Millie Posted January 10, 2021 Posted January 10, 2021 Hi all Can anyone tell me the meaning of the 12 stars in the crown on the Empress please? Reading about it, I find different answers, from being connected to the cosmos or the spirit world to being in control of each month of the year but this feels like it is far older than that. If it were the cycle of the year, would it not be 13 moons? There are many images of the Virgin Mary with a 12 star crown or 12 stars around her head relating back to Revelations (A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.) The Visconte Sforza shows and Empress dressed in gold with a crown but no 12 stars or moon beneath her feet. I look forward to learning. 🙂
LogicalHue Posted January 10, 2021 Posted January 10, 2021 I haven't heard "months" but zodiac signs is a much older system.
fire cat pickles Posted January 10, 2021 Posted January 10, 2021 There were 11 signs before Julius Caesar: https://enews.coloradomtn.edu/2010/05/21/celestial-news-libra-misfit-of-the-zodiac/
katrinka Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Millie said: Can anyone tell me the meaning of the 12 stars in the crown on the Empress please? It's just Waite's Christian mysticism. 😉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_of_the_Apocalypse You don't see it in the TdM, the Thoth, the Etteilla, or any other important historical decks that I can call to mind at the moment. Wirth's Empress has a halo of stars, but there are only 9 and so refer to something else. The Hermetic Tarot does feature 12 stars at the top of the card. It's based on Mathers, who, as we know, hung out with Waite. So it's relevant to the Golden Dawn (or maybe just a faction of the Dawn) but it's not vital to Tarot otherwise. Not being a Christian mystic, I don't place undue importance on it. It's pretty, though. 😁 7 hours ago, Millie said: Reading about it, I find different answers, from being connected to the cosmos or the spirit world to being in control of each month of the year but this feels like it is far older than that. Those are peoples' impressions. And I really wish they would qualify such statements with "This is my take on it" or "This is my best guess" rather than presenting it as "This is what it IS." 7 hours ago, Millie said: If it were the cycle of the year, would it not be 13 moons? No. Waite didn't draw much on pagan influences at all, despite what those Etsy shops full of purple pentagrams would have us think. 😉 7 hours ago, Millie said: There are many images of the Virgin Mary with a 12 star crown or 12 stars around her head relating back to Revelations (A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.) The Visconte Sforza shows and Empress dressed in gold with a crown but no 12 stars or moon beneath her feet. I look forward to learning. 🙂 See? You knew already.
Millie Posted January 11, 2021 Author Posted January 11, 2021 14 hours ago, katrinka said: See? You knew already. Thanks all. Like many things, perhaps we will never know precisely what the 12 stars stand for, whether Christian or otherwise.
Guest Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 This may also represent the central star in each of the zodiacs, meaning the Empress is ruler of all sphere's of life. The entire cosmos.
katrinka Posted February 14, 2021 Posted February 14, 2021 But she's not. She answers to the Emperor. Her whole job is to produce heirs. Empresses and Queens who couldn't do this tended to end up with their heads in a basket. Herr marriage would have been an arranged marriage, for political reasons. She sadly lacked agency. A person whose function is to make babies can hardly be said to be "ruler of all sphere's of life. The entire cosmos."
Guest Posted February 14, 2021 Posted February 14, 2021 Waite associated the card with Venus. Venus was known as phosphorus/lūcifer and hesperus/vesper, the morning and evening star. She is the lesser benefic and the Empress, to Waite, signifies the earthly paradise and the lesser Eden. 21 hours ago, katrinka said: But she's not. She answers to the Emperor. This. That is where the intercession and communication comes for. She may preside over pleasure and comfort but that is it.
Annaporia Posted June 7, 2021 Posted June 7, 2021 I was just thinking about this today after running down the numerology of my particular birthday while reading through one of Mary Greer’s books, Tarot for Yourself. My numbers added up to 12 with The Hanged Man being my “personality card” (🧐) that she then instructed to further reduce by adding the 1 to the 2 to arrive at 3, The Empress, my soul card. I was pleasantly surprised to see the 12 opened up again in the stars over the Empress’ head. I have no particular insight to add, just an observation.
Guest Posted June 8, 2021 Posted June 8, 2021 I wondered about that too. If it really is just an odd little flourish of Christian mysticism, what are the chances of it being something super obvious like the number of apostles Jesus had or something like that? Christian mysticism seems so obscure. Also this had nothing to do whit anything, but The Empress's crown sort of reminds me of Hedy Lamarr's Ziegfeld costume with the starry headdress for some reason.
katrinka Posted June 8, 2021 Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) That's actually a good way of thinking of it, as far as reading cards goes. The stars adds interest, they're fancy, but they're rarely if ever relevant to the question, except in the sense that she's glorified. That's what the real Flo Ziegfeld actually called what he was doing: "Glorifying the American Girl." https://allthatsinteresting.com/ziegfeld-follies https://fromthebygone.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/ziegfeld-follies-girls-vintage-photos/ When you go past inflections like "American" and "Christianity", it's just a glorification of beautiful girls at the height of fertility. Some people want to BE them, others want to POSSESS them. Of course, the nuts-and-bolts reality could be quite different. I think parading around in a 40 lb. headdress and dodging passes from Old Man Flo would be highly unpleasant, in spite of any perks/privileges afforded by the job. But the stars are just that: a glorification, simply for the reason that she attracts a powerful mate and keeps the dynasty going. Edited June 8, 2021 by katrinka
Guest Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 2 hours ago, katrinka said: That's actually a good way of thinking of it, as far as reading cards goes. The stars adds interest, they're fancy, but they're rarely if ever relevant to the question, except in the sense that she's glorified. That's what the real Flo Ziegfeld actually called what he was doing: "Glorifying the American Girl." Favorite theory; Pamela Colman Smith drew the stars because she thought they were pretty. Also, another completely off topic thing: The Empress's stars remind me of a candle crown.
Talulah Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 Ive always thought of them as symbolizing the 12 months of the year! The Empress is a mother nature figure and strongly connected to the yearly cycle!
katrinka Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 22 hours ago, jadegreen said: Favorite theory; Pamela Colman Smith drew the stars because she thought they were pretty. A lot of the cards are glorified and crammed with a redundancy of symbols, often more than you would need to communicate an element or astrological information. I agree PCS probably just loved this stuff. She DID hang around the theater a lot. She lived with costume and spectacle on a frequent basis, and I'm sure that part of her reasoning was that a star crown would look really cool, lol. 22 hours ago, jadegreen said: Also, another completely off topic thing: The Empress's stars remind me of a candle crown. I think St. Lucy, unlike the Empress, was decidedly not in the mood for sex. 😁 But the stars do look vaguely reminiscent of that.
Recommended Posts