Lenormand Cards: 6 - Clouds

[joy]

4 minutes ago, Misterei said:

LOL the wonderful world of LN inconsistencies🤣 If we go ONLY by the PL instructions, if the Clouds fall far from the Person card ... it's actually good news. There's nothing about them clouding other cards in that original text:

Clouds if their clear side is turned towards the Person, are a lucky sign; with their dark side turned to the Person, something disagreeable will soon happen.

 

Yet, it has become accepted in MOD style that Clouds will cloud other cards: Clover, Stars, Tower, Crossroads, Letter, and Lilly

 

This makes it confusing when people talk about being pure/proper with Lenormand. There are conflicting rules!

 

Not sure I can follow you here. In the PL it just talks about the clouds being close to the Person. It does not say if it is next to the Fish with its dark side that your finances will still be fine.

[Misterei]

10 minutes ago, joy said:

Not sure I can follow you here. In the PL it just talks about the clouds being close to the Person. It does not say if it is next to the Fish with its dark side that your finances will still be fine.

Going by PL text, the Fish give good fortune close to the Person but bad fortune far from the Person.

The Fishes if near the Person point to the acquisition of large fortune by marine enterprises and to a series of successful undertakings; if distant they indicate the failure of any speculation, no matter how well projected or planned

 

No mention of what happens if Clouds fall next to Fish.

 

We might surmise that if Clouds fall near the Person with their dark side, AND Fish fall distant from the Person ... that's bad for finances. But going purely by PL text ... both conditions would have to be met [i.e. Clouds near and Fish far].

 

I am too inexperienced to draw solid conclusions. I'm at the stage of observing and experimenting.

Edited April 30, 2024 by Misterei

[Mellaenn]

I am struggling with Lenormand (still, after 10 years of trying to figure it out) and recently got back into it.  I've taken many classes and participated in lots of reading groups; I have a number of books about it, going back to "The Secrets of the Lenormand Oracle" to Rana George's book to a recent book by Erika Robinson.  It seems that there are different schools of thought about the Clouds; e.g. dark side vs light side, etc.  

 

I was in a group of readers practicing reading the Lenormand the other day and this exact topic came up.  For me, I am thinking I simply need to choose a system that I resonate with and stick with it.  Clouds are clouds and are usually not good news, unless you live in the desert and they're bringing rain.  What's hard for me is abstaining from Tarot-like ways of interpreting them.  

[Misterei]

15 minutes ago, Mellaenn said:

I was in a group of readers practicing reading the Lenormand the other day and this exact topic came up. 

LOL good to know I'm not the only one!

 

<<  What's hard for me is abstaining from Tarot-like ways of interpreting them.  >>

 

What would be a tarot-like way of interpreting Clouds? Or did you mean LN in general and I misundersood?

[Rose Lalonde]

1 hour ago, Misterei said:

There's nothing about them clouding other cards in that original text:

There is though. It's in the other cards' descriptions. "No. 2.-A CLOVER LEAF Is also a harbinger of good news; but if surrounded by Clouds it indicates great pain." "No. 19.-The TOWER gives us hope of a happy old age; but if surrounded by Clouds, it forbodes sickness"  Same for the Dog, the Stars, the Roads, the Letter. It's just such a wide reaching effect.

 

2 hours ago, Misterei said:

If we go ONLY by the PL instructions, if the Clouds fall far from the Person card ... it's actually good news.

That's actually a really helpful reminder for me and useful for my month ahead GTs.

[Misterei]

21 minutes ago, Rose Lalonde said:

There is though. It's in the other cards' descriptions. "No. 2.-A CLOVER LEAF Is also a harbinger of good news; but if surrounded by Clouds it indicates great pain." "No. 19.-The TOWER gives us hope of a happy old age; but if surrounded by Clouds, it forbodes sickness"  Same for the Dog, the Stars, the Roads, the Letter. It's just such a wide reaching effect.

 

That's actually a really helpful reminder for me and useful for my month ahead GTs.

EEK! Thanks @Rose Lalonde. I added this to my notes. I'm working off notes b/c it gets to be too many books and blogs. But my notes are incomplete.

[Mellaenn]

42 minutes ago, Misterei said:

LOL good to know I'm not the only one!

 

<<  What's hard for me is abstaining from Tarot-like ways of interpreting them.  >>

 

What would be a tarot-like way of interpreting Clouds? Or did you mean LN in general and I misundersood?

Yes, that's a good point. I was actually just referring to using tarot reading skills  - or actually, trying not to - when reading any Lenormand card, but as for Clouds specifically, my tarot-reading mind could go off on some kind of tangent like "clouds are temporary, so this won't last forever".  In Lenormand it seems like a cloud is a cloud is a cloud and it means confusion or bad news or even bad weather.  Even if you think "The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow!", it's irrelevant to the reading.

[Misterei]

To Clarify:

@Rose Lalonde has kindly made a more accurate summary of Clouds in the PL text;

Clouds cast a malefic on: Clover, Stars, Dog, Tower, Crossroads, Letter, and Lilly

This *IS* in the original text. My apologies for any confustion.

[akiva]

3 hours ago, Misterei said:

Lenormand SWAT team. Yikes! 😱

In Lenormand Jail they lock you in a cell with the Clouds, the Coffin, and the Cross, while Fox and Snake look on and laugh at your torment and the Birds yell, "Shame Shame!". They feed you bread and water but the Mice will try to nibble it unless you drive them off.

And, yes, this discussion has led me to some

LOL sounds like a hell hole 🤣

 

3 hours ago, Misterei said:

And, yes, this discussion has led me to some Conclusions I'll note in my journal. In the foreseeable future I intend to go with my gut about left=past and apply that to Clouds; but also give some attention to the other methods since I am still in the experimental stage.

This sounds like a good plan, and will help cut through some of the confusion!

 

3 hours ago, Misterei said:

LOL 45 years vs. 5 years [on and off]. Until now, I never studied LN deeply. I used it only as an add-on for my Tarot readings in a surface way. Whereas I've always studied Tarot deeply.

See, it's going to take time to get the same proficiency. But that's not a bad thing, the learning journey is supposed to be fun 😊

[Rose Lalonde]

Thanks, @Misterei. And I forgot clouded Lilly. 

 

Sometimes I think the way the PL sheet was written was meant for someone who would only have their fortune told with it once or twice in their life.  They talk about Madame Lenormand reading the fates of famous people (presumably just the once), and we get things like foretelling a rich and happy marriage, a happy old age, death.  Cards like the Clouds and the Coffin are pretty much a given over the course of a lifetime, so it seems less dramatic once than having it pop up in something like a monthly GT. It goes back to what you said @Misterei about how to read the severity of the Clouds in the kinds of readings we do.  I guess it's less of an issue for smaller spreads, in which these cards may not show up.

Edited April 30, 2024 by Rose Lalonde

[akiva]

29 minutes ago, Rose Lalonde said:

Sometimes I think the way the PL sheet was written was meant for someone who would only have their fortune told with it once or twice in their life.  They talk about Madame Lenormand reading the fates of famous people (presumably just the once), and we get things like foretelling a rich and happy marriage, a happy old age, death.  Cards like the Clouds and the Coffin are pretty much a given over the course of a lifetime, so it seems less dramatic once than having it pop up in something like a monthly GT.

Lenormand GT's were also incredibly general back in the day too. Detailed readings seem to be more modern.

The PL sheets GT example is incredibly general having just reread it. Lots of vague statements about vanquished troubles and successful enterprises. 🤣 

 

I think that's why Clouds means "something disagreeable will soon happen", or Cross as "misfortune", it's not meant to be so precise as to know exactly what will happen. More a warning that something will. It might hint it's to do with friends or money depending on whats near or far, but it doesn't seem to go much deeper than that 🤔