Are there any Muslims here?

[Emilija]

Hello:

 

I am wondering if there is anyone who is a Muslim, or was raised Muslim on this forum?

 

I read the tarot years ago, and I was quite adept at it. I later gave up the tarot for my religious beliefs. I now feel a pull to come back to tarot, but I feel a religious conflict in doing so. Has anyone else felt this experience?

 

Salaam

 

Emilija

[EmpyreanKnight]

Hi Emilija! I'm just curious: would there be any severe consequences for you if people found out that you read the Tarot? Like would you be shunned or ostracized, or would the people closest to you dissuade you from doing it?

 

I would like to know if your misgivings are more because of the social stigma that would arise if your practice goes out, or if it were a more internal thing - if it's something you feel might be morally wrong because Islamic teachings say so. Thanks!

[Emilija]

Hi Emilija! I'm just curious: would there be any severe consequences for you if people found out that you read the Tarot? Like would you be shunned or ostracized, or would the people closest to you dissuade you from doing it?

 

I would like to know if your misgivings are more because of the social stigma that would arise if your practice goes out, or if it were a more internal thing - if it's something you feel might be morally wrong because Islamic teachings say so. Thanks!

 

Well the first is definitely true: other Muslims would definitely take notice and try to talk to me about it. But what I'm experiencing is more of the latter.

 

Islamic teachings generally condemn divination as a form of blasphemy against God. It is also considered a form of fraud, because there were "fortune tellers" who would access their information from the Jinn and swindle people.

 

Now, I have no intention of disrespecting God, nor of talking to bad spirits. I'm not a con artist and I have no plans to cheat people. For me, tarot would be a way to connect with God and to self-improve.

 

But yes, there's a lot of internal guilt going on.

[DownUnderNZer]

 

 

I know here in Australia there are those that share your faith or religion that read the bottoms of Coffee cups. Coffee readings.

 

Not sure if they are conflicted in any way, but some do them for predictive readings as a girl that did my hair some years ago that was Muslim told me her mother and aunt did them in her community.

 

Would that not be the same as Tarot?

 

 

[Emilija]

 

 

I know here in Australia there are those that share your faith or religion that read the bottoms of Coffee cups. Coffee readings.

 

Not sure if they are conflicted in any way, but some do them for predictive readings as a girl that did my hair some years ago that was Muslim told me her mother and aunt did them in her community.

 

Would that not be the same as Tarot?

 

I guess it depends on someone's intentions. As long as someone's not communicating with Jinn or trying to tell the future. We are taught that knowing the future belongs to God alone. On the other hand, I just wanted to ask Spirit if there's anything He wanted me to know; sort of like a self-improvement thing. I also have had clairvoyant dreams in the past, and I feel like those were glimpses or gifts given by Spirit. I figure God can choose whether or not to give me insight; just like He chose when or not to give me the dreams.

 

I don't think that they feel conflicted about it because coffee readings are mostly a cultural practice, rather than a religious one. Sometimes Muslims do things that aren't sanctioned by the religion. I guess I don't think it's the same as tarot, but you make a good point.

[DownUnderNZer]

 

I do know it was "predictive" as she told her oldest daughter, not my hairdresser at the time who was the youngest, that she saw her "future husband" coming into her life and he did within 7 months of that reading. Other things too, but that was the one detail that stood out the most when I was being told.

 

Not sure if it was seen as predictive though as maybe it may not have been - just something seen in the coffee cup.

 

 

 

 

I know here in Australia there are those that share your faith or religion that read the bottoms of Coffee cups. Coffee readings.

 

Not sure if they are conflicted in any way, but some do them for predictive readings as a girl that did my hair some years ago that was Muslim told me her mother and aunt did them in her community.

 

Would that not be the same as Tarot?

 

I guess it depends on someone's intentions. As long as someone's not communicating with Jinn or trying to tell the future. We are taught that knowing the future belongs to God alone. On the other hand, I just wanted to ask Spirit if there's anything He wanted me to know; sort of like a self-improvement thing. I also have had clairvoyant dreams in the past, and I feel like those were glimpses or gifts given by Spirit. I figure God can choose whether or not to give me insight; just like He chose when or not to give me the dreams.

 

I don't think that they feel conflicted about it because coffee readings are mostly a cultural practice, rather than a religious one. Sometimes Muslims do things that aren't sanctioned by the religion. I guess I don't think it's the same as tarot, but you make a good point.

[Esk]

The first professional reader I saw was muslim. I think she was medium too. But we didn't discuss her religion so I can't tell you how she integrates tarot with her religion.

However onne thing I noticed is that she didn't fix her prices but let the client decide what they want to pay. Maybe she wanted this to be more like a donation than a real business.

[Emilija]

The first professional reader I saw was muslim. I think she was medium too. But we didn't discuss her religion so I can't tell you how she integrates tarot with her religion.

However onne thing I noticed is that she didn't fix her prices but let the client decide what they want to pay. Maybe she wanted this to be more like a donation than a real business.

 

Do you still know of this person's whereabouts? How did you know she was a Muslim?

[Esk]

She was an acquaintance of my cousin (they're not in contact anymore), and I only met her once so I didn't really know her myself.

But I know she comes from north Africa (There's an important north african immigration where I live), that's why I supposed she's muslim as its the most important religion there. I think i also saw a hand of Fatima at her place. But it's true I can't be 100% sure because we never discussed her believes.

 

[Emilija]

Can I ask a personal question to all of you? I hope I don't offend anyone!

 

When you are reading, do you feel like you are being "fed" information by different entities or spirits? Do you consult with other beings? Who do you call upon when you are making your questions during a reading?

 

I'm asking because a hadith says that any fortune teller is in cahoots with the jinn for information. I'm trying to be open-minded and understand that maybe not a tarot readers are like that.

 

What does Christianity say about divination?

[Saturn Celeste]

Can I ask a personal question to all of you? I hope I don't offend anyone!

 

When you are reading, do you feel like you are being "fed" information by different entities or spirits? Do you consult with other beings? Who do you call upon when you are making your questions during a reading?

 

I'm asking because a hadith says that any fortune teller is in cahoots with the jinn for information. I'm trying to be open-minded and understand that maybe not a tarot readers are like that.

I feel my ancestors are with me and are in tune with me in my home but they are not 'feeding' me anything.  They are around me for support.  I also don't consider reading the tarot fortune telling that much.  I read the cards simply for the messages they have for the querent.  When I am reading, I am just the messenger.  That's why sometimes I have to deliver bad news or have readings that will give them insights to their problems but nothing to do with a fortune.  I usually always speak in possibilities, not an actual fortune.  I don't want to set up expectations for the querents, I just want to tell them what the cards say in front of me.  The more I can remove myself and my feelings/opinions from the reading the better.

 

You are in a difficult position, Emilija.  You are a part of an important religion to you and yet you feel drawn to the tarot.  If you look at the tarot more of a means to give people more insights into themselves and not about telling them what might be ahead for them, you might feel a little differently about being influenced by a jinn or other negative influences.  Look at the cards more for the energy they present for your querent instead of what their ulterior motive might be.  Cards are just cards, they are a tool that we use to help ourselves and others.  Trust in yourself and trust in your cards.  Welcome to TT&M!  ;D

[Saturn Celeste]

I just read your edit about Christianity.  I'm not one for the bible.  I study Hinduism more than I do the bible but there are prophets throughout the bible.  The few passages I've come across about fortune tellers is they should not take money for what they do.  But prophets are all over the bible.

[EmpyreanKnight]

AFAIK, the Catholic Church has a strict edict against fortune-telling and divination. Prophets are exempted tho since their visions are given by God.

 

I remember the story about King Saul asking the Witch of Endor to summon the spirit of Samuel since he was worried about the looming Philistine army. The spirit told him that he would perish in a battle that he will lose, and eventually he did tho it was through suicide. It was said that the wraith in question was really a demon in disguise, since divinatory wisdom that does not come directly from God can only come from another, more malevolent source.

 

So yeah, the Church heavily dissuades its flock from consulting readers, much less becoming one. Practically speaking tho: I come from a very Catholic country. We still go to masses, the Church still wields a huge (tho waning) influence, and yet the Tarot is not exactly verboten. Some even get interested in a positive way once they found out that you read. A certain reputation might cling to you tho, and since I work in a corporate tech environment, my colleagues don't know about this. My family and a few friends do, and tho they're good, God-fearing folks, they're still supportive.

[EmpyreanKnight]

Btw, I pray to my guides and like SaturnCeleste, my ancestors to help make my readings more accurate, to aid me in turning the pages of the Book of Life so that I may have a glimpse of the most possible futures. I don't feel that there is a sinister source for all of this, since the cards have helped me (and other people too) so much and in so many ways.

[Emilija]

AFAIK, the Catholic Church has a strict edict against fortune-telling and divination. Prophets are exempted tho since their visions are given by God.

 

I remember the story about King Saul asking the Witch of Endor to summon the spirit of Samuel since he was worried about the looming Philistine army. The spirit told him that he would perish in a battle that he will lose, and eventually he did tho it was through suicide. It was said that the wraith in question was really a demon in disguise, since divinatory wisdom that does not come directly from God can only come from another, more malevolent source.

 

So yeah, the Church heavily dissuades its flock from consulting readers, much less becoming one. Practically speaking tho: I come from a very Catholic country. We still go to masses, the Church still wields a huge (tho waning) influence, and yet the Tarot is not exactly verboten. Some even get interested in a positive way once they found out that you read. A certain reputation might cling to you tho, and since I work in a corporate tech environment, my colleagues don't know about this. My family and a few friends do, and tho they're good, God-fearing folks, they're still supportive.

 

Your explanation about the wraith is similar to the Islamic point of view. Prophets receive information via God, but other sources of information come from the Jinn or devils. It is said that God knows all that is in existence. He knows the past and knows what will happen for everyone, so to speak. Whenever God decrees something, the angels start to formulate that plan to bring that about. When the angels are moving around and discussing God's plans, it is said that the Jinn sneak up to the base of the heavens and listen in to the angels talking. They then feed this information to fortune-tellers, though with malevolence.

 

I'm not sure I understand, though. Even though the Vatican forbids reading, people do it anyways in the Philippines?

 

I definitely don't want a bad reputation anywhere, so the people who know that I have an interest in tarot are on this forum. I don't tell my friends or colleagues. Most Muslims would be quite uneasy about it, and I don't want to be labeled as a unbeliever. I plan on remaining "in the closet" with tarot.

 

[Emilija]

Btw, I pray to my guides and like SaturnCeleste, my ancestors to help make my readings more accurate, to aid me in turning the pages of the Book of Life so that I may have a glimpse of the most possible futures. I don't feel that there is a sinister source for all of this, since the cards have helped me (and other people too) so much and in so many ways.

 

This is a little off topic, but do you pray to saints? I know that Catholics sometimes supplicate to saints. I know a little about it because I'm Lithuanian (most Lithuanians are Catholic), and I am on the board with a community group that meets in a Catholic church.

[Emilija]

 

I feel my ancestors are with me and are in tune with me in my home but they are not 'feeding' me anything.  They are around me for support.  I also don't consider reading the tarot fortune telling that much.  I read the cards simply for the messages they have for the querent.  When I am reading, I am just the messenger.  That's why sometimes I have to deliver bad news or have readings that will give them insights to their problems but nothing to do with a fortune.  I usually always speak in possibilities, not an actual fortune.  I don't want to set up expectations for the querents, I just want to tell them what the cards say in front of me.  The more I can remove myself and my feelings/opinions from the reading the better.

 

You are in a difficult position, Emilija.  You are a part of an important religion to you and yet you feel drawn to the tarot.  If you look at the tarot more of a means to give people more insights into themselves and not about telling them what might be ahead for them, you might feel a little differently about being influenced by a jinn or other negative influences.  Look at the cards more for the energy they present for your querent instead of what their ulterior motive might be.  Cards are just cards, they are a tool that we use to help ourselves and others.  Trust in yourself and trust in your cards.  Welcome to TT&M!  ;D

 

Do you think that your ancestors help you with your readings?

 

I don't look at the tarot as superstitious or demonic, but I receive messages from my faith that they are. That's the conflict for me. I've justified it to myself by saying that I'll only direct my questions to the One God, and not to spirits or anything else. If He wants to give me insight, He will. That way I am not disrespecting His sovereignty.  I have to constantly walk that fine line.

 

I've come to feel slightly better about it in the last day. I don't want to feel ashamed to develop these gifts. I've even bought my "first" deck.

[EmpyreanKnight]

I'm not sure I understand, though. Even though the Vatican forbids reading, people do it anyways in the Philippines?

 

Yup. Sometimes we strictly obey the Vatican's precepts, but other times we just shrug it off. AFAIK only the Vatican and the Philippines have absolutely no divorce laws. The family is of absolute importance here so I guess that's understandable. The Church has posed significant challenges to our reproductive health initiatives, tho its influence there is slowly waning. Church attendance is still going strong, and if you're a priest or nun, people automatically accord you some respect.

 

On the other hand, the Vatican forbids giving and receiving Tarot readings tho I think the stigma for the former is greater. It isn't something that would result in as harsh a penalty as excommunication, so most people won't bat an eyelash. Regarding divination tho: Tarot and other cartomantic systems are more or less accepted here. Communing with the dead to divine the future is very much frowned upon, tho it still has its adherents.

[EmpyreanKnight]

This is a little off topic, but do you pray to saints? I know that Catholics sometimes supplicate to saints. I know a little about it because I'm Lithuanian (most Lithuanians are Catholic), and I am on the board with a community group that meets in a Catholic church.

 

A lot of people here pray to different saints, and the more fervent ones are even called devotees. I rarely call out to saints tho.

 

When I read, I usually ask help from my guides and, if the reading is personally important or family-related, my ancestors or loved ones who have passed away. In my normal everyday prayers, it's mostly to the Trinity, to God Himself, or the Blessed Virgin Mary. When I seek protection tho, I've proven again and again how powerful Jesus's name is. I invoke my guardian angel too especially before I go to sleep and she always keeps me safe.

 

Btw, we have a Muslim minority here too! I've been friends with some of them since college, and tho we've never discussed religion, they're very cool and relaxed about stuff. :)

[DownUnderNZer]

 

I think it is fair to ask although each person will take it differently.

 

As a reader I think it is intuition and what the cards mean when it comes to cards, but when it comes to Mediumship (not my personal choice) it is what I am shown whether in person, dreams, or visions.

 

I am not religious, but do believe there is a creator or God.

 

I have never charged money and do not sugar coat  anything nor am I affiliated with the Devil and would hope never to be.

 

When I read it comes from a place that is quite clear and the intent is to be truthful. It is not about harming or causing anyone to want to do something questionable either.

 

There is a responsibility with it.

 

Can I ask a personal question to all of you? I hope I don't offend anyone!

 

When you are reading, do you feel like you are being "fed" information by different entities or spirits? Do you consult with other beings? Who do you call upon when you are making your questions during a reading?

 

I'm asking because a hadith says that any fortune teller is in cahoots with the jinn for information. I'm trying to be open-minded and understand that maybe not a tarot readers are like that.

 

What does Christianity say about divination?

[Emilija]

Thank you for your response.

[Emilija]

I'm not sure I understand, though. Even though the Vatican forbids reading, people do it anyways in the Philippines?

 

Yup. Sometimes we strictly obey the Vatican's precepts, but other times we just shrug it off. AFAIK only the Vatican and the Philippines have absolutely no divorce laws. The family is of absolute importance here so I guess that's understandable. The Church has posed significant challenges to our reproductive health initiatives, tho its influence there is slowly waning. Church attendance is still going strong, and if you're a priest or nun, people automatically accord you some respect.

 

On the other hand, the Vatican forbids giving and receiving Tarot readings tho I think the stigma for the former is greater. It isn't something that would result in as harsh a penalty as excommunication, so most people won't bat an eyelash. Regarding divination tho: Tarot and other cartomantic systems are more or less accepted here. Communing with the dead to divine the future is very much frowned upon, tho it still has its adherents.

 

It's interesting that the culture has sort of come up with a double-indemnity clause: on one hand Catholic, but still practicing other things as well.

 

Do you think that the tarot has more pagan symbolism, or more Judeo-Christian symbolism? Are there any books you would recommend? It just seems like I'm always finding stuff that is associated with New Age beliefs. No offense to anyone who identifies with that, it just that I'm Abrahamic.

[Emilija]

 

 

As a reader I think it is intuition and what the cards mean when it comes to cards, but when it comes to Mediumship (not my personal choice) it is what I am shown whether in person, dreams, or visions.

 

 

Do you have dreams that reflect on your readings?

[DownUnderNZer]

Not sure what you mean by "reflect".

 

Last year, as an example, I dreamt in regards to one person over a number of nights and on top of it 3 of her family members were constantly present in my lounge and with me in all kinds of ways.

 

When I relayed what was in the dreams she told me how it connected to her life. One dream was about these home made games, I had never seen before, being played by a family.

 

Her grand father made a number of original games even some made of wood if I am remembering right. Fantastic works as well. And as a child she remembered playing them as a family activity.

 

We can only give what we are shown and nothing more. No matter what tool. Those dreams were not a reflection of the readings because they did not come after but before each time. Or during as that lasted for about 3 to 5 days. Not face to face, but online.

 

And it is not something I like doing, but sometimes I have no choice. Maybe 5% of the time. A message needs to be passed on or that famy member needs reassurance anor closure. Just to know everything is going to be alright and that their loved ones that are no longer here are fine as well.

 

 

 

As a reader I think it is intuition and what the cards mean when it comes to cards, but when it comes to Mediumship (not my personal choice) it is what I am shown whether in person, dreams, or visions.

 

 

Do you have dreams that reflect on your readings?

[EmpyreanKnight]

Do you think that the tarot has more pagan symbolism, or more Judeo-Christian symbolism? Are there any books you would recommend? It just seems like I'm always finding stuff that is associated with New Age beliefs. No offense to anyone who identifies with that, it just that I'm Abrahamic.

 

It would depend on the deck, but I think that in general, Tarot decks have more pagan/occult than Judaeo-Christian images. Regarding the symbols in a deck, I mostly read books that feature that specific deck in mind. There are companion books often included in deck-and-book sets or kits, but very popular decks may have a lot of books devoted to them. In general tho, I really like Rachel Pollack's Tarot Wisdom tho she does go beyond symbolism in her analyses of each card.

 

Btw I just remembered that the Islamic world in the middle ages had a hand in the genesis of the Tarot, if you subscribe to the view that it came from playing cards. It seems that Mameluke Egypt was the source of the initial playing cards that trickled through Europe through Italy, Spain, and Portugal, so yeah. :)