playing inserts study inspired by Caitlin Matthews and Andy Boroveshengra books

[HOLMES]

Following with german playing inserts..(as in andy b book) i realized it falls with my ojibwe medicine wheel. 

I will also be following caitlin matthews 4 destinies where it pertains to the inserts.

So here is a visual  i know the wheel is square.. but best i could do.

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by HOLMES

[katrinka]

Wait, what? 

OK, I'm at a disadvantage here as I wasn't raised in the culture and I can only go off of things I've read over the years. But isn't North considered cleansing? Like the north wind. There's nothing cleansing about Clubs - Mice especially tend to be very messy! And West, that's where the sun sets, things are ending - but Spades/Leaves are growth. And so forth. 

It's a different system, a different way of looking at things. I think it's a mistake to forcefit them.

As mentioned, I can't say a lot about the four (or six!) directions - but Lenormand is best taken on its own terms, without trying to correspond it to other systems. 

[gregory]

Yes.  It really doesn't to me, either. I think it's a shame the way so many people seem to be determined to muddy existing systems by mixing them all up together. It's like having loads of different colours of paint and stirring them up to make brown. You lose all the distinguishing features of each. We have such a variety of divination methods available to us; they don't all need to be linked up everywhere.

Edited April 6, 2021 by gregory

[katrinka]

And aren't the directions considered holy in Native cosmology? They're addressed in prayer. 

Equating them to card suits seems wrong.

[Guest]

The traditional suits were associated with seasons: 

 

• Hearts were Spring 
• Bells were Summer
• Leaves were Autumn 
• Acorns were Winter 

You can still see this on the Hungarian deuces. 
 

I do associate East with Spring, South with Summer, West with Autumn and North with Winter.  I also associate east, south, west and north  with fire, earth, water and air, respectively.  I’ve never done this with the Petit Lenormand, as Acorns would be earth, but are winter.  

[HOLMES]

First regarding ojibwe, 

There are many differnt tribes for the most part we are isolated from each unless one is an explorer. You might say each is a little munipality. 

It is true in dialect in the ojibwe language was well.

 

And so it is with the "teachings". If you do a search for medicine wheels you will see many differnt ones. Some simpler then others. The one i posted has much of the same information as the seasons, time. But i originally had 2 more and took them out for ease of the post. 

If you also look for the 7 teachings they are out there as well from other tribes over the years for they want The information shared. 

Also the ojibwe aren't the only ones with medicine wheel. 

I never traveled but i heard far south . They enter pow wows from the west,  and dance counter click wise. 

While here we enter from the east and go clock wise.

 

So i choose the one wheel that also made sense to me. So it has personal meaning for me for me with no offense meant to my people.

 

There will always be traditionalists vs sharers in the tradition.  I had both types of teachers those who stay only with what are taught and those who look everywhere

 

The sad truth is. These aides ( medicine wheel, 7 teachings etc) are also meant for out people as we lost so much due to the residential schools and assimilation that at least here there is christian, traditionalists, and those who don't learn. 

 

For me talking about directions is like talking of the bear, fox, snake or tree. 

It is ok. One can also pray to these and do. It be called snake medicine. Bearedicine. And so forth. 

 

So that is why i used the wheel as vidual tool, and the cards like that. 

 

[HOLMES]

I am using the 4 paths of the lenormand universe by caitlin matthews as inspiration for this journey. So i am going to do this for the four suit,to help me of course but others if it helps to journey through the nine cards from 6 to a.

I spent last making notes from the books. But not going to post them as one should buy the books

 

This first one deals with the path of destiny which is the heart suit inserts. 

In my study last night i fix my own meaning of the tree

I think why is the heart suit on the heart but not in the ring. I thought about it without looking up the ring 

The answer i thought about was back then  many rings were marriage of convenience, of power.. it is a good match. Any how see where comes up for that when i get there. I also thought about the masculinity of the heart suit.

To me for now i still reduce hearts to its basic meaning of friendship, instead of gifts.thought when you express your love to another it is a gift. 

 

In the messenger i thought about the idea of affection.. good news is sure about romance but also other issues. So asi thought last night.. 

I thought of tragedy where if the message doesn't get there in time to perhaps fix up miscommunication that the lord object of affection may toss herself off the cliffs.

So i guess that would be only tragedic if the coffin scythe was there as extreme

 

The journey of destiny of love

 

In the stars i look to friendship from the popular people and guidance from fortune telling.

I strive to keep good health by walking in nature. Perhaps my ancestors had trees on our land that was good (tree of herb, food medicine) i realize a true gift of the heart takes time to raise a tree. 

From there i look yonder moon and make a personal promise to work hard at the career. To become known for my work will be great acclaim. Gee i sure hope to be promoted in a month. 

From there i seek to give good news to friends or perhaps to save someone. The journey is fun but the goal of showing my good heart is important to me 

From here i seek a companion to be my best friend.. i always wanted a dog so i can be loyal and have that loyalty return!  It could be a bestest friend or servant.

From here i decide i am going be the jack of hearts and show my desire that i really love her in that way. If she doesn't return my love i will strive to be the bestest friend

I put myself into thoughts of how al lady of hearts would act. It occurs to me she would want to move to the best places.deal with birth and taking care of the funerals if out child dies.

So she would be master of decorating the house. 

She would expect me to be master of the house.. it is from here i could make long term business deals with dearest friends.

I am the gentleman still i am very picture of masculinity being very viral,able, and able to defend myself. 

I seek to build with my hearts desire to keep my family line going

I have come far but got ling ways to go as it is just the beginning. 

I have just met  my partner,got a house and dog. Maybe built it with the beautiful tree bring me peace

 

[HOLMES]

I was lying here trying to put a phrase of the "querent thoughts desires" in the heart card as it pertains to the jack of hearts

It seemed quite simple. But was thinking what if the client is not thinking of love. 

Then the old Bible phrase "where a man heart is there is his treasure"

Where your treasure is, there will be your heart" depending on the translation.

Then i thought of scrooge in Dickens, at the beginning he loved his emily/isabel.. but as he got more treasure.. his heart begin to be there more then his love for the woman. 

It isn't stipulated but she hung on for as long as she could.. 

But no doubt he started to work long hours. Missing dates, so finally she to put her foot down for her self worth or she would never of a family in the stork.. 

And so he was alone in his home. 

All because his treasure overpowered his other desire.

 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I was lying here trying to put a phrase of the "querent thoughts desires" in the heart card as it pertains to the jack of hearts

It seemed quite simple. But was thinking what if the client is not thinking of love. 

Then the old Bible phrase "where a man heart is there is his treasure"

Where your treasure is, there will be your heart" depending on the translation.

Then i thought of scrooge in Dickens, at the beginning he loved his emily/isabel.. but as he got more treasure.. his heart begin to be there more then his love for the woman. 

It isn't stipulated but she hung on for as long as she could.. 

But no doubt he started to work long hours. Missing dates, so finally she to put her foot down for her self worth or she would never of a family in the stork.. 

And so he was alone in his home. 

All because his treasure overpowered his other desire.

 

 

 

The card signifies the thoughts or the desires of the querent. The cards it is with tell you what the querent is thinking or desires. It need not be love.

 

Traditionally, knaves were read as the thoughts of the king or queen of their suit. If you were reading with the classical piquet deck, for a brown-haired woman, the queen of clubs would be her significator and the knave of clubs her thoughts. You would look at the knave and then count from it to see her thoughts or desires. 

[HOLMES]

3 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

The card signifies the thoughts or the desires of the querent. The cards it is with tell you what the querent is thinking or desires. It need not be love.

 

Traditionally, knaves were read as the thoughts of the king or queen of their suit. If you were reading with the classical piquet deck, for a brown-haired woman, the queen of clubs would be her significator and the knave of clubs her thoughts. You would look at the knave and then count from it to see her thoughts or desires. 

Thanks again andy b. 

Sometimes it takes a while to get through my denseness.

Perhaps some of it comes from my tarot background.  Also i think in donna leigh you tube video on how she helped change bluebird.

 

In it the knaves are youths, so  that was another thing influencing me as blue bird second edition. 

So i will keep in mind all knaves traditionally were thoughts of the king or queen of their suit.

For when i move on to the diamonds., and so on

 

[Guest]

Hello Holmes 

 

The Bluebird Lenormand is a catalogue of errors, from the verses to the anachronism of its iconography.  It is not a deck one would ever use or recommend. I cannot comment on the changes for later printing, however.

 

Traditionally, knaves could be read as a youth and were, therefore, sometimes used as a significator. Different cartomantes held different opinions on who knaves were but also gender. For example, some read them as male and would read the eights of hearts and clubs as female youths instead.

 

But it best to keep to thoughts with the PL. If you look at the original instructions, you will see that the Child card kept its playing card meanings. 

 

 

 

 

[HOLMES]

In studying the german bells i thought of christmas. And tried to put into summer context.

https://images.app.goo.gl/3TRsiagAvmQcFWeh9

 

Then i thought of summer bells up here . And i thought of the pow wow bells the pow wow dancers use around their ankles to dance

 

https://www.crazycrow.com/bells

https://images.app.goo.gl/uNckBLMeKwPxCbnD6

 

So before i get to the bells, i figure i would share that. 

Course pow wows can be done anytime.. the pow wow trail is primary done in the spring to fall  though

Ours is done in the long weekend in august.

 

[Guest]

Hello @HOLMES

 

Schellen was associated with summer because it was common for entertainments to be held with jugglers wearing bells and travelling fairs.  I've written about this several time.  In addition, Midsummer marked St. John's Eve, which was widely celebrated.  Girls would light the fire and jump over it as bells rang out.  

 

Some of the earlier designs for the deuce showed a young man resting on a haystack.  

[katrinka]

Pow wow bells are a good mnemonic - if it helps you remember, definitely keep it in mind. 
 

2 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

Schellen was associated with summer because it was common for entertainments to be held with jugglers wearing bells and travelling fairs.  I've written about this several time.  In addition, Midsummer marked St. John's Eve, which was widely celebrated.  Girls would light the fire and jump over it as bells rang out.  

Yes! And the german suit bells look like those old horse harness bells that would have been used to warn people of the approach of oncoming wagons and alert potential customers that street vendors were in the neighborhood. There would have been more traffic and activity in the summer, so - more bells. 

Sometimes the things in these decks are specific to the country. If anyone ever wondered why the Stork is change or a move, or why the Little Child card in Kippers features a stork in castoff boots and is associated with spring, this article clears that up:

 https://web.archive.org/web/20120306072427/https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/02/us-germany-spring-storks-idUSTRE82119620120302

 

 

We have to step out of our own time and place. It makes the cards more interesting, IMHO.

 

 

[HOLMES]

Lol, i clicked the link 3 times, waiting for something to load til i realized the picture was just below. 

 

Apologies andy. 

I decided to just read the book , and not read the website with your deeper writings.  For i figured after i was done the book i would look at the website for more intermediate stuff not covered in the book.

So i just went by "summer revelries"  

Forgive me i should pay more attention

 

I do like the description you gave just now.  About st john eve.  That is an experience i haven't seen, let alone had

I go wiki it

I see in canada it is called st jean bapiste day. One would think i would know it. Alas i never learned french. Nor was it practiced  in my region 

I wonder if you experienced it over where are . Your description sounds actual 🙂

 

Thanks katrinka. I been searching german summer bells and end up with a big church bell with the dark mustached name on it. 

So did a search for german playing cards and for schellen.

There was not much images for summer bells, getting mostly christmas images.

Your description of the harness with bells helps

 

But yes i feel i understand the bells more and recognize what they look if i had the primal lenormand  for example

 

Now i have pang of sadness for not having that memory.

 

[joy]

Hey @HOLMESthis might help too with regards to 'Schellen'. In Germany/Austria and Switzerland in Summer farmers move their cows to the alps. In order to find them - as they are roaming free - they put a bell around their necks.

[HOLMES]

That certainly does. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I see in canada it is called st jean bapiste day. One would think i would know it. Alas i never learned french. Nor was it practiced  in my region 

I wonder if you experienced it over where are . Your description sounds actual 🙂

 

Not for a number of years, no.  And not in the UK.  Growing up, I spent a considerable time with family out of the UK.  St. John Eve (Midsummer) was observed there with bonfires and the belief that the Heavens open for three nights, as well as several beliefs regarding 'faeries'.  I believe Midsummer was observed in the UK.  But not that I have seen.  I do remember May Eve and Lammastide celebrations in the UK - but we lived in a rural area, and stuff like that was observed. 

 

Schellen is the type of bell usually seen as Joy posted.  

[Guest]

23 hours ago, katrinka said:

We have to step out of our own time and place. It makes the cards more interesting, IMHO.

This. So very much. It’s what has kept the PL so fresh for me. 

[HOLMES]

The bells aka diamond was a bit more of a struggle i just assumed it was work , then money , then fortune, then throw in everyday stress in there. 

I gravited to andy b german/swiss meanings on page 257/258.

Finally it was summer that helped me understand the bigger picture for in the summer you work like heck, but also enjoy life. 

 

The birds was a hard one to understand for both description for the card talks of stress or anmounments. 

Yet in today world on fb it can be like the birds can turn on you like that. 

 

I figure coffin would be naturally in the clubs.. but death can lead to inheritance coming your way. Or thst your partnership disolved so it is your own money that is used, to your business is over. 

 

The jack of diamonds ruling the scythe shows a man who likes to risky situation.. or worse case.. he is cain who killed able in the fields.

 

One thing that andy points out is the book used to be named grimoire so i spent time googling that. And considering how it can fit into fortune.. it comes to education, and power.

 

I love the advisors energy behind king and queen. Finally the sun being the ace of diamonds is brilliant. Like the embodiment of summer itself.

 

I am the one who find the clover and a little fortune with it. It is fast and sudden so i should make the most of it.  

The birds notice my good fortune and judge what i do with it. Perhaps if i go  on hiatus i can reduce their power over me. They announce to the other bird what i do. 

I find the key to open the door.. it was a door i didnt want to break so it brings me victory, i have more room..and  its freed up my energy so i make a copy and move on.

The coffin is upon me.. what crappy luck. I lost my best friend and business partner. I sure hope i dont get sick from all this work. 

He leftvme his grimoire which i add to my own.. at the back of it is his steel making techique yay me. 

However this young man wants me to risk my fortune on this farm. And wants me to go in there and talk about it. I had to best him down and run for it.

Walking along. There is 2 roads ahead . You there old woman. ( who says i am old, monthy pythons holy grail).

What path should i take? Can you advise me please.

So i take the road less yraveled for i am a strong person and want to get there fast

Once there i pay a man to teach me to fish and advise me where to fish. 

He is no ordinary fisherman. He is the king of the sea!! Acquired his knowledge through a lifetime of experience doing hard work.

Iade enough money to buy me own boat and sail the high seas looking for my whale. 

On the warmest best day of summer i look back on how my fortune has changed.. but i can count on the hot sun for goid fortune.

Darn it i got sun burnt. I dtsyed outside too long. But ger what a day. The bells were ringing. The music was great and the food was best long live grandfather sun.

 

[HOLMES]

The spades being leaves is easy for me for leaves fall in the fall. 

Getting the order in my mind down 

What i am having trouble with is the swiss/german inserts describe the king and queen as young, while the books describe the king of diamonds as older

It could be the french tradition as both rana and alexandre describe mature man for king of spades.. 

And a mature woman in alexandre book for queen of spades. 

Course i just realize it is because to them the king of spades is the king of clubs being mature to andy b book.

So here i have to be careful what path i am going to learn which will be andy book. 

Ok i got it , when i get to clubs will be the mature man and woman vs rana george and alexandre style

[HOLMES]

Now that i studied a bit and thought about it. I wouldn't mind getting a modern lenormand with green spades or leaves. Just in one of my decks. 

 

Caitlin calls this path of service but andy speaks to the virtue of happiness. I would tend to agree for though life goes on,the harvest has come in, the tribe has gathered enough food to last the winter so we can celebrate once. 

There is time to do other things so i would look at most of these cards after the harvesting and canning work has been done.

 

Since most of work is done there is time for social visting in the garden, visting your grand children. Perhaps even getting home to your family after a long summer abroad  working.

 

One thing about the diamonds was intermediate stress.  I would say as it is a femine suit that you are now making long plans to get through the winter.. as "winter is coming" 

 

I will say i never understood growing why the park was such a big deal as i didn't go outside but now i understood its significance like in mary poppins. 

It was such luxary to be able to host garden events in your estate so it would be a sign of well being and acquired wealth.

 

I am looking for longevity to keep my lands protected in the tower. I am reflecting on what to do with my lands over the coming months to prepare for winter and even next year. 

I don't trust the letter til i open it as it could be a warning of thing to come, or good things. Many times thibgs aren't what we want. 

The park will be good times for us to visit.. it is a part for the family and friends so outsiders aren't welcome. Without the letter of invition. It is only a short evebt but a lot of work goes into it.

From there i look to invest long term in the venture of the anchor. Mcdonalds in the movie the founder got their money by leasing the land. So it is all about location

From there one has to money to travel ling term over seas, it is good need. Oh sure we could be on the Titanic but that the chance one has to take to get the good news. 

From there we see children,they remind of friends we had when we were children. It also reminds us to be grateful for little things. 

The queen of spades is young lady full of hapiness. Perhaps it is because she is getting romanced by several suitors

The king of spades is a young viral man full of sexual viral energy.  He isgivibg his flowers of intent to several potential mates. 

Finalky the ace of spades talks of the lady.. it is her who keeps the tribe going. And makes the choice to have the baby so it will be born in the spring. She is the new beginng. She is the final decision.

 

[HOLMES]

I been studying the clubs.. 

Up here in this part of ontario i never saw acorns, so i looked it up and saw they used to make bread from it !

The natives americans where they must be plentiful. 

I really studied the fox , read up on fox hunt. 

 

[katrinka]

Yes. I'm inclined to think it's something they tended to do in lean times, or at least in preparation for a hard winter.
Acorns are labor intensive. You can't just pick them up and eat them like pecans. You have to grind them up and leach the tannins out, and the whole process can take a few days. 
https://www.cupcakeproject.com/how-to-make-acorn-flour-pre-thanksving/

That's why they're associated with hardship in Lenormand. Nobody's going to do all that for a little flour if there's good, plentiful food available.

[HOLMES]

Makes you wonder how they figured out to make flour,i know must be desperation, but like to think an alien visitor or alantis genius. 

 

Like jerry seinfeld said about horses, he wondered who looked at a horse and said to them selves. Wait a minute. He could be glue!

 

Thanks katrinka, that really put the acorn in petspective, especially reading about easily they could lose 2 years supplies.