Wyrdkiss Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 greetings, I'm wondering how you view the Devil when appearing in a RWS style deck draw. In very simplified concepts, some view this solely as "doing something that feels good but is bad for you." Others, "free your mind" and spiritual autonomy. Let loose! you see, I'm making a reference sheet for a friend of condensed, summarized meanings for her introduction to tarot. What "leaning" would you, personally, put down if keeping the Devil to one or two phrases / concepts? Feed my cloven-foot curiosity tarot fam.
vulprix Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 39 minutes ago, Wyrdkiss said: greetings, I'm wondering how you view the Devil when appearing in a RWS style deck draw. In very simplified concepts, some view this solely as "doing something that feels good but is bad for you." Others, "free your mind" and spiritual autonomy. Let loose! you see, I'm making a reference sheet for a friend of condensed, summarized meanings for her introduction to tarot. What "leaning" would you, personally, put down if keeping the Devil to one or two phrases / concepts? Feed my cloven-foot curiosity tarot fam. Bondage, entrapment, heaviness. Overall it’s oppressive, but it’s important to honor—at the very least acknowledge—our carnal side. I feel really close to that restrictive Capricorn energy so The Devil archetype is one that I have really wrestled with. In a RWS context I think you have to lean more “negative,” but life is full of negative 🙂 It’s a part of things. I hope you get the feedback you’re looking for!🐐
tempress Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 the Devil is about the fears, attachments and beliefs that drive us, for good or for worse. -- the beliefs part is why you see similarities between the Devil and the Heirophant cards, as well as why Devil and the Lovers both reduce to 6 and deal with union, attachments, autonomy and beliefs/choices. -- for example, addictions are rooted in a fear/avoidance of pain. our beliefs about success can make us diligent and philanthropic or foolishly risk taking and/or exploitative.
TheLoracular Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 Self-sabotage, believing the lie, excessive passions, addiction (any kind not just drugs/alcohol), chicanery of some kind are things that often pop into my head with the RWS devil, but usually in the context that it boils down to choice and is escapable. I really see the two figures as the same as those on the Lover's card and not there as punishment from the divine, but there because they made bad and self-sabotaging decisions and can't take responsibility for what got them there or making the changes to themselves to leave. The devil himself in the background is the antithesis to both the magician (Willful creation) and the hierophant (messenger of a divine truth).
Guest Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 In contrast to the Lovers’ card, the Smith-Waite Devil card is supposed to evoke man after the Fall. He likens it the fatality of the material life, which is not bad summarisation of the card’s essence. Quite often, the Devil predicts that the seeker experiences an overwhelming desire or obsession that, if followed through, bring some form of tie or consequence that is hard to move past. Depending on the context that can be anything from cheating to tendering your resignation without another income. Another side is domineering behaviour or control issues. Sometimes that can be channeled constructively, you succeed over your rivals. But most of the time it’s bullying and coercion.
LogicalHue Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 I lean more in the addiction direction. Bad impulses, or staying in a bad situation.
katrinka Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, timtoldrum said: In contrast to the Lovers’ card, the Smith-Waite Devil card is supposed to evoke man after the Fall. He likens it the fatality of the material life, which is not bad summarisation of the card’s essence. Quite often, the Devil predicts that the seeker experiences an overwhelming desire or obsession that, if followed through, bring some form of tie or consequence that is hard to move past. Depending on the context that can be anything from cheating to tendering your resignation without another income. Another side is domineering behaviour or control issues. Sometimes that can be channeled constructively, you succeed over your rivals. But most of the time it’s bullying and coercion. All of that. Much is made of how the chains around the peoples' necks are loose, and they could easily lift them off and walk away. But it's doubtful they'd risk it with that huge devil right there. Another case of sugarcoating. It's generally NOT to easy kick a habit, or leave an abusive partner who may well stalk and murder. Crowley viewed the card as positive, too, but that was more a case of identifying with the Devil as free thought not bound by dogma. In any case it's a matter of freedom vs. being controlled. Something else I've seen this card allude to numerous times is a limited environment like a jail, hospital, or rehab. Edited November 6, 2020 by katrinka
Cobweb Posted November 8, 2020 Posted November 8, 2020 Unhealthy attachment is the first meaning for me. As an example, I pulled it this week in a personal reading about the US election - and, in context, it was clearly talking about my addiction to the news cycle and my habit of constant browser refreshing (or, perhaps on a less flippant and deeper level, my unhealthy addiction to my own anxiety and my inability to let the universe unfold as it should.) As a secondary connected meaning, I do see both sin and temptation - the overwhelming desire to do something that you know is bad for you and others, but it's just sooo tempting to do it anyway. Because of that, I do see an element of choice in the card - not least because it's so closely related visually to The Lovers. I don't really tend to see the Devil as something bad happening to you - but as something that you are doing/not-doing yourself, if you see what I mean. It's a question of agency. I'm thinking that the devil needs you to give into temptation before he has any power over you so I don't myself see the devil as a card signifying that someone has no choice over the situation. For me, a situation where someone has no power over the bad thing that is happening to them would be more of a Tower, Death or 10 of Swords thing. (Not that I'm disagreeing with Katrinka for a minute that addiction or an abusive relationship are awful and extremely difficult to get out of - to the point where you can't say that a person actually has a meaningful choice to escape - just that I'd need more/other cards to get to that meaning.) I always enjoy these threads and seeing how we all bring our own spin to the same card. 🙂
katrinka Posted November 8, 2020 Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Cobweb said: As an example, I pulled it this week in a personal reading about the US election - and, in context, it was clearly talking about my addiction to the news cycle and my habit of constant browser refreshing Ummm...virtually the whole country was doing that. 😁 20 minutes ago, Cobweb said: For me, a situation where someone has no power over the bad thing that is happening to them would be more of a Tower, Death or 10 of Swords thing. (Not that I'm disagreeing with Katrinka for a minute that addiction or an abusive relationship are awful and extremely difficult to get out of - to the point where you can't say that a person actually has a meaningful choice to escape - just that I'd need more/other cards to get to that meaning.) Tower, Death, and 10 of Swords are more final, by my lights. Boom - game over. The Devil, OTOH, can drag on for years. Edited November 8, 2020 by katrinka
Guest Posted November 8, 2020 Posted November 8, 2020 On 11/6/2020 at 10:09 PM, katrinka said: All of that. Much is made of how the chains around the peoples' necks are loose, and they could easily lift them off and walk away. But it's doubtful they'd risk it with that huge devil right there. Another case of sugarcoating. It's generally NOT to easy kick a habit, or leave an abusive partner who may well stalk and murder. Crowley viewed the card as positive, too, but that was more a case of identifying with the Devil as free thought not bound by dogma. In any case it's a matter of freedom vs. being controlled. Something else I've seen this card allude to numerous times is a limited environment like a jail, hospital, or rehab. Yes. I’ve never quite understood the emphasis that feature gets. It does tend to underplay the compulsive and dependent nature. If one cannot resist the initial compulsion, it does not seem right that the shackles (the consequence/the tie/resulting dependence) can be so easily discounted. As OP wanted two associations I did not mention weakness and illness but I see both in the Devil card, too. The Devil breaks down our defences. You end up being controlled, as you say. Crowley emphasised the unrestricted life and the link to Capricorn. You can see shades of Etteilla, to a degree. Personally, I don’t mix astrology with the cards but would never associate the Devil and Capricorn. That has often been an issue for me in the Harris-Crowley.
Cobweb Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 On 11/8/2020 at 2:21 PM, katrinka said: Tower, Death, and 10 of Swords are more final, by my lights. Boom - game over. The Devil, OTOH, can drag on for years. Yes, I agree - the Devil could definitely be a prolonged situation, whereas the others are more of a one-off event, it seems to me.
natty Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 Some interesting threads on the intrepetation of the devil card with similar themes emerging, absorbing the learning here. Im probably echoing some of these views but thought id share, Im still learning the cards myself but i see this card could have positive or negative aspects to it depending on where it is placed in a spread, the other cards around it. I echo views that negative aspects could be to do with the seekers thought processes, negative beliefs for example keeping them bound to an unhealthy situation be it themself or someome else, it may be more prolonged due to unhealthy attachments, co-dependancy or choosing a quick fix solution as it feels good in the short term but not in the long term or something which gives pleasure but not long term satisfaction. It may represent controlling, restrictive or manipulative choices again depending on the spread, other cards around it may be positive or negative just for example if your struggling with weight loss, this card comes up it could be due to old negative beliefs you hold , behaviour patterns say comfort eating and the need to address old beliefs and to control behaviours which are impulsive . On a positive it can represent breaking through these chains which weigh down a person, breaking old habits and behaviours not allowing them to define and control you or unbinding to that which no longer serves us.
Arcadia Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 For me The Devil is about entrapment that keeps you imprisoned, It can sometimes indicate an abusive relationship where someone is unable to escape, Also someone who is addicted to spending money and is very materialistic,
Silk Posted June 12, 2023 Posted June 12, 2023 It's been coming up as feelings towards me from a fellow that I sometimes play with online. I'm an online gamer so I tend to chat daily with a lot of people online and play with them in game sometimes. I'm yet undecided whether he feels potentially a bit obsessed with me, or just feels an unhealthy attachment or both. It could I suppose be anger/jealousy if he does in fact like me and sees me talking to/gaming with other guys. It's a little hard to tell which it is as of yet because he's one of these types that doesn't talk much and keeps his emotions hidden. I was in a 3 person party with him the day before I pulled these cards (me, another lady and him) and later that night the lady messaged me saying that she was highly empathic and felt that he was really into me. I asked her why she felt that and she said... "his aura... it was all about you." So I'm tending to lean towards the obsessive impulse/potentially unhealthy attachment... similar to an 8th house or Plutonic relationship in astrology. I've had those and the would definitely be described in part by The Devil card!
Miemza87 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 For me devil card is about addiction; mostly about holding on to, refusing to let go, based on obsessive feelings (driven by fear, or not being able or capable to confront emotions/experiences that are not dealt with). So questions I ask is what is this person avoiding to See, Why is he/she holding on to this (unhealthy) patern that will turn into a unhealthy cycle. Also, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
November Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 I didn't read the previous posts, but this is all what has meant for me The Devil over the years: - the strong influence of someone - in a job context it stood for an extremely hardworking person; as advice it happened then to mean to aim high and climb the corporate ladder - in a love context it stood for purely sexual relationships where you're physically obsessed by your partner, you can't stay without them; as sexual advice it tells you to let yourself go without fear or shame about your sexual fantasies - when it comes to finances it tells you to not feel ashamed if you like to spend money - as general advice to transgress and disobey and have some fun In more ''negative'' contexts it happened instead to mean: - someone's addiction, for example, to drugs, alcohol and other bad habits, but also to negative thought patterns, thus someone blocked in their own psycological problems and obsessions that needs help for breaking free - in a love context being blocked in a toxic relationship, where you know things aren't working, but you're unable to end things up
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