New deck confusion

[Curiosity]

Hello guys, 

 

(this ended up being too long, so I just summed it up in the end for those who maybe want to help but don't want to read it all)

 

I'm writing to ask for some help. So, as I said here before, I'm pretty new to tarot. I've been using mostly the vivid journey deck, and I'm still in the process of learning the cards, the readings, etc. But then the other day I went to a store, to buy something else entirely, and ended up leaving the store with a new deck, mostly because I really liked the imagery. It's called "Tarot of druids". When I got home and read the little booklet that comes with it I was actually really happy because, even though I knew it was a Celtic tarot, I realized it is specially based on irish mithology and characters. I have a special fondness for Ireland. I´ve lived there for a while and it is really close to my heart. Then I got to the actual cards, and that´s when I got really confused. I think maybe it´s not a good deck for me as a beginner. 

 

The major arcana are all inspired by ancient Irish traditions, from mithology to historical figures. The minor arcana were "conceived as a series of images of Celtic life connected with Druidic culture" (quoting the booklet). But the images in some cards are very different from RW and RW-based decks. The thing is, I don't understand how to approach this deck. I know the imagery matters, I try to take this into account when reading (even though I find it really hard), but in this case the imagery can be too different in some cases, so I get lost. It's not like just a "twist" on the images (at least as far as my understanding goes). I don't really understand to which extent the imagery is more important than the "traditional" meanings, if reading the imagery means leaving these aside or if they're still taken into account. If they still keep something like "an essence" of the card, of it can be a completely new meaning according to the picture. 

 

Even the descriptions on the booklet are a bit confusing, because they sometimes don't seem to match the card. For instance, the description of the eight of cups is just "future wealth, intense emotional life, shyness, pangs of love". And this is the card:

 

 

I don't understand how they got to that description from this image. So I don't know if I should rely on the image alone, the booklet suggestion or the "traditional" meaning as well. 

 

Another example would be the three of swords. The description is "Experience that helps, ability to assess situations, hasty solutions". I do understand how the three of swords can be related to learning from experience and, in this case, the card shows that. It doesn't say anything on the booklet about the "heartbreak" side of the card though, and I don't see it in the image as well. So, such cases, how should I go about this? Should I read it excluding this interpretation? This is the card:

 

 

When it comes to the Major Arcana, I figured I should just research the characters portraid, but I don't know if I'm "doing this right". The fool, for instance, is named Fintan Mac Bóchra. This is the card:

 

 

So, I read about him and the card made sense. There is a reason why the fish (salmon) and the birds (eagle and hawk) are there, and also for him to be surrounded by water like that. It's about the Deluge, the one from the Bible, and how he survived it by turning into each of those animals. The salmon and the hawk in the mithology are related to wisdom, and Fintan himself, represents the knowledge of a people, survival of wisdom, their mithology, etc. So I understand maybe the card could be about that, and about being able to addapt to different situations. But the card itself gives me a very different vibe than what we usually see in the Fool. When I first saw it, before I knew he could turn into those animals, it felt more to me like he was trapped than that he was beginning his journey. Again, I don't understand to what extent I should let what I already know about the fool from other decks influence me in reading this. 

 

I'm doing the same for the other characters, reading the story, trying to relate it to the images and to what I already know. The magician, for instance, is represented by a god called Lugh, who actually has many characteristics usually related to the magician, and some others as well. 

 

TLDR: This is already getting too long, but now I think I could've summarized it just by asking: When it comes to decks with different images, should I take the "traditional" meanings into account, to some extent, or should I just go with what the image tells me? 

 

I appreciate any input, since I am really lost 😆. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stephanelli]

2 hours ago, Curiosity said:

TLDR: This is already getting too long, but now I think I could've summarized it just by asking: When it comes to decks with different images, should I take the "traditional" meanings into account, to some extent, or should I just go with what the image tells me? 

Hiya, great question!

If it were me, for this deck I would use the meanings that the author has put with the cards and the intuitive ideas that come from the card when I look at it.  Personally, I can see where they got the meanings you've shared from in the pictures.

 

I don't think that there is any point trying to fit a set of traditional meanings to a card that isn't anything like it (,e.g. the three of Swords).  I have a couple of decks like this, they give much better readings if I work with what the creator intended.  Yes, I'm essentially saying that you can either use it entirely intuitively or you need to learn another set of meanings just for this deck (although there will likely be some similarities to traditional).

[Curiosity]

7 hours ago, stephanelli said:

Hiya, great question!

If it were me, for this deck I would use the meanings that the author has put with the cards and the intuitive ideas that come from the card when I look at it.  Personally, I can see where they got the meanings you've shared from in the pictures.

 

I don't think that there is any point trying to fit a set of traditional meanings to a card that isn't anything like it (,e.g. the three of Swords).  I have a couple of decks like this, they give much better readings if I work with what the creator intended.  Yes, I'm essentially saying that you can either use it entirely intuitively or you need to learn another set of meanings just for this deck (although there will likely be some similarities to traditional).

Hello! 

 

I have actually tried what you suggested soon after I posted this thread, with this "interview your deck" spread I saw on YouTube. I based the reading on the info in the booklet and in what I got from the images and honestly, it seemed to be a good reading. It made a lot of sense and I was able to (mostly) relate the cards to one another, what usually doesn't come easily to me. But still I wasn't sure if it could be done this way, so your reply was very helpful! I feel more "secure" in doing it like this now.  Thank you so much! 😊

 

 

[stephanelli]

3 hours ago, Curiosity said:

Hello! 

 

I have actually tried what you suggested soon after I posted this thread, with this "interview your deck" spread I saw on YouTube. I based the reading on the info in the booklet and in what I got from the images and honestly, it seemed to be a good reading. It made a lot of sense and I was able to (mostly) relate the cards to one another, what usually doesn't come easily to me. But still I wasn't sure if it could be done this way, so your reply was very helpful! I feel more "secure" in doing it like this now.  Thank you so much! 😊

 

 

Yep, it can totally be done in this way.  I have some decks that I literally can't read any other way.  It means more learning initially, but especially if you're just reading for yourself, and even for friends and family, don't be afraid to look in the book to clarify an answer of you can't quite remember.

 

Also, whatever anyone says (me included), this is your journey and your reading, you can use the cards however you like it if it means you are getting readings that make sense for you.

[DanielJUK]

@Curiosity you pose a great post! There is no strict rule in this in tarot, you can make tarot work how you want and how it reads best for you. The "perfect" situation is that you read the cards and see your own messages and answers in the cards, the artwork calls to your intuition. As you have found out the book is just a guide and sometimes they are very poorly written and an afterthought to the deck creation, other times you might completely disagree with the takes and interpretations. For me, the most important is what you get from the cards, your interpretation. Some of us are more intuitive and others are more reference /studying to understand the cards, but most of us mix techniques. Also experience and getting used to the cards helps shape our reading and makes them better.

 

So in your reading of this card art....

 

1. use your intuition, what do you see in the cards to you? some people meditate on them, some people make a story (like you) and I see what I get from the card on all my senses, how do I feel? see? There are different techniques you can use but you are getting this info yourself, what comes to you.

 

2. use what you have learnt and studied. for example the 3 of Pentacles is a 3 (numerology) of Pentacles the material suit, so all 3 of P have a similar "structure" even if the card is different in art, this is the reference method, it gives logic to the intuitive. in terms of this deck you might want to use Irish mythology with the deck cards, what does it mean in Celtic mythology?

 

3. use the book that comes with a deck, it's just a guidance but it's my back up and gives structure to the meaning with reference meanings and ideas. Often I read the book text and inspires or triggers my own ideas or shapes how I see the card.

 

If you think of it as 3 tiers of reading a card, the deck info or book is the foundation of the reading ideas, what you have learnt and study gives the middle tier and structure and your intuition and working is the top tier and something that really improves with practice and wisdom. I have found you get the best readings from the intuition reading of the card, it must always come first but there is a place for the other parts as well in a reading and sometimes it's so difficult to read a card intuitively 🙂

 

Ultimately this is about finding your own reading method, but you don't have to use the book or put it above your own ideas. good luck with it!

[LogicalHue]

I like to go with a mix. For me its about what actually makes sense with the other cards. I did a reading a little while back where the card from the deck and the book's explanation were pretty different from the usual idea and together with the other cards it was just nonsense, but the more RWS definition fit right in. It can be frustrating in some readings and with some decks though when it just causes a bit more confusion. If I can I rely on the visual cues to help point me in the direction of which way to think about it, that's always nice, but sometimes that just isn't there or isn't helpful.

 

Anyway TLDR 😉 I think its case by case what makes sense in the reading and what you're comfortable with.

[Curiosity]

Thank you guys for your replies, this has been such a good experience for me! I'm getting a lot of help in this forum and I hope some day I'll be in a place where I can help others as well. 

On 8/18/2020 at 6:39 PM, stephanelli said:

Yep, it can totally be done in this way.  I have some decks that I literally can't read any other way.  It means more learning initially, but especially if you're just reading for yourself, and even for friends and family, don't be afraid to look in the book to clarify an answer of you can't quite remember.

 

Also, whatever anyone says (me included), this is your journey and your reading, you can use the cards however you like it if it means you are getting readings that make sense for you.

 

Yeah, I don't mind the learning process, I actually really like it. I have started reading about Irish mithology to understand this deck better and it has been quite a pleasure. I only do it as a hobby anyway, so there's no rush. I think that, to me, tarot has been more about the journey than about getting answers, IDK. 

On 8/19/2020 at 12:43 AM, DanielJUK said:

@Curiosity you pose a great post! There is no strict rule in this in tarot, you can make tarot work how you want and how it reads best for you. The "perfect" situation is that you read the cards and see your own messages and answers in the cards, the artwork calls to your intuition. As you have found out the book is just a guide and sometimes they are very poorly written and an afterthought to the deck creation, other times you might completely disagree with the takes and interpretations. For me, the most important is what you get from the cards, your interpretation. Some of us are more intuitive and others are more reference /studying to understand the cards, but most of us mix techniques. Also experience and getting used to the cards helps shape our reading and makes them better.

 

So in your reading of this card art....

 

1. use your intuition, what do you see in the cards to you? some people meditate on them, some people make a story (like you) and I see what I get from the card on all my senses, how do I feel? see? There are different techniques you can use but you are getting this info yourself, what comes to you.

 

2. use what you have learnt and studied. for example the 3 of Pentacles is a 3 (numerology) of Pentacles the material suit, so all 3 of P have a similar "structure" even if the card is different in art, this is the reference method, it gives logic to the intuitive. in terms of this deck you might want to use Irish mythology with the deck cards, what does it mean in Celtic mythology?

 

3. use the book that comes with a deck, it's just a guidance but it's my back up and gives structure to the meaning with reference meanings and ideas. Often I read the book text and inspires or triggers my own ideas or shapes how I see the card.

 

If you think of it as 3 tiers of reading a card, the deck info or book is the foundation of the reading ideas, what you have learnt and study gives the middle tier and structure and your intuition and working is the top tier and something that really improves with practice and wisdom. I have found you get the best readings from the intuition reading of the card, it must always come first but there is a place for the other parts as well in a reading and sometimes it's so difficult to read a card intuitively 🙂

 

Ultimately this is about finding your own reading method, but you don't have to use the book or put it above your own ideas. good luck with it!

Hello! Thank you for your help! Yeah, I think so far I have been more about referencing/studying. I guess that, as beginners, (well, I dont't know how it is for other people but I imagine a similar process) we have this idea that "this card card means this, and this card means that", and it is along the process that we realize things are not as set in stone as we would think. I have been trying to listen to my intuition lately, but it is still not easy for me. I have a very hard time telling intuition from desire, or fear, or whatever - not just with tarot, in life as a whole. One of the reasons I have started learning tarot though was to develop my intuition, so I think I should keep trying. 

 

The other deck I use (Vivid Journey Tarot) came with a great book, and it's been really helpful. There is a picture and a page with suggestions for every card, and she often explains her use of colours, symbols, etc. It helped me create connections and get "the feeling" of each card. There's also a little bit about tarot history, the numbers, the suits, meaning of colours, and the fools journey. This other one now is completely different, and the booklet is not very good, so as you said, I'm going more with what I see in the card. I pull a card for the next day, try to get something from it (what it reminds me of, the colours, the situation shown, etc), and in the end of the next day I go back to the card. It's been fun and hopefully it will help me understand this deck better. 

On 8/19/2020 at 2:19 AM, LogicalHue said:

I like to go with a mix. For me its about what actually makes sense with the other cards. I did a reading a little while back where the card from the deck and the book's explanation were pretty different from the usual idea and together with the other cards it was just nonsense, but the more RWS definition fit right in. It can be frustrating in some readings and with some decks though when it just causes a bit more confusion. If I can I rely on the visual cues to help point me in the direction of which way to think about it, that's always nice, but sometimes that just isn't there or isn't helpful.

 

Anyway TLDR 😉 I think its case by case what makes sense in the reading and what you're comfortable with.

Hello! Thank you for answering! Relating one card to another is still hard for me, but I have been trying to do that, so that I have a more cohesive reading. The deck I use mostly though is very close to RW, so it seems easier. I haven't really used the new deck yet, only for drawing a daily card, so this situation you described in which the booklet meaning doesn't make sense whereas the RW does haven't happened yet. Maybe in this case I'll have to go for a mix as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dust]

Personally, I'd read up on the story behind each of the cards. Trying to figure out if you can see the connection between the figures and legends the artist picked and the traditional meanings might be a good exercise! You can learn about the traditional meanings while also finding out about some of the different ways people can interpret them. I do this a lot.

 

Ultimately, if you don't feel like the artist's interpretations of the card make sense to you, that's perfectly ok. I think we all have decks that we don't use to read or wouldn't even buy because their take on this or that card just doesn't feel "right" to us. Sometimes you can get through it and read it with that in mind, sometimes it doesn't work out, and it's no big deal. 🙂 You can always try to use it for intuitive reading... or just keep it for the theme/art if you like it.

[katrinka]

 

Quote

The major arcana are all inspired by ancient Irish traditions, from mithology to historical figures. The minor arcana were "conceived as a series of images of Celtic life connected with Druidic culture" (quoting the booklet).

There's a red flag. Very little is known about Druid culture, since they didn't keep records. We have only sketchy secondhand accounts from Caesar and other Romans. Nothing from any actual Druids.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Druid
Toss the booklet. (But if you ever hear of a Druid-themed Burning Man festival, don't go! Eep! 🤯)

Quote

Even the descriptions on the booklet are a bit confusing, because they sometimes don't seem to match the card. For instance, the description of the eight of cups is just "future wealth, intense emotional life, shyness, pangs of love". And this is the card:

...

I don't understand how they got to that description from this image. So I don't know if I should rely on the image alone, the booklet suggestion or the "traditional" meaning as well. 

If you really want to use this deck, ignore the LWB and RWS. Go with the images. Look up the associated myths, as you've done already with Fintan Mac Bóchra. You'll need to find your own way.
This might be a good deck for the 78 Week Study.

Quote

 

Another example would be the three of swords. The description is "Experience that helps, ability to assess situations, hasty solutions". I do understand how the three of swords can be related to learning from experience and, in this case, the card shows that. It doesn't say anything on the booklet about the "heartbreak" side of the card though, and I don't see it in the image as well. So, such cases, how should I go about this? Should I read it excluding this interpretation? This is the card:

Yes, scrap that interpretation, he doesn't look sad at all.
Maybe this relates to Goibniu and the Tuatha de Danann?

Quote

When it comes to the Major Arcana, I figured I should just research the characters portraid, but I don't know if I'm "doing this right". The fool, for instance, is named Fintan Mac Bóchra. This is the card:

 

 

So, I read about him and the card made sense. There is a reason why the fish (salmon) and the birds (eagle and hawk) are there, and also for him to be surrounded by water like that. It's about the Deluge, the one from the Bible, and how he survived it by turning into each of those animals. The salmon and the hawk in the mithology are related to wisdom, and Fintan himself, represents the knowledge of a people, survival of wisdom, their mithology, etc. So I understand maybe the card could be about that, and about being able to addapt to different situations.

Yes! You're doing this right!
Some boss at Lo Scarabeo probably said "Do a Celtic deck, Celtic sells. And name it after Druids,too.  Number it like a Tarot so people buy it. And we'll get one of our guys to bang out a LWB this week. He doesn't have to see the cards. Nobody uses those LWBs, anyway."
But the ARTIST did his homework. So what you have here is a deck of Celtic myths. That's pretty cool, and it could be a great reading deck if you don't try to forcefit RWS meanings or that crazy LWB. Let the myths speak on their own. 😉
 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by katrinka

[Curiosity]

On 8/30/2020 at 2:02 AM, dust said:

Personally, I'd read up on the story behind each of the cards. Trying to figure out if you can see the connection between the figures and legends the artist picked and the traditional meanings might be a good exercise! You can learn about the traditional meanings while also finding out about some of the different ways people can interpret them. I do this a lot.

 

Ultimately, if you don't feel like the artist's interpretations of the card make sense to you, that's perfectly ok. I think we all have decks that we don't use to read or wouldn't even buy because their take on this or that card just doesn't feel "right" to us. Sometimes you can get through it and read it with that in mind, sometimes it doesn't work out, and it's no big deal. 🙂 You can always try to use it for intuitive reading... or just keep it for the theme/art if you like it.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do now. I am first looking up the stories, trying to understand each card and then seeing if they relate somehow to the traditional meanings. I'm not sure if I'm gonna be using this one for readings yet, it depends on where this study will take me. But I don' regret buying it though, I like the pictures so much! 😆 Thank you for your help!

 

On 8/30/2020 at 3:38 AM, katrinka said:

 

There's a red flag. Very little is known about Druid culture, since they didn't keep records. We have only sketchy secondhand accounts from Caesar and other Romans. Nothing from any actual Druids.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Druid
Toss the booklet. (But if you ever hear of a Druid-themed Burning Man festival, don't go! Eep! 🤯)

If you really want to use this deck, ignore the LWB and RWS. Go with the images. Look up the associated myths, as you've done already with Fintan Mac Bóchra. You'll need to find your own way.
This might be a good deck for the 78 Week Study.

 

Yeah, I found out about that - what you said about the druids not leaving records - once I started researching. I was a bit disapointed, I confess. But then I figured it might not be such a problem, specially when it comes to the Major Arcana because they are based on irish mithology and historical figures, so I guess it might be ok?

I'm not sure I'm doing the 78 Weeks Study yet, since I tend to not finish things I start, and 78 weeks is a looooong way to go hahaha. But I'm tempted!

On 8/30/2020 at 3:38 AM, katrinka said:

Yes, scrap that interpretation, he doesn't look sad at all.

Maybe this relates to Goibniu and the Tuatha de Danann?

I have no idea what "Goibniu and the Tuatha de Danann" means yet 😆 But I'll look it up.Thanks for the tip!

On 8/30/2020 at 3:38 AM, katrinka said:

Yes! You're doing this right!
Some boss at Lo Scarabeo probably said "Do a Celtic deck, Celtic sells. And name it after Druids,too.  Number it like a Tarot so people buy it. And we'll get one of our guys to bang out a LWB this week. He doesn't have to see the cards. Nobody uses those LWBs, anyway."
But the ARTIST did his homework. So what you have here is a deck of Celtic myths. That's pretty cool, and it could be a great reading deck if you don't try to forcefit RWS meanings or that crazy LWB. Let the myths speak on their own. 😉
 

 

 

Yeah, from what I've seen so far it seems like he did his homework indeed. But IDK, it makes me feel a bit insecure. Next time I buy a deck I'll probably make sure it was made by someone who read, or understand tarot themselves. Thanks for your input!

[Guest]

If you change the image, you change the card’s meaning. Tarot—well, all cartomancy—is an optical dialect. Cards have no meaning outside their image. Despite attempts over the last 50-odd years to standardise, the Smith-Smith “meanings” correspond to Pamela’s design only.  
 

The Táin Bó Cúailnge might be useful with this deck. Research and the cards will respond.

[katrinka]

3 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

If you change the image, you change the card’s meaning. Tarot—well, all cartomancy—is an optical dialect. Cards have no meaning outside their image. Despite attempts over the last 50-odd years to standardise, the Smith-Smith “meanings” correspond to Pamela’s design only. 

Yes! Even playing card spots form into roads, squares, etc. And it's always best not to be rigid with interpretations. True, Cups relate to love, emotions, etc., but if the question is about finances, Cups are talking about finances.

Love the screen name, BTW. Someone needs to tell Tomtildrum that Timtoldrum is alive and well. 😁

Edited September 3, 2020 by katrinka