it was someone else who showed the reading they had bought from Benebell). It contained a lot of copy pasted meanings from her book. The person in question was not pleased with the quality of reading that they got. 
 

In a way, I wasn’t surprised. She does the same for many of her astrology readings, but there she is up front about why she’s does that - it is to save time and be able to offer more affordable readings. So she has pre-typed sections for all the astrological combinations and then she paste those into your reading. I have bought one such reading from her and it was rather obvious that she had pasted the whole thing (which I already knew she would do). It didn’t bring harmony to the reading as a whole. Nonetheless, it was a fun experience and that is also why I purchased it in the first place, to get an enjoyable and affordable experience. My expectations were not too high and I feel like she delivered what she said she would. 
 

In the end though, I did also have another reading by a trainee astrologer which ended up being even more affordable, and the quality was actually way higher and more personal than Benebells reading, so I don’t think I necessarily would recommend getting one of her copy-pasted ones. If you buy an in-person reading I am sure it’s more personal. 

2 hours ago, Grizabella said:

She's done lots and lots of research.

I read over 30 to 50 articles for each subject when I did my degree. That didn't make me an expert or any good at what the topic would require of me out in the field. Anyone can copy and paste (that's what research is really, plagiarism of other peoples' ideas).

I wouldn't buy any of her books because it feels to me like she's just using other people's ideas for easy money. There seems to be a lack of integrity - this is confirmed, so it seems, by

16 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

the reading they had bought from Benebell). It contained a lot of copy pasted meanings from her book. The person in question was not pleased with the quality of reading that they got. 

I would be pissed off and want my money back too. It is not a reading - it is a copy and paste. This is another way of getting - in my opinion as I said before - easy money. I feel there's no individual care or real expertise and nuance. She probably just takes 2 minutes by keyword searching and pasting for each reading. Disgraceful, really, in my opinion.  Many years ago I said I wouldn't want to charge people for readings unless I was certain I was really good - because people are often coming to readers because they are in desperate need of help. 

I'm not only old chronologically, but I'm "old" in my approach to Tarot, too, and I always try to be tactful and respectful of the rules here on TT&M because there are rules here like no third party readings and I think reading predictively and doing relationship readings are all not really encouraged and, in some instances, not allowed.  I left the forum for extended periods of time more than once because I didn't feel I was a good fit.  

I'm also respectful of the fact that Benebell is a "new" reader and has a newer and more modernized approach to her own Tarot business.  I can tell she's not especially experienced yet, but as I've said, she's done a lot of research and I admire that.. I wish her well.

I don't believe reading the cards carries a lot of taboos, however.  If you're pushing your own do's and don'ts on your seeker, then that's not the spirit I'd follow.  If a sitter comes to me with the same question once a week., then so be it. We'll ask the cards to see what they say once a week.  I'm paid to do that, but I don't have the right to tell the sitter she's asking too often. 

If a reader cuts and pastes, then her readings may very well not be good readings and won't get much return business. In that case, then she'll notice and may reconsider how she does things.  She might prefer continuing just as she is and that's okay too.

In short, I'm just going to go through the book and try some of the readings, learn whatever I find useful and I'm sure in 877 pages I'll find stuff I didn't know.  It's enjoyable, anyway.  

My first impression when the certification thing was brought up on AT was that it was someone's way of earning a few bucks and fluffing up their own ego. I wasn't interested in that.  

I'm sorry you feel the forum discouraged you @Grizabella with your readings. We were always fine with reading predictively and relationship readings. We just had to stop all the third-party readings for various reasons. One it was getting out of hand and people were not careful about identifying who they were reading on, this faced us with potential legal issues and ethical issues about privacy. The other is that people used to complain about these readings all the time to us. We just want readings centred on the person and we allow thoughts and feelings in relationship readings of the other person. We were just tired of "what do I need to know about his wife? are they unhappy?". We were never gatekeepers of reading methods on this forum, also like on AT, you could do whatever method you wanted and predictive readings were fine. 

Some people have joined us here from other communities and said that there was a real nastiness if you posted a predictive reading and "fortune telling" was not allowed. I think as a tarot trend, from the 2010's to just into the 2020's, predictive readings became frowned upon. Readings should be self-help or advice or psychological. Some books / authors and communities really enforced that idea. It's hilarious though because someone would get a relationship reading with advice and the last card(s) would be how will it work out in future? or will they marry? but that is not fortune-telling. It was always all fortune-telling.

So on this forum, we always welcome whatever methods and boundaries people want to read with. Some people don't do predictive readings or about someone else's thoughts, that is their method. I read predictively and love it, I am a fortune-teller, not just an advice giver.

Benebell's first book came out near the start of the "fortune telling is bad" trend, so it's a thing of it's time. Also one thing was that it wasn't just someone doesn't like predictive readings but plenty of authors and communities evangelised against fortune-telling, there is only "one true way". I think tarot has trends and cycles, a new method or idea will be come popular and it all moves on.

At the end of the 2010's, tarot became really popular. There have been more sales of RWS decks in the last ten years, than at any time of it's publishing. It's gone huge. When Covid happened, astrology started to get really popular with young people and I think they wanted to read what was coming up for them and their future after the pandemic. So with the rise of astrology, I think predictive readings in tarot has come back.

Obviously, you can read in whatever way you want 🙂 

I think on both this forum and AT, we have always been hugely sceptical of the certificates. They are so expensive now for some of those courses to get one. I remember on AT someone made a certificate you could print for anyone to say they were a certified professional reader 🙂 

6 hours ago, Grizabella said:

1) I'm not only old chronologically, but I'm "old" in my approach to Tarot, too, and I always try to be tactful and respectful of the rules

 

2) In short, I'm just going to go through the book and try some of the readings, learn whatever I find useful and I'm sure in 877 pages I'll find stuff I didn't know.  It's enjoyable, anyway.  

 

1) There's no doubt in my mind Griz - that you are a "master" (or mistress if you prefer) - whether you agree with that or not.

2) 👍

It's okay, Daniel. I've got a favorite saying---"Feelings aren't facts"---but I don't always remember to apply it to myself.  

I know the changes that have come about over the years and I can also understand the  "why" of many of the rules wherever they're found.  I respect any forum's rules.  I was getting quite discouraged with myself, though, because it seemed like even though I was trying to do things right, time after time I was stepping on the rules and having to be corrected. I've no quibble with the corrections, but it was embarrassing and it caused work for others so I dropped out.  

In coming back now and paying up a year's worth of membership all at one time, my personal resolution is to just stick to keeping up with my blog and not to be so chatty or opinionated.  

2 hours ago, Grizabella said:

not to be so chatty or opinionated.

I want to hear/read what you've got to say and your opinions. Whatever they are. They're you. 

Hopefully whatever you say here in your blog, as your personal space, means other people who get precious of what you've got to say can shove it. Maybe put a notice like Gregory to say you'll get around to offending everyone soon 😛 (I should take my own advice there...) Everyone is trying to be someone, conforming to social rules that are bent and twisted, in some sense of trying to be someone special. Composing carefully crafted communication is really a form of censoring - and that's a slippery slope. It whitewashes the messiness of reality. We all go to the lavatory. Saying that, I understand why there are rules here on TTM and the implications.

An evolution in human consciousness is when we don't like what others think, do or say, but we don't freeze them out. Our opinions are not us, but we can take it very personally when they're challenged. Don't bar yourself, don't censor yourself. 

Anyway, don't worry what others think. I'm thinking of a quote from Henepola Gunaratana discovered through Bodhiseed a couple of weeks ago:

Somewhere in this process you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking gibbering madhouse on wheels barreling pell-mell down the hill utterly out of control and hopeless. No problem. You are not crazier than you were yesterday. It has always been this way, and you just never noticed. You are also no crazier than everybody else around you. The only real difference is that you have confronted the situation they have not.

May we all confront ourselves 💜 Looking forward to reading more from you.

3 hours ago, Grizabella said:

...just stick to keeping up with my blog and not to be so chatty or opinionated.  

Alla JoyousGirl - allow yourself to be who you are.

5 hours ago, JoyousGirl said:

I want to hear/read what you've got to say and your opinions. Whatever they are. They're you. 

There are no rules against being chatty or opinionated (which I’m personally very thankful for 😊 I was totally the kid who always got in trouble for talking too much in class ! 😁 ) Share your opinions, I’ll grab a cuppa and look forward to anything you have to on your mind! ☺️

9 hours ago, Grizabella said:

It's okay, Daniel. I've got a favorite saying---"Feelings aren't facts"---but I don't always remember to apply it to myself.  

 

I know the changes that have come about over the years and I can also understand the  "why" of many of the rules wherever they're found.  I respect any forum's rules.  I was getting quite discouraged with myself, though, because it seemed like even though I was trying to do things right, time after time I was stepping on the rules and having to be corrected. I've no quibble with the corrections, but it was embarrassing and it caused work for others so I dropped out.  

 

In coming back now and paying up a year's worth of membership all at one time, my personal resolution is to just stick to keeping up with my blog and not to be so chatty or opinionated.  

You post as you find ,Griz. I very VERY often don't agree with you -but I absolutely support your right to be heard as yourself.  Like you I have felt discouraged here when expressing my views.

Which in this thread are - as I had not got around to saying yet - that - this is a book I don’t like at all; it tries to be all things to all men and fails to be much of anything to anyone. I have never had a paid reading from her - but because of her book, I wouldn't ask for one. I also don't much like her deck reviews on her website, which seem more about keeping herself in the public eye than saying a whole lot that helps to get a real opinion of the deck she discusses. (her taste and mine also diverge significantly - but that's OK, of course!!)

7 hours ago, JoyousGirl said:

I want to hear/read what you've got to say and your opinions. Whatever they are. They're you. 

May we all confront ourselves 💜 Looking forward to reading more from you.

 

This, so much. Even though I have to say I rarely agree with you - as you must know after all these years ! I like to hear you say what I disagree with; it still makes me think. Opposing views are not a war. It's a shame if this place has to be nicey nice at all times - it stifles so much. Excellent discussions are often noisy.

1 hour ago, Raggydoll said:

There are no rules against being chatty or opinionated

This is true - bu it can feel that way.

12 minutes ago, gregory said:

This is true - bu it can feel that way.

I get that. As you know, I read predictively, on all sorts of topics, and I definitely censor what I share here. But I do reserve my right to be very opinionated 😁 

14 minutes ago, gregory said:

Like you I have felt discouraged here when expressing my views.

That makes me so sad to hear! 

On 8/12/2025 at 11:04 AM, Tanga said:

One also needs flipping insurance to cover Tarot reading these days in public sometimes

On 8/12/2025 at 7:34 PM, geoxena said:

Ugh, give me a break!  Really?  I could see that if you have members of the public coming into your home or office, but in public?

It does depend an the law of the country you are living in, but yes, indeed.

It also depends on the friggin' language and wording (yeah, both) you are using. "Fortunetelling" may be punishable, while "predicitve reading" may be not, again, depending on country.

Here in germany, customers can legally skip the payment if you've been sloppy with the contract, specifically you have to include that both parties agree on compensation, fully acknowledging the "impossibility of the service". Which hurts, truly. It is not even the end of the rope.

By german law, that contract is void if

a) you somehow source your ability on the supernatural (magic, angels, spirits, spiritual ancestors, guides, life's energy et cetera ad infinitum)

b) the customer is in a difficult/unsettling life situation, aka "a pinch", for they then can claim the "weak-willed/susceptible" attribute, making your offer an "immoral" one (contra bonos mores).

On 8/17/2025 at 11:47 PM, Grizabella said:

Your common sense and careful judgment about any actions you take after the reading are your own responsibility.

I like a lot.

For german readers: Sadly, the above citation is not lawproof.

3 hours ago, gregory said:

 

10 hours ago, JoyousGirl said:

I want to hear/read what you've got to say and your opinions. Whatever they are. They're you. 

May we all confront ourselves 💜 Looking forward to reading more from you.

 

 

This, so much. Even though I have to say I rarely agree with you - as you must know after all these years ! I like to hear you say what I disagree with; it still makes me think. Opposing views are not a war. It's a shame if this place has to be nicey nice at all times - it stifles so much. Excellent discussions are often noisy.

Wow. I love. Talking diversity and living it are two very different things - the former seems way easier than the latter.

Concerning this forum, it feels to me like the tides carry me here every so often, and then I'm off again for some months - certainly not the worst of feelings, I have to admit.

Apart from that, from watching this forum develop, it does age and rejuvenate nicely, doesn't it?

3 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

3 hours ago, gregory said:

This is true - bu it can feel that way.

I get that. As you know, I read predictively, on all sorts of topics, and I definitely censor what I share here.

Tides.

Mighty flippant, but: Tides.

On the self-censorship: Indeed.

For various reasons it has to be (oh, epic <.<'...), however, I feel there are two types of censorship: The heart-closing one and the heart-opening one.

If I censor myself in fear of back(s)lash, my chest feels numb inside.

If I censor myself in care of my clientele or what is precious to me, my chest feels warm inside.

8 hours ago, gregory said:

I like to hear you say what I disagree with; it still makes me think.

This! When someone here says something I don't agree with, it makes me think things through more than "Yes, I agree," does. (Not that I mind when people do agree with me! 😂)

The only thing I don't like is when people present what works for them as the way everyone should be doing it. That doesn't come up much here though, especially with members who've stayed on a while. Usually if someone is 'preaching' about how you should read, they leave the forum pretty quickly when there's some pushback.

As for Holistic Tarot, it's a combination of generalist self-improvement/spiritual path info and specific processes she presents, like picking a significator via 4 piles of cards based on the tetragrammaton.  It's not for me, personally. And since it says early on it's not for predictive tarot, it's not a resource for that.

I also agree that having an "Outcome" position means reading predictively, at least for that card.  

7 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

This! When someone here says something I don't agree with, it makes me think things through more than "Yes, I agree," does. (Not that I mind when people do agree with me! 😂)

 

The only thing I don't like is when people present what works for them as the way everyone should be doing it. That doesn't come up much here though, especially with members who've stayed on a while. Usually if someone is 'preaching' about how you should read, they leave the forum pretty quickly when there's some pushback

 

As for Holistic Tarot, it's a combination of generalist self-improvement/spiritual path info and specific processes she presents, like picking a significator via 4 piles of cards based on the tetragrammaton.  It's not for me, personally. And since it says early on it's not for predictive tarot, it's not a resource for that.

 

I also agree that having an "Outcome" position means reading predictively, at least for that card.